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I don't often post on here but feel compelled to put down my thoughts on this somewhere to see if I'm missing something. So here are my thoughts (apologies, it's a long one): There seems to be a view from some that the club are in some dire situation and need to accept any investment we can get. This simply isn't the case as far as I can see and even if it was we could likely sell Miller and/or Bair this week and be secure financially. Given our turnover, we will always be a club running close to breakeven over the longer term and like most clubs in Scotland part of our business model will involve selling players on at a profit. There is nothing concrete in the proposed deal that suggests any of this will change. The financials of the deal from an existing shareholder perspective simply don't make sense, even with the revised terms. The valuation placed on the club of £4m can be debated but taking that as acceptable, the WS currently owns 71% of the shares (71% x £4m = £2.84m). At the end of this 6 year deal the WS own 50.1% and Wild Sheep Sports owns 47% but during this period, the WS has to invest an additional £1.35m and Wild Sheep Sports invests £1.95m. So even if at the end of the term, the club has made no progress and retains the £4m valuation, (ignoring the impact of inflation etc.) Wild Sheep Sports have a holding worth £1.88m from a total investment of £1.95m, while the WS have invested £1.35m and written off half of the loan given to the club and seen their holding go from a value of £2.84m to £2.004m. Swap out the WS for an individual investor and where is the incentive for them to accept these terms? Would an individual not simply say, if you want the club, front up the £2.84m and you can buy my shares (assuming they agreed with the £4m valuation)? Point two becomes even more ridiculous when you look at what Wild Sheep Sports get from day 1. They invest £350k, hold 8% of shares but get 3 board members (same as the WS) and have a deciding vote where there is a 4-4 tie, meanwhile should there be a requirement to plug any shortfall in the finances, the WS is still on the hook for that. In addition, if Wild Sheep Sports turn out to be a shambles and the WS want rid of them, they basically just walk away with their money back in 2 years and the only losers are the club and the WS. I struggle to believe that any other company would accept an 8% shareholder having this level of influence with such a low level of risk. Wild Sheep Sports suggest they can add value but have provided no actual details of their plans or any figures / targets. I appreciate you wouldn't share all the granular detail but simply throwing out buzzwords about "engagement" / "interaction" or whatever it is, along with teasing some documentary suggestion means absolutely nothing. There is also no suggestion of how they plan to generate a return from their investment - the obvious assumption is that they hope to increase the value of the club and sell their holding after 6 years and/or start paying dividends. Even if they did enhance the financials of the club, the valuation of the club would have to more than double for the WS to maintain the value of their holding and break even (again ignoring inflation) from their investment (current £2.84m holding + £1.35m investment = £4.19m with a 50.1% = a valuation of £8.36m) - this seems extremely unlikely. A lot of noise is being made by a number of fans suggesting that the WS have to provide some sort of counter proposal, otherwise this should automatically be accepted, which again makes no sense. This isn't like a general election where both parties put forward a manifesto and you pick the one you like. The WS is the majority shareholder currently and is the status quo, while the Wild Sheep Sports proposal is the alternative. The question is simply is the alternative an improvement on the status quo? Given the above points I would suggest this is a deal that would never see the light of day in any other business, and it seems blatantly obvious to me that the status quo, which has delivered modest profits for the club over the long term and kept us competitive in the top flight, is the much better option.

You may have a point regards how some people regard the Society and fan ownership. But that is hardly the issue here. To focus on the Society at this time deflects greatly from the real issue. In fact that deflection is exactly what the sponsor of this proposal has orchestrated. The only issue that needs focusing on immediately is that the Exec Board (fronted by a Chairman desperate to retire) has put forward a proposal lacking content which will immediately yield control of the Club to a minority Shareholder. Although in time that minority will almost certainly become a majority and lead to the demise of the Well Society. As for the three members of the Society Board who supported the proposal, I think it is telling that not one has gone on record, despite numerous requests, to outline why they came to that decision. Exactly what benefits they thought Mr Barmack would bring to the Club, and by association the fan base/Society. Why is that? If they have valid reasons, help me to understand. I am big enough to accept I may be missing something . In contrast to the other six Board Members, who released a statement explaining exactly why they voted against the plan and detailed the threat they believed it presented. Historically, the Society began well and grew at a reasonable rate, in line with the hopes of those that fought to bring it into being, and for the purpose it was created. Not perfect by all means but then what new Organisation is? Sadly over time, through several Club Board changes and aided by influences within the Society Board itself, the Society became more and more sidelined and it's manner of operation changed dramatically and secretly. And not to the benefit of Society or fans. Recent changes to that Society Board brought about a re-examination of the purpose and operation of the Society. That brought about increased resistance from the Club Board. A tightening and closer scrutiny of funds being passed to the Club plus a desire to be respected as the major shareholder being prime causes of that friction. Ironically, the exact factors many detractors of the Society, including myself, wanted addressed! And then, out of the blue, we are faced with this urgent need for outside finance, despite assurances only a couple of months ago from our Chairman that all was fine financially....no need for panic. And suddenly it is the responsibility of the long ignored Well Society to come up with an alternative should the Barmack proposal be rejected. A proposal they were shockingly not afforded the opportunity to be part of negotiating. Despite their status. Of course the Society needs to look at itself and seek improvement in several areas. Communication, Record keeping,Online presence being three that spring to mind. But progress has been made and without the influence of certain individuals I believe that improvement will continue and gather pace. But the issue before us right now is the Barmack proposal. That proposal is what we must not be distracted from looking at in detail. Despite Mr McMahon's best attempts

The cynic in me thinks that in trying to achieve that goal it is also the intent to access whatever monies the Society has amassed from fans. Raid the piggy bank one last time. Reasoning 1. Insist the Society agrees to just about match the Wild Sheep funding over a number of years. An annual commitment well in excess of current annual subscriptions. End result? A reducing bank balance and eventually insufficient funds to meet commitment and/or effect a buy out.. What then? 2. Insist the Society agrees to write of a huge amount of monies owed to it by MFC. On the face of it an act of good faith by WS to improve the MFC Balance Sheet. In reality, a stripping of Society assets. Funds gone forever. It is really so obvious.

Can you, or anyone else for that matter, actually document clearly what Erik is proposing? I mean, his actual plans? That's a serious question. I've asked the man himself and been told that it's unfair to expect a plan with solid deliverables, projected return on investment, and so on. His reply basically goes along the lines of "vote for me first, then you can see what I end up doing."

St Mirren have team shades, not colours?

Liam Kelly was a good goalkeeper and a good servant for us during his three and a half years here. When he came at first he was a huge upgrade on what we had at the time and played a big part in keeping us up that season and was excellent for the next two campaigns. His form definitely fell away during last season and I was never comfortable with him being club captain if I’m honest, but he did well for us overall. Best of luck to him at Rangers.

I wish him well, gave us good service and yes wasn't great last season but gave us money for him being euro squad

I understand, and agree, with all of what you say. It almost makes me think the end game was always to get rid of the society, one way or another.

I quite get that Denny. The Society Board has other fish to fry at the moment, but maybe no harm in releasing a short statement to Members to reiterate 1) What the difference is and 2) Very roughly, what the soon to be released Strategy will cover and/or what it won't. This could be done in 2 paragraphs and might head off some trouble at the pass.

The problem is that I think people against the proposal are quite clearly able to identify at least one clear reason why they have arrived at their view. I have yet to see anyone who supports the proposal offer anything factual that supports that view. It seems very much like they've heard "Netflix" and that's enough. The club board themselves have stated we are not in some dire financial situation and have shown the figures that demonstrate the club is making a (modest) profit over the medium / long term. There will clearly be fluctuations year-to-year in there but that is to be expected in most businesses. The fans I have seen in favour of the proposal also seem to suggest it is on the Well Society to improve the commercial side of things for the club, which is not the case. The club has people in place who are paid a salary for that very purpose. All I would expect any proposal from the Well Society to address would be how they believe they can build up more of a buffer to cover short-term shortfalls or assist with certain capital expenditure (likely to be facilities etc.). As a slight aside, the EB plan reminds me in many ways of a South Park episode that featured the Underpants Gnomes... perhaps a niche reference there though...

The folk who are demanding 'Get it done' on social media are, without exception, unable to give one single concrete example of how EB plans to bring money into Motherwell, but they like the sound of his magic beans, so it's all good. They also labour under the misapprehension the Well Society are/have been running the club, so it's entirely their fault we haven't signed Haaland and won the league. The one good thing about all that is, they don't have a vote.

Not a bad opening set of fixtures. Early season is a decent time to get Rangers. They won't have any momentum and will probably integrating new players that are new to the league. They will also be under a lot of pressure to get off to a good start. Also might not even be at Ibrox... Other three games should be looking for 3 points in all of them. Biggest problem is we will be playing in THAT strip!

Celtic and rangers over the Xmas / new year period. Takes me back to the McLair festive double win against them both 40yrs ago.

Haven't spoken to anyone yet who can answer that but the romance of some American investing in the club has certainly swayed a few people who aren't looking beyond the headline grabber into the actual detail of the offer. The same ones also seem to think that we need investment at any cost (thanks Mr McMahon)and as his is the only offer on the table we should just take it. I have a few 'Well supporting mates in that group and have done my best to convince them it's a bad deal with some success, but I think until the WS come out with their plan some are still going to think that EB's proposal is the way forward. Hopefully that will give me the ammunition I need to convince the remaining EB fanboys in my circle otherwise. Its actually frightening how many of them had no real knowledge of the WS, how many members it has and how much funds it has raised. Pretty sure I'm not alone in that.

The Executive Board is dividing the fanbase through their underhand actions, and it’s clear to me that's what McMahon wants as it allows him to succeed. If Barmack is successful, he inherits a divided club, and the Well Society dies. That outcome will create a very real threat to the long-term existence of the club as we know it. Good luck, Erik! Unfortunately, I don't think a lot of fans realise this or are capable of figuring this out, or are perhaps just too selfish to care, but that's what happens when you mix morons (see Facebook/Twitter) with democracy.

Absolutely - wasn't criticising you. Just that when they have talked about safeguards in the past, the weasel words "very very unlikely" were later used.

If the Loan is repaid in full, or entirely written off, would the WS retain the power their Charge held over Fir Park provides? The record at Companies House states the Charge is in place due to monies owed to the Society by MFC. If no loan exists.....? The Charge was put in place following suggestions from the fan base in an attempt to protect Fir Park. in 2016 from memory, registered by A Burrows. My understanding is that, as first charge holders, the WS has to agree to any outside funding being secured by a further mortgage over Fir Park. If our Charge is discharged does that free up a Board under Barmack's control to secure funding using Fir Park as Security? That position needs investigated, but has hardly been mentioned.

Seems that Murrayfield will almost certainly be the venue for our game? I never go to Ibrox but I’d quite fancy a jaunt through there to watch us skelp the h*n.

Hearts are guaranteed a Europa League Playoff spot so our game against them will be the Sunday.

Bobby JFK bingo

Hopefully we can announce our new keeper soon!

The club is not in need of external investment because of the actions of the Well Society ( it could be argued its not in need of external investment at all). It is in need of investment because of the way the club has been run by the Executive Board. The very same board who have set up the Well Society to be kept at arms length and have as little influence over decision making as possible. Now that the new Society Board is flexing its muscles a little they dont seem to like it and are trying to force through a deal which will effectively end fan ownership. I would suggest we need a new Executive Board who will support the new CEO in doing what they claim outside investment can achieve. That way we keep ownership of our club, grow revenue streams and allow the Society to kick on with its proposals over how to improve membership.

Kelly to the rangers is almost confirmed.

I have the fear a large section of the society membership have never really believed in fan ownership and have at best viewed it as a stop gap until something, anything, better came along. Given three members of the society board voted for this, coud their views be more representative of the wider membership than we want to admit? I've had this concern from the minute the society voted to hear the proposal. Now we have the potential of this whole thing turning in to a unmitigated disaster no matter what way the vote goes - it should never have got this far.

The great thing about democracy is it gives everyone a voice. The terrible thing about democracy is that a vote from someone based on the colour of your tie counts the same as a vote from someone who has spent 5 years researching key issues.

Hey you! What's Phase 2?!

I find it really frustrating that some people don't see, or refuse to see, the obvious differences between the roles of the two Boards. The WS Board were established to grow Society Membership thus amassing funds for the use of the Club when required, to protect those funds, to work with the Club and also independently to promote Community involvement and awareness. As majority Shareholders they should also oversee the work of the Exec Board, working harmoniously in Partnership. The Exec Board exist to oversee ALL operations of the Football Club. Just as in every other Football Club. They have responsibility for all aspects of the day to day running of the Organisation, the financial wellbeing of the Club, safeguarding the future of the Club and working with various Authorities to ensure that all requirements are met. That is why the Club Board employ a CEO (of whom I have high hopes) and qualified Accountants in addition to a Football Manager and a coaching team. Working In Partnership with the Society Board who should be viewed as an asset and not a hindrance. Distinct responsibilities. Different roles. a partnership. Essential to enable both bodies to function effectively. And yet so many have been taken in by a strategy asserting that it is up to the Society Board, at the drop of a hat, to come up with a Business Plan detailing external investment plans for a Football Club currently under the Leadership of Jim McMahon and his Board. To essentially carry out perhaps the important role of that Club Board.....maintaining financial stability. And remember, our Chairman has placed no such pressure on Mr Barmack to present such a detailed or ambitious plan. Perhaps no surprise given that it is under his stewardship that we have seen such turmoil on and off the pitch for a good number of years. He has successfully created an atmosphere of fear and urgency, all to enable him to ride off into the sunset. And aided by one or two who have mysteriously appeared out of the blue on here and on P&B pushing the same corrosive agenda. As a direct result of that strategy, expectations of the WS Board have gone through the roof. Any Business Plan they are asked to produce should be focused on how they plan to grow the Society, leaving the Club Board to carry out the duties which they were elected to perform. If some of the Club Board are unable or unwilling to carry out those duties they should move on. I do believe securing fresh investment would be of great benefit to Motherwell Football Club. Of course it would. But I also believe that a forward thinking, dynamic Club Board under new leadership can secure such investment and address inefficiencies within the Club. Without bringing about the demise of the Well Society and all it stands for.

Bravo sir! This is my view entirely. Not sure why everyone cant see this.

I like playing them during the Christmas period. It's a good atmosphere compared to a dull Sunday in October or February. This season is the toughest the league has been in a long time with no Livi or Accies. The games against County, St Johnstone and the Dundee clubs are all 6 pointers from day one.

Have go agree with that. I think the longer this goes on the worse it's going to get so it's important that the WS get their proposals out there sooner rather than later. Appreciate they're all volunteers and have put an enormous amount of work into it but the longer this drags on I fear the division and acrimony amongst our fans will only get worse. I only hope what they do eventually publish blows what EB is proposing out of the water.

From reading posts on here, and on P & B and certainly on FB it seems that the "discussion" has now reached a stalemate stage with polarised views. That said, there have been some very decent posts and a lot of interesting research has been carried out. Sadly, some acrimony is creeping in to the considerations, especially on FB. Entrenched division will help no-one, least of all our club. I suspect little will change now until the Society publishes its long awaited Strategic Plan and the Wild Sheep vote takes place. Lets be patient with the Society meantime.

Ross Co at home.....get three points on the board before the 12 week winless streak. Ooops, wrong login.

Can bet I’ll be attending everything next season and I’ll have some comments regards to our kits and how we need to stop fanning about every other year. Just do one home kit lasts two seasons in our traditional colours and change the collar/trim or whatever every couple years.