capt_oats

I'm wary of veering into OF-levels of conspiracy chat however as Andy_P alludes to there's something quite odd about the way the whole McDonald thing has been singled out as being a controversy and for want of a better word the apparent "campaign" since Friday evening. For the record I think he was lucky that the ref didn't interpret it as a red card offence, I don't think there was much in it but many officials would have had no hesitation however at the same time there are plenty of other incidents of equal or greater severity that weren't given in other games and we've not had detailed analysis and recurring calls for the compliance officer to review them and it's the latter part that I have a bit of a problem with. If the compliance officer becomes aware of an incident deemed worthy of investigation then fine but the whole potential for compliance officer involvement seems to be a largely media driven issue. The way the media narrative has snowballed over the weekend is interesting in so much as the language has been very definitive, it's not he "could" have been sent of it's he "should", "it *is* a red card", "if the referee had seen it, he would have sent him off" etc. There's not really been any acknowledgement that put simply the ref didn't think there was anything in it. When it comes down to it the referee did see it, he's looking straight at it and rightly or wrongly he didn't send him off. He's clearly looking at the incident with no obstruction. From his position McDonald is in front of the defender so there's not even an argument that Donaldson would have obscured his arm going up. In a nutshell it's reasonably fair to say he saw it and didn't think it was a red card offence or for that matter was even worth stopping play for. So for the ref to change his stance from that ie: "Play on, absolutely nothing in it" to "actually that's violent conduct it should have been a red card" is a fairly dramatic escalation on the matter.

Quite. It's whataboutery but I'd think we'd have a pretty decent argument even if he does get cited seeing as the ref in the League Cup final just issued a yellow card to Bartley of Hibs for smashing Brian Graham in the face on national TV earlier today and as I mentioned earlier Skippy's red last season for a similar incident was downgraded from a red for violent conduct to a yellow for 'recklessly dangerous play' (B1©) Edit to add: As fergi4 and others have alluded to there were plenty of incidents in the game that could have been dealt with differently but weren't and I'm sure there were a ton of decisions in other games this weekend that were either incorrect or open to a different interpretation. For that reason I'd be surprised (though not really) if the compliance officer would be keen to be opening themselves up to that sort of can of worms for what in the grand scheme of things was a fairly trivial incident. Having had a wee browse through the compliance officer's notices of complaint there seem to be very few (if any) instances of "correcting" or "overruling" a ref, most seem to be incidents the official missed. This one (involving Ciftci when he was at United) is quite interesting in so much as it's a violent conduct charge however it was not proved. Link to the incident below: http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=41&newsID=14409 From 5:27 here: http://youtu.be/XXic6B7yIfU

Having just watched the McDonald incident back again on Sportscene the referee has a clear and completely unimpeded view of it. It'd seem he just didn't think it was a foul. I could be totally wrong but I was under the impression that the whole retrospective action thing was for incidents the ref either didn't see or didn't have a clear view of. Which isn't to say they won't pull him up, however if they do they'll be totally undermining the ref.

It depends on how long the respective players are likely to be out for. We know Pearson's looking at 6 weeks however Lasley's on Twitter there saying his seems to be a dead leg and will hopefully be better soon. After the Aberdeen game the next fixture isn't until 2nd April so there's a decent recovery period there. Beyond that it depends on who's actually available, how fit they are and how much they'd cost and whether they'd actually be worth it. Realistically I'd say a midfield 3 of Cadden Gomis Leitch would be more than fine as a one off, the only worry would really be if we picked up further injuries. If we were looking at players being out for the rest of the season then it'd certainly raise a question however McGhee's done well fitting Hall and Cadden into the team you'd hope that there would be scope for promoting another of the 20s if we were only looking to accommodate positions short term. Edit to add: if nothing else this would give McGhee an opportunity to look at those on the fringes of his established first XI and see if they can actually fit into the system he wants to play and how they fit into his longer term plans (or not as the case may be).

True. I could be off here but I don't think we actually scored from a set piece this season until McGhee arrived. McDonald's equaliser vs Aberdeen being the first. After that I count 12 in total from set pieces. That's 12 of 34 goals since 24th October.

By my count it's 6. 12/12/15 vs Dundee 02/01/16 vs Hamilton 09/01/16 vs Cove 23/01/16 vs Ross County 16/02/16 vs Dundee United 11/03/16 vs Dundee United

One more point on the McDonald (non-)thing. As far as I can see there was no retrospective action taken for the incident in County's cup game vs Dunfermline where Brian Graham legit clotheslined Talbot, he wasn't booked in the game and as far as I can see he was available for the replay and subsequent league matches. There's also no record on the SFA's disciplinary news page: http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&pagenumber=1 So as far as it goes if there was no retrospective action taken there then I'd be amazed if Skippy was pulled up especially seeing as he had a similar incident downgraded from red to yellow last season. http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=41&newsID=14798 Edit: Brian Graham incident at 3:24 here (with the ref looking straight at it).

Given that they rescinded McDonald's red card against St Mirren last year for a not dissimilar incident and by all accounts the referee saw what happened last night I do wonder whether they'll bother with any retrospective action. He was certainly lucky the ref didn't interpret it as a red card however I'd have thought if he had it'd have been one we'd have appealed. I know it's not the point but it's not as if he's cleaned Donaldson out or anything. He was able to continue the game with no issue. Much ado about nothing and all that.

I'd hope that after the Tynecastle horror show McGhee would think twice about shuffling players about and just sticks to a shape that works and plays the players in their natural position (or have at least been playing). Worst case scenario and *everyone* is out, no Law, Laing, Lasley, Pearson or McDonald then keeping the 433 that's been working you could see something like: Ripley Kennedy Hall McManus Hammell Cadden Gomis J.Leitch Johnson Moult McFadden (or Thomas)

That'd be Gomis rather than Cadden.

Aye. Hall was playing him on I think.

Some effort to turn that round and then see the game out. Especially in the circumstances. Our defending gave me the absolute fear at times but it was punctuated by some smashing bits of play. All in all an absolutely tremendous result though.

Cheers.. I saw Jonathan Wilson tweet about that the other day. I'm a subscriber but not had issue 20 through yet. That'll be a good read.

That goal is superb. The move starts in the left back position! Absolutely lovely goal.

Agreed. When you watch someone like O'Dea getting absolutely ragdolled by Rangers at the weekend it kind of puts things into a bit of context.

Agree with everything in that post above Joe, however just to chuck this in there for consideration as well on the point about the goals per game conceded I suppose it's worth factoring in the 'keepers he's been playing in front of: Hollis, Twardzik, Nielsen, Long and Ripley. At the moment in the league we're 1.51 goals conceded. In Randolph's last season we were 1.15 1.34. 15/16 - 1.51 gcpg (GA - 44* as at 29 games) 14/15 - 1.65 gcpg (GA - 63) 13/14 - 1.57 gcpg (GA - 60) 12/13 - 1.34 gcpg (GA - 51) 11/12 - 1.15 gcpg (GA - 44) 10/11 - 1.47 gcpg (GA - 56) For me the irritation with McManus is certainly the casual mistakes and the long diagonals however as I said in the earlier post (and I concede it's a bit lazy) I do wonder realistically who we'd be able to bring in and whether they'd be "better". Edit to add: My mistake, Randolph's last season was the 12/13 season so 1.34.

Same XI for me for no other reason than a lot of our problems through January & Feb seemed to stem from chopping and changing the shape of the team based on opposition. We've got an XI at the moment that's won a couple of games and is looking a bit more fluid. At the very least the team that played vs Thistle and Accies should be able to compete and hopefully create so I'd be wary of disrupting that. Going with the 433 of the past few games it'd see us go 3v3 against their backline which would be quite interesting.

Hearts beat United 2-0 btw. Interesting to see they had a couple of their eligible 1st team players in the it XI

To be honest I think Gomis is what he is, a short term midfield option until the end of the season to cover injury/suspension for Lasley or Cadden not stepping on as he has. Given that he himself seemed pretty surprised to even be here when he signed I'd be amazed if he was a player we were even considering beyond the end of his loan term.

As far as McManus goes I can see the arguments for and against and in that respect I don't feel strongly either way. As long as we get Hall, Cadden on longer term deals and McDonald's +1 extension taken up as priorities. Having heard McGhee talk about being able to play Hall alongside McManus on account of his experience then I've no real doubt that he'll be offered terms and in truth I'm fine with that though equally if he can get a better deal elsewhere then I wouldn't lose any sleep if he moved on. For me, McManus has something to offer though I'm not sure his value in that respect warrants him (presumably) being one of our highest earners, if that makes sense. In the event McManus did leave then it'd put us in the market for an experienced left sided centre half and it does beg the question of who, realistically, we'd be able to bring in? For all McManus has had poor runs of form (extended at times) it's not as if there are many of our direct competition fielding completely infallible centre halves. While I'd be happy enough to see guys like Hammell and Lasley offered extensions, I think that has to be on the proviso that they'll be playing less and that anyone we bring in has to be better than what we have in the first team at the moment. I don't think the squad needs another massive overhaul however what it does need is 3 or 4 players of a genuine first team quality in key positions.

Forgot about the one at Parkhead. Just watched it back and he went the same side with that one as well so I don't feel quite as daft.

Absolutely nit picking. That was only his 3rd pen this season and he'd scored the other 2 so I suppose you'd only start to notice a trend after a few. Equally, given the length of time it took for him to actually take the kick I suppose to go for the spot he's comfortable with would be a natural instinct. It's not like he missed by trying to Panenka it or that.

Last year's was a 7:30pm kick off. Seems to have been similar for prior years too.

Or if you log out it shows the results anyway.

Absolutely massive result. Credit to the players and staff. Pleased that Laing seems to be back in the fold and taking his chance, also good to see that Cadden seems to have bedded into the side now. Now he's actually had a run of games to find his feet Grimshaw's absence is less noticeable. On the penalty, the only thing I would say is that he puts it in exactly the same spot he's put his other pens, including one as recently as last week, so if the keeper has done any homework he's giving himself a chance. I wasn't at the game yesterday but when I heard the keeper had made the save, I said to my Dad that he'd have put it to the keeper's right and so it proved. Having said that, given we've been the victim of overly officious refereeing at pens this season it's worth pointing out that McGovern is well off his line when he makes the save, though probably not enough to moan about. Thankfully the miss didn't cost us and it was good that we saw out the game. Anyway a clean sheet and a win at that hovel is welcome.