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The Robinson thread is the most obvious one that springs to mind. Your pal was getting it tight so you decided that was that, discussion over, which was baffling given it was practicality the only thing posters wanted to discuss at the time and the forum was otherwise dead. Around the time of the P & B mass exodus if I remember correctly. Back on topic - to be clear - I think it would be an absolute travesty if the Bois group were to be lost to the Club, wider fans, and the community. Far from sneering, I have lot of respect for what they have achieved, but, sometimes blunt criticism is deserved and is actually very necessary. They seem to have lost all sense of self policing that was evident in the past and have crossed the line on one too many occasions. The first thing is admitting when that happens. The lack of self awareness, and the "we are the victim" narrative gives me the boak. As much as us "outsiders" might be criticised for not being in the know, there are clearly some who are so close that they can't, or simply will not, see the wood for the trees. Support the team and don't act like wee dicks, it's not that difficult.

i may have got a little excited but it’s hard, we don’t get to quarters often these days.

David and The Riddler talking nonsense again. At least we're still allowed to debate this topic, that's a change for you David when the debate isn't going the way you would like. I've given the Bois as a group plenty of praise in the past and acknowledged all of the good things they do. In fact I've yet to see one person who has offered criticism that hasn't. However, the narrative that the group is trying to push that they are some sort of hard done by innocents is simply not true.

Another factor to consider is that, while most people on this forum refer to the end section as a monolithic group, I’m not entirely convinced that’s the case. Whenever I’ve ventured up to that section to soak in some of the atmosphere, there is indeed a core group of lads at the very front, but the faces I’ve seen in the middle to the back of the section, and around that area, vary considerably. They also vary in age. I’ve seen very young lads who appear to be around 15, as well as older guys doing their best to lead the proceedings. My belief is that, while there’s an element of organisation concerning the drums, chants, and displays we see within the stadium, I don’t think we can hold the collective responsible for what happens outside of that. Once everyone leaves the stadium, I’d say that everyone is responsible for their own actions. For example, the section is known to sell scarves, t-shirts, and so on to help fund the banners and displays. What’s to stop me and three of my mates from buying some of the merchandise, showing up to the game, loitering at the back of the section, and then heading out after the game wearing the merchandise, all hyped up on adrenaline from a good performance, and deciding we want to cause trouble in a pub or have a go at some opposition fans? Would the guys who lead the chants and hold the drums be held responsible for that? The above theoretical situation could easily occur without me or my mates having ever really met the group as a whole. It’s for this reason that I believe the individuals involved in trouble in surrounding pubs and so on need to be held accountable as individuals. If they break the law and are charged and found guilty, then no one can complain if and when stadium bans are issued. Comparisons with the Green Brigade are, I believe, off the mark. As mentioned above, I’ve stood at the back of that East sStand section and in the section next to it and have heard very little in terms of political chanting. I’ve never seen a Palestinian flag, and apart from some jabs at the police, I don’t really see or hear much to be concerned about. My viewpoint is that I would hold the group as a whole responsible for planned in-stadium chants and banners, absolutely. That’s something they collectively work on and deliver as a whole. Incidents outside the stadium? Not for me. And I’m not saying those incidents didn’t happen. I wasn’t there, I didn’t see them. I’m just saying that those incidents should see the individuals responsible held accountable. Surely no one can expect the end section organising group to be held responsible? Regarding the recent boycott situation, I’ll reiterate my point that I believe any fan charged with a football-related offence should be suspended by the club, and then banned if they are found guilty by the courts. If charges are dropped, then the ban should be lifted. That’s based on the club’s actions being taken on the basis of the criminal charges. If the club has banned someone for an in-stadium situation that perhaps doesn’t require police action, then fair enough. That’s a different matter. Another question that's slightly separate I have is what qualifies as a “football-related” incident? Is there a specific set of parameters that define this somewhere? If I get into a fight with someone outside a pub on a Tuesday afternoon, it seems that I’m dealt with differently by the law compared to if I do the same outside a football ground on a Saturday evening, correct? When is the cut-off point? Two hours after a game finishes? At what point does the individual causing issues shift from being a “football fan” to just being a guy?

Folk acknowledge and support the good things that the Bois bring to games. Long may it continue. Perth last week being a great example of the atmosphere and support they can provide. Drum included. And the community work they have driven through various initiatives over the years. I have not read one poster decrying those contributions. Quite the opposite. But what I do see are a few, no matter what is reported and no matter what people who witnessed incidents say, refusing to acknowledge that the Bois actions at times are over the top and on occasion a throw back to the intimidation and violence of years past. Any mention of the incident in Dundee (which did happen), the trashing of a pub in Kilmarnock (which did happen), the street battle in Kirkcaldy (which did happen) or the threatening of a female Well supporter at Dingwall (which did happen) are met with 'That did not happen' or ' Get the facts straight'. To be clear, I and the people with me witnessed three of those examples, and a mate witnessed the fourth. No-one can deny pyrotechnics are an issue as well. Or does that not happen either? It may well be a small minority who are causing the trouble (I genuinely believe it is) but sadly the whole group then comes under the spotlight. If some have wrongly come to the attention of the Police and the Club have been involved in that, then that is wrong and needs addressed. As a separate issue. The fact the Bois are supported by some who are in complete denial and/or have influence within the Well Society only makes matters less likely to change and provides encouragement to continue the nonsense.. And it's not an age thing either, so let's knock that lie on the head straight up.. Another tactic used to deflect from the fact that there are issues which need sorted. Back to what I understand was an incident free Perth. There was a huge Police presence around the stadium and a large number of Stewards inside. May always be the case at St Johnstone of course, but from memory it was a lot more than usual. Interesting to see what police numbers turn up at Aberdeen. Are Motherwell now High Risk?

Man, the sheer bitterness from some of our fans towards a segment of the younger support is actually embarrassing. "You can do all the food drive an bucket collection you want but people aren't daft" Fucking hell.