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You clearly weren’t at Perth if you think that.

Took a night off to digest that yesterday and offer thoughts when less emotional. Firstly what a great away support yesterday. Large in numbers, but also started the game in good voice. Much better than the team. Couldnt really argue much with the starting line up due to injuries and differing levels of fitness, but it wasnt long before the same old mistakes reared their ugly head. Slow ponderous possession. Wing backs way too deep to help an overun midfield and literally zero secure possession to build any play from. The worrying thing for me was the body language of some of the players. Something has changed and some of them clearly look like they no longer believe what the manager is telling them. Others look like they dont understand what they are being asked to do and as a result you get the impression of a team that isnt trying. I dont believe that to be the case, but its very difficult to give your best if none of the building blocks are there to allow you to do so. Felt really sorry for Kai Andrews yesterday. He was having a poor game no doubt. But he is one of the few actual footballers we have at the club and he was left cruelly exposed yesterday with little or no support. Hooking him felt harsh, and I felt there were other options that could have been explored to support him rather than remove him from the game. Thought the one bright spot in the first half was Nicholson. I had forgotten what a good footballer he is. Hopefully he can build up his fitness and become an integral part of the team in the second half of the season. Second half was a bit better, was just a shame Nicholson couldnt last the 90 minutes as it would have been nice to have seen him and Slattery on the pitch together but clearly they need their minutes carefully managed to prevent any relapse. Overall, a depressingly predictable performance and result which reduces the second half of the season to a scrap towards safety. The supports patience with the manager is clearly wearing thin and he will have to dig out some results in the next few weeks if he is going to avoid it all turning a bit toxic. Our league position keeps him safe for now, but if we get dragged down into the battle for the play off place, the wolves will rightly start to circle. He needs a tactical re-think or a big window (or both) to stall the immediate decline in our fortunes until he can get our better players back fit and into the first team. If he does that he will survive. If he doesnt, then this happy clapper will have to admit its time for him to go.

The support certainly made it feelings clear at the end of the game yesterday but I don't think he has lost the support. I know that it is unpopular to focus on it but this team are currently sitting in the top half of the league. Results cannot be that bad if that's where we are. Motherwell were one of only four teams to make it to the semi finals of the league cup , the top 3 teams in the country holding the other 3 places. It would be a very brave board that would sack a Motherwell manager with that track record in any season We were one of ( I think) only two top division teams that drew Premier league opposition away from home in the he Scottish Cup in this round. We are out, Kilmarnock are also out. We have no right as a support to expect that a victory yesterday was a given. Of course Kettlewell is feeling the pressure. He and his team were booed off yesterday in a season where he has lost his best player to injury and but for a few decisions going against him in recent weeks ( Rangers at home for example) could be sitting in an even stronger position in the league . He has a budget that is a fraction of most teams in the league. I think he has a right to feel harshly judged. The fans have a right to withdraw their support if they choose to do so but I hope they do so with an element of perspective and realism being taken into account.

I fully agree with everything you have said we are on the cusp of Alexander Sligo vibes if we are not already there. Like yourself I can handle playing utter mince but getting something out it but we are not we look like we have no idea what we are doing on the pitch due to the terrible style if you can call that. If you have bad injury problems then you address it look at players you have and play to the strengths of the players you have to put on the pitch Kettlewell doesn't do this he still plays the same way as he did last week and the week before with the same results if not worse. It's a broken down record same old and I do think the players are rudderless lost faith in Kettlewells management.I said it before some things just run it's course and I do think that's the case right here.

Having slept on yesterdays game (not during it), I'm angrier now than I was at full time. I think he's now lost the support and if the directors don't act soon, attendances will plummet forcing their hand. Tentative signs yesterday that the players had lost faith. I can stomach dull football, but not if results are equally poor, which they are. Kettlewell has suffered horrendous bad luck (?) through injuries and I get that to some extent, but his reaction to that has been less than impressive. His summer signings are now coming under the spotlight for different reasons and many are found to be wanting. His now weekly meltdowns and yellow cards also indicate a manager under great pressure and he's not handling it well.

The conundrum is that SK will probably see us to safety again this year. Reality is we're probably only 7-10 points away from that. And if things go our way, possibly top 6 spot but I doubt it tbh. He's not getting sacked barring a disaster, but between now and the end of the season the board really need to decide what we are as a football club. Are we a club that is happy trudging by each season, picking up enough points in the league and making up the numbers in the cups? Or do we need to be more than that, giving fans something to get excited about? And yes, you can have both. My worry is we limp by to the end of the season and extend SKs deal. I do appreciate the positive aspects of SKs reign, but I just don't see that we're going anywhere under him now - he steadied a sinking ship and has taken us as far as he can, but now its gone stale and fans are dissipating... fast. We preach about being a community club - so give the community a club they believe in. It's getting harder and harder with each passing week at the moment, especially away from home, it's fucking woeful stuff. This is almost a copy & paste of GAs tenure.

Today it looked like we had no clue how we were supposed to be set up. Not defensively because there were huge gaps, not compact at all. Not flooding the midfield because we were totally out numbered time after time there. Not attacking/hi press mode because two forwards were isolated with very little support and left to chase after hopeless hoof balls. So WTF was the plan??? I really really don’t want to jump on the new manager merry go round again but SK needs to show some sort of willingness, soon, to be flexible in his approach to games and play the system that best suits the players at his disposal at any given time and at least try to play football because his negative hoofball approach is not working so if we are going to get beat I’d rather we got beat playing football.

That's the $64000 question. We've certainly got the players capable of doing that, whether Mr Kettlewell takes the reigns off and let's them is another matter. I just feel that confidence looked very low yesterday and we need a good performance and a win to give the team and fans a lift. Maybe a couple of new faces might provide the spark we need.

I wasn't. But that doesn't change my opinion. Being booed off the park after a very poor result doesn't necessarily translate to loads of fans turning against him. And I'm not the only person who has said the same on here over the last 24 hours Ps. I knew I would get the laughing emoticons but it's no biggie. I've been supporting Motherwell for decades and I don't boo players or the manager - Id rather back the team when we are struggling

Yes, I was talking to a Rangers fan of my acquaintance about Lennon Miller and what would be his best move when he leaves Motherwell and he contrasted LM's development via his number of games with us with Bailey, who was supposed to be as promising but has just warmed the bench for a couple of years and whose career has stagnated. I think Lennon's best move may be to the continent, like Lewis Ferguson.

Nobody knows where we’ll end up, though. Let’s say we lose this weekend, and Hibs manage a win away at County. Suddenly, we’d drop from 5th to 6th. Would the manager be sacked for that? If so, I’d have some serious questions for the club. Chief among them would be: who’s taking over? I’d assume there’s someone better lined up, ready to step in and make an immediate difference? Because for a club like ours to sack the manager while sitting in the top six would be absolutely baffling. Given all the hand-wringing over a supposed “financial gap” during the summer, I’d also want to know the cost of letting the manager—and presumably his coaching staff—go mid-season. Now, if we were down in 11th, fair enough, that’s a different conversation. But in the top six? Is that really where we’ve set the bar for managers at Motherwell? Have we reached the point where making it to a cup semi-final and being in the top half of the table doesn’t guarantee job security? If so, I’d seriously question the judgement of those making these decisions. For me, it’s about keeping our heads above water, and seeing how things improve once our key injured players are back in the fold. When the season’s over, by all means, let’s reflect on what worked and what didn’t. But making drastic changes mid-season? That should only ever be an absolute last resort.

The same people who tried to flog the club to a snake oil salesman.

It's not even the loosing of the games it's how we are loosing them from the off I have no idea what point Kettlewell is trying to do when it's repeat after repeat after repeat. I for one will accept playing utterly bad however putting in a shift actually looking like we have done something but now after the games you coming away thinking Christ we never had a shot until 60mins and really never started trying til the 80th when the game is more or less lost. If it was just once then fine but it's happening again and again so no matter how anyone looks at it something has to change but I know he isn't getting the sacked and he isn't going to change what he is doing on the park. I genuinely don't even know what we are trying to do on the park anymore I don't know what to call It other than a plethora of swear words lol.

Regarding the first part, surely it's less "whether", more "how long does he get to show it"? That's 2 years at the helm now and he turned around our fortunes when he came in. Kudos for that - absolutely. When SK came in, he made a big thing about going back to basics, doing the basics right, then adding in layers after. What were the layers and when were they supposedly introduced? For me, we have gone backwards in the last 18 months. I don't buy the "but we're sitting 5th" argument. We will be where we will be at the end of the season, and on recent showing it won't be 5th. It worries me if we are accepting of a good start, then failing to build on it but "its okay because we have enough in the bank". That's not the attitude I want from those running my club. I am completely accepting that we will lose games and go on bad runs, but how we rectify that and improve is what will define us season on season. I'm not seeing anything that suggests a collective or sustainable improvement, or even an attempt at that, over the last 18 months - its been treading water in the league while the product on the park goes to sh1t.

It's been a long time since I've been as disappointed in motherwell as I was last night I usually keep the head but we are honestly shit. The players after yesterday showed how much respect they have for our club and our fans and honestly every single one of them Kettlewell included can pick up their coats on the way out and I'd ask them not to darken the door of fir park again. Honestly pitiful. My highlight was I fell asleep in the second half because it was that poor and I was ill the worst part was when my friend woke me up to endure more of it. I don't care what we do next week or the rest of this season I want a clear out and those players were so bad I'd put them all in jail if I could and throw away the key. A disgrace to a man. No passmarks. It's a good laugh isn't it

A broken clock is right twice a day.....

Re last paragraph, football fans in general don't think like that...they don't see big picture, injuries budget etc I was gutted yesterday but until we get some players back we can't really judge him We saw how good Nicholson and Slattery could be yesterday but how can we play through the lines when it's boys like Davor in there...even the boy Andrews probably got a shock yesterday at the physicality up here. I agree with a previous poster, he seems a personable guy and cares unlike ga, for example , who struck me as someone who underestimated it up here and had 2 chances to beat a LOI team and couldn't manage it. That's us out to Morton and St j in 2 years tho, so maybe we just ain't that good.

Right own up.....who has hacked MJC's account? 🤪🤪

A Football managers job is results driven, you could be the nicest man on the planet, all the players, fans, board etc think you are wonderful but if you don't get the results you will be unemployed. Yes there are mitigating factors, re injuries etc that hamper his team selection but he has shown no sign of learning from his mistakes, changing the way we play to suit the players we have available, and basically competing in games. Yesterday was a shambles from the kick off, no shape to the team, no desire to compete and get forward, no leadership against a team who to be honest are brutal, hardly scoring goals, and who had not won in 9 previous games. SK has shown he is not able to respond in a game, change the tactics, play players in their best positions, etc, we need a manager who can.

Good post grizzly,the big issue is definitely how he sets us up,he's persisting with a failing system that's playing more into the oppositions hands by the week.the last few away games have been dreadful and it's like watching a carbon copy from the game before.kettlewell never seems to learn anything about the opposing teams despite playing against them so regularly,it's the same starting formation,in game tactics and negative approach,why don't we ever change things before a ball is kicked and look to exploit weaknesses in other teams.if you were scouting us as the opposition,you could write your report on the back of a stamp.its mind boggling that between kettlewell and the experience of frail that they can't see the issues that are in front of them.playing st johnstone again so soon,i can't wait too see the approach we take to that game,if it's same again then that will tell us everything about the manager.

We’d have done much better today if Connolly had been on the bench.

There's no point in repeating many of the above comments with which I agree, and so I'll highlight a few other thoughts after today's debacle. On paper our line up seemed reasonable given our injuries although playing Maswanhise out wide and isolated from Vale was a big mistake. I was a bit disappointed that 16 year old Jack O'Connell was named as substitute goalie. I quite get that it may have been difficult to source another keeper at short notice though. OK it was unlikely that he'd be called upon but potentially chucking on a 16 year old in goals in a cup tie? Really. It came as no surprise to me to and some others, whatsoever, that West Ham recalled Hegyi due to lack of game time. We were expecting exactly that. If we could see that why couldn't management? A lack of planning. Early days and although Mair didn't have much to do he didn't inspire confidence with cross balls and fumbled one. Could he have done better at the goal? Its the first time I've seen Kai Andrews but he looked a little boy lost today. Too early to judge a very young player but was he a panic knee jerk signing? Our gameplan, if it could be called that, defied belief. I'm no tactician but constantly firing high balls down the throat of 2 huge central defenders is ever only going to end one way. Talking of defences, our central defence needs completely, and I mean completely, revamping for next season, maybe Gordon aside. No manager is going to have 100% success with signings but it seems to me that SK made more than a few errors last summer and some of his choices & decisions are now looking to be mistakes. A point made by a few posters before. Management and players let down our big travelling support badly today and they won't forget it in a hurry.

Although I haven't seen recent away games before today I thought that the biggest difference today was that St Johnstone worked far harder than us especially when not in possession. They got in our faces, swarmed all over us and closed us down. We sat off them and just didn't do that. Their attitude was far far better than ours. Our lads lacked self belief and motivation for the most part. That's down in large part to management.

This is a huge part of the problem that we have. Lack of worthwhile possession puts the back line under constant pressure. This leads to the guys at the back making mistakes. Keep the ball better and play as much of the game as possible on your own terms in the opposition half and the defence will make fewer mistakes.

For me, neither league position or the poor run of results would affect the majority of the support. What has however provoked the reaction is the dire set ups week in week out. Very little attempt to change whats clearly not working. Not even threatning the opposition. The manner of play & the bad results is what is going to spell the end for kettlewell

Where to begin. Start with the positives: great to see a big travelling support and commendable that they generally stuck with the team until the final whistle when they ( rightly) showed their displeasure at the performance. Sam Nicholson and Callum Slattery looked like football players and hopefully they will have more to offer as their fitness improves. The big negative for me is the way we start games. It is so passive. Today was a Scottish Cup game with a big away support and the team were once again really flat. This needs addressing because it sets the tone of the game and it is happening too often. Regarding Kettlewell past, present and future. He has proved to be the right man for us to this point. Keeping us in the division twice, a League Cup Semi Final and a top 6 berth in the league are proof of this even if there has been disagreement on the style of football on the way through. 9 injuries today are significant. A squad with limited resource cannot absorb that kind of set back without it affecting performance. It does not make the performance today acceptable but neither can it be ignored. The big misconception about the future is that there is a magic bullet somewhere out there that is going to fix things. There is not a single football team out with Celtic that plays good football in Scotland. Teams may show flashes of decent play but generally the league serves up mediocre semi professional tripe every week that passes as entertainment because of the emotional connection we have with our team. St Johnstone were rotten today, just slightly less rotten than us. Let's not kid ourselves that Valakari has them playing free flowing football. Teams up and down the country packed with journeyman pros will be serving up similar eye bleeding fare and passing it off as entertainment. Some supporters will accept it because they win this week, others will moan about how terrible their team is until all is forgotten when they win next time out. I have watched Motherwell in Cup games for 45 years and what I witnessed today, I have witnessed before, often against lower league opposition. Morton, Ayr United,Albion Rovers,Raith Rovers, Mypa, Stjarnaan to name but a very few. Different manager's, same outcome. If I am stupid enough to keep paying my money in the future ( as I will be)I will see it again no matter who the manager is in the coming years. There is nothing ( other than the vagueries of very short memories) to make a valid case for sacking SK as a result of today result or results so far this season. I am still gutted tonight right enough.

I think the majority of the 2000 or so Motherwell fans who were there today would support Casey if he did actually have a go at Kettlewell. in doing so they would not be excusing Casey's own abysmal performance but holding a Manager to account for what has now been dished up in four consecutive away performances. And at other times earlier in the season. As to the future if Kettlewell does leave, any new Manager will also be called out if fans are expected to suffer what we have seen in those four matches and others....... having had two years to build his own squad.. And why shouldn't he be? Like you, like many on here and in the stands I was supportive of Kettlewell when others were not so keen. As you have said, he earned leeway. Injuries, VAR decisions, the youthfulness of some players and our league position have been touted in his defence. Valid to a degree. But enough is enough. Tynecastle was bad. Rugby Park was worse. Easter Road even worse. And then today. And by the way, every team has to deal with injuries and sometimes those injuries can appear overwhelming. That's why teams have a squad and why Boards support Managers in bringing in players as cover. Nobody can deny that SK has been supported in that manner. Again that maybe brings the focus onto the nature of players recruited. I keep hoping he will try something different in an effort to pick us up. Agreed, he does change the line up from time to time but nothing changes tactically or approach wise. If the squad is incapable of changing formation then that is down to the Management team that constructed the squad. Today straight from kick off we handed the initiative to a team adrift at the bottom of the league. A team you would think more fragile than us. I had hoped he would do things differently for once. Something that would encourage me to support him a bit longer. More fool me. Does anybody really think it will be any different next week?

Think your trying too hard here mjc. Other than 91 the nancy 2 days was up there and possibly next best experience in my 40 years or so supporting us. We also had 9/10k v odense at home 9k v olympiakos 6 and7k v other teams. Yes the results disappointed as usual but it was great times. Europe is great and semi finals and finals are also great. So my thoughts are enjoy them all.

Casey was horrendous today and was rightly hooked. Casey is an old fashioned Centre Back and nothing more. Asking him to play on the right of a back three with responsibility for covering wide right and with no support from a right wing back who appears to have decided defensive duties are not for him is madness. And that is down to Kettlewell. Same applies to the left side. Every opponent we play targets those wide areas for good reason. If Casey was having a go at Kettlewell for repeatedly sending out a formation that exposes him and others, and fails week after week, then good for him.

🤣🤣🤣who wouldv thought YODO & STEELBOY both right about SK and still in the naughy corner

The fans

There are quite a few who post on both forums, you and me included, and - in my perspective - both forums are a bit different. I enjoy them both, but in different ways. The prevailing wisdom on P&B is this is largely due to the difference between a single-team forum and a multi-team forum. On P&B you are pretty much forced to interact with supporters of other teams, whether you like it or not. This moderates the behaviour of some posters, and makes others worse, but it definitely changes the overall dynamic.

Is it though David? Its probably a rough reflection of the wider support but we just don't know. Many older fans might not use the internet much and those who do might not post. Many fans do not post on here for various reasons. I suspect the demographiocs, characteristics and views of P & B patrons might be a little different to those on here. In short, we just can't be sure.

This is a great post.