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You start your post with "complete pish" and then go on to compare a multi Ballon d'Or winning striker playing in a very strong Portugal team, with a goalkeeper playing for a very poor Motherwell side in a crisis! This place gets crazier by the day.... The big difference with goalkeepers compared with outfield players is that you can't just keep changing them. What if Oxborourgh comes in and makes a couple of errors in his first game, do you go back to Kelly? Or do we see who the third keeper is and try them like you would with an outfield player? I know that at some point even a goalkeeper will need dropped, however I just don't think we're at that point yet, especially when next up we have a very inexperienced, untested rookie.

And if we're going to give him absolute pelters when he makes a mistake it's only fair we give him credit when he pulls off a good save.

The Kelly situation is a tricky one. I get the he shouldn't be dropped as captain and not good for squad but at same time if you had a striker that played 20 games and hadnt scored would you keep playing him? What really grinds me is the booing of players. I ain't an Oli Shaw fan but fact a few booed him when he came on yesterday just beggars belief

I really feel sorry for Kelly just now as his confidence totally gone and David actually makes a good case of why he shouldn't be dropped. What I will say and it's maybe been missed by folk is that he made a vital save at 0-1 when Saints player was clean through

Weird one today. I thought we played some decent football at times and seemed much more confident in defence than we have in previous weeks. Delighted that Gent and Davor had strong performances today, Gent should be one of the first names on the team sheet from now on and I’d expect to see Davor feature much more too. The mistake from Kelly at the St Johnstone goal is amateur stuff, really poor and I don’t think Obika offered much - he can hold up the ball pretty well, but that’s it eh? Absolutely murder in front of goal. The goal we score is sublime. When I was leaving today, I heard someone say “they were gutted we scored” and I’ve seen a lot of that on social media and on this thread too. I can’t get my head round that way of thinking. It’s fucking bizarre. when we punted Hammel and Alexander the players had totally downed tools, it seemed hopeless, but I don’t get that feeling with this team. They’re all up for it, I just don’t think the quality is there. There is obviously an argument that much of this team are Kettlewell signings, of course, so do we trust him with the transfer window? I really don’t know. My gut tells me that sacking SK at this stage would be a mistake, but I do think we need to be having a major conversation about how our club is being run from the top. Anyways, had wee Mika at 9/4 anytime goal scorer so I proper fucking enjoyed that one.

Im still on the fence with Kettlewell after today for a miriad of reasons. The most important is that I really want him to succeed and see us end this cycle of ditching managers every 8 months as that in itself will eventually result in a relegation. We cant keep spunking money on managers and allowing them to change the squad every window. We arent flush with cash and we need to spend it wisely in order to remain competitive. If we were detatched at the bottom and/or the players had chucked it, then I would back a change immediately as relegation would be imminent in any case. But we are not there yet. We are still in touch with the teams above us and the players, regardless of how poorly they have been playing, repeatedly go to the end for the manager. Having a habit of digging points out of nothing from nowhere is a good habit to have. The same players also produced some of the best football Ive seen us play since McGhees first spell as recently as 10/11 games ago. That said, we cant ignore the run we are on and we really really need to get a win from somewhere soon. Todays team selection, albeit somewhat enforced, was closer to what we should be looking like. We were much harder to break down and St Johnstone offered nothing until Kelly gifted them their goal. Stop doing that and you get a foundation to play from. Davor looked more than decent today and if Gent hadnt had such a good game he would have been my MOTM. He, Gent and Spencer should definitely keep their places. SK wasnt fired after Tuesday, so he wont be fired after today. I think he can still turn this around. But he needs to take some ownership for the poor decisions he has made in the last few weeks and be brave in his decision making in the next few weeks if he is to make it to the transfer window. I understand how difficult it is to drop your captain when he is a Scottish international and was a major part of your early success, but at some point you need to take the player out of the firing line before his confidence is damaged ireparably. If Oxborough is that bad then he really shouldnt be at the club. I thought SOD actually had a decent enough game today at RCB but if he is to keep his place it shouldnt be at the expense of Spencer or Gent. Once Butcher, Casey and McGinn are fit, then they should be the ones in the conversation to pick the best 3 from 6 centrebacks. If he does make it to the window then SK also needs to take ownership of transfers. There is clearly a huge question mark over Daws and what if any value he brings to the club. I wouldnt be trusting him in isolation if my job depended on it. If he gets all that right, and its a huge if, he might just get thru this. If not, he will either be gone, or we could be staring a relegation in the face.

Will this be the one we take all three points instead of one point? As always get behind the team COYW

Ouch. Obviously affected me more than I realised.

Dundee United mucked about with their keepers last season. Replaced their first choice, who lost 11 goals in 2 games, with a guy who lost 12 in the next 2. Then brought in another who lost 4 on his debut and was immediately dropped. Without having the first clue how good Oxborough is, no one can be certain dropping Kelly is a wise move.

Kelly has not been horrific. He is as frustrating as hell and has made mistakes just like every other player. But less than some, even yesterday. He has also made outstanding saves which contributed to our pitiful points total of late. But let's just ignore that fact. And nobody is saying he should not be dropped in case his feelings are hurt. As Captain and a leader and spokesman for the squad he brings qualities over and above goalkeeping, like unifying the squad which was sadly lacking under our previous managers. Also, in most folks minds, he is currently the best option we have. Changing goalkeepers at this stage could well push us closer to Championship football. Or if you really want to drop every player who regularly has "horrific" moments during matches, then I take it you will accept a team full of youth players as per the bench yesterday. Until they have a poor game. Not one player has turned in consistently good, 90 minute performances this season. In my opinion our troubles are much more serious than a goalkeeper who is going through a tough spell.

Hear what you are saying but I wasn't impressed with Obika yesterday. Big Bair actually gives loads of effort and I thought done well yesterday, cracking cross for the goal. Would be happy seeing him start and also I hope Davor keeps his place

Agree with David, Star Sail, and Denny, no doubt Kelly’s going through a very rough patch, and if he was an outfielder player he would have been “rested” by now, however dropping him at this stage for a goalie very few of us have seen much of (and the manager has overlooked for months) would be a huge gamble. Kelly is an experienced player at this stage in his career and given time and support he’ll come good.

Exactly this. Spot on. Every single player made mistakes yesterday. As they did at Dingwall and last week against Dundee. And every game before that. In reality Kelly prevents a good many of those errors turning into goals conceded. The difference is that Kelly is a target for some, and any good he does is conveniently ignored or looked upon as him "just doing his job". He did not cost us a win yesterday. I could easily argue that the inability of Biereth, Obika, Gent, Spittal, Slattery etc etc cost us the win because of their inability to score two goals between them. And I wonder if those wanting Oxborough brought in have actually seen him play. He hardly pushed his case for inclusion in his League Cup appearances. He is another that for some folk gets better the more he does not play. Not slating him, just saying that Kelly is the better keeper and the safer option. Or perhaps some folk just fancy a wee trip to the likes of Ayr and Inverness. Drop Kelly and the chances of that increase. We need to stick with him.

Look Kelly is only human at the end of the day and this has been his worst season for us maybe the upcoming break will do him the world of good folk need to cut him some slack he has gave us more points I bet than cost us. He is still a very capable goalkeeper look at the save against Celtic the other week just needs to get that confidence boost back hopefully the break will do him good. I would find it more alarming why Kettlewell hasn't played Gent and Davor more that's what folk should really be questioning.

Hit right at him. He lost us points yesterday.

I was a GK myself when I played football ( although never professionally) and I always used to get frustrated when I watched outfield players make several mistakes in a game ( misplaced passes, missed tackles, poor control) only for the finger to be pointed when one goal- keeping mistake lead to a goal. It is in the nature of their positioning on the park that makes their mistakes so much more notable. I agree with David. Kelly has been an excellent servant to the club. He is an international goalkeeper for a reason and he will have been made captain because of the positive influence he has on the squad. There is far more good than bad to consider dropping him. It will be tough for Kelly just now and he himself might actually welcome a break. Hopefully his relationship with Kettlewell is strong enough that they could have that conversation if need be. I think he is being judged harshly at the moment. Yesterday was a mistake that on another day he may have got away with. The 3rd goal at RC I thought was actually a descent reactive save. He was just unlucky that the ball landed at the feet of an RC player. Again on another night he may have got away with it.

From an objective point of view, a draw was the right result yesterday. for St Johnstone it was a must not lose game and they didn't. They came for a point and were patient in waiting for the inevitable chance via Kelly but they wouldn't have been fussy as a goals a goal irrespective of who gives them it. They played as we knew they would. Dull, reliable, solid, well organised, hard working, streetwise, and physical. In contrast we did look a bit more solid but did not seem to have any gameplan as to how to attack. I thought Gent played very well and gave us something new on the left. Davor was fine, although a little lightweight. Why haven't these 2 lads been starting? Up front though Biereth was all too often on his own. Obika didn't link up with him and was played too deep. Although he scored a cracking goal, SK is simply not getting the best out of Biereth. He has much more to offer. A must win game for us and we fell short....again. The referee was poor. He was weak and inconsistent and allowed Saints to run rings round him. Again timekeeping was inexplicable. In short a limp conclusion to a winnable run of important games. We are just papering over the cracks with late equalising goals

Casey was on crutches and was wearing a moonboot in the POD yesterday so that's a certainty. Think he said he'd be out for about six weeks.

Well, just like you and every other Motherwell fan, I've not seen much of Oxborough. But, the manager and the coaching team has. They see him every single day. And over the 18 months that he's been at the club he's rarely kicked a ball, which tells me all I need to know. I think when his contract ends he'll quietly disappear into obscurity. Would I drop Kelly? The answer is no. Because the one thing the manager has going for him right now is that the team is still together and fighting for him. Dropping Kelly, the captain, and clearly someone who is well-liked and influential in the dressing room for a keeper who has hardly played a game for us could affect that dressing room dynamic. Fans don't really think about that aspect of the choices a manager has to make. They just think "player A has been rubbish of late, punt him out the team, and get someone new in." It's never that simple, sadly. The decisions made will affect the moral and general vibe of the team and could turn players against the manager, and dropping your captain is always going to be a huge move. Dropping Kelly right now wouldn't be for "a wee spell." Doing that would basically signal the end of his Motherwell career. He wouldn't be coming back from that in all likelihood. You'd be stripping him of the captaincy, dropping him, and opening a can of worms in the wider squad that I think could cause more issues. It's a tough situation, because Kelly is definitely going through a rough spell. The manager has one of two choices to make. Drop Kelly, strip him of the captaincy, bring in a keeper that neither he nor the manager before him has considered anywhere near good enough to this point, and risk the dynamic of the dressing room being turned on its head, possibly against the manager. Or stick with Kelly, and gamble that his form will return. By doing so the manager would win the support of the players and the captain by showing that he is the type of gaffer who sticks by his players when they're going through a tough spell. That action would ensure that the squad keep fighting for him I think. So, for me, it's option number 2. And I know many fans won't agree, which is fine.

Honestly, regardless of how good or bad the Ox is...... what is the point of paying real money on a back up keeper if he cant put pressure on the number 1?? Kelly has been poor for months. His position should be up for grabs. Why the other lad has not been given a chance is beyond me. The other point is, he is out of contract in the summer. Why would he re-sign if he has spent a year & a half watching a diddy in front of him & not getting a chance?

I just wonder if changing the manager again is the answer? I know I’m in the minority with this at this point though.

Four last minute equalisers plus coming from 0-2 down in Perth to draw have certainly helped his cause. Had we lost those games then we’d be one point ahead of Livingston with them having two games on hand over us. And that’s before you take into account the last minute winner against Kilmarnock back in August. Teams scoring last minute game changing goals will always be viewed as being lucky and in our case this season I think that’s a fair accusation. But at the same time the game lasts as long as it does until the final whistle blows and we have now managed to salvage potential dropped points in the dying minutes/seconds on no fewer than five occasions this season. A total of six points snatched in the 90th + minute. That’s quite impressive and points to a good, ‘fight to the death’ mentality within the team. We also scored a last minute leveller against Celtic at Fir Park in September only to concede a winner just seconds later so there definitely is some kind of ‘never say die’ mood in this team. Our biggest problem though is that we just lack basic ability throughout the squad.

If I knew who the next manager was going to be, I might well agree, but I'm not convinced we won't be jumping into the fire if he goes. So, as long as the players continue to show fight (if hee haw else) I'll say stick with him. And I fully realise how ridiculous that sounds after 13 winless games.