capt_oats

For what it's worth Andy I agree with pretty much everything you said in the post that I've lifted this quote from but I thought this was an interesting point in terms of just exactly how much McIntyre & Baraclough's record compares; Ross County (under McIntyre to 12/09/15) P W D L F A GD Pts 40 15 10 15 54 56 -2 55/120 (45%) 37% - win Motherwell (under Baraclough to 12/09/15 not including play offs) P W D L F A GD Pts 29 9 5 15 32 35 -3 32/87 (36%) 31% - win (Based on the games Baras been in charge of then 2 additional wins from those played would have brought him level with McIntyre in terms of win %. Those are the sort of margins we're talking about.) Ultimately you can look at the above and dismiss it with the notion that statistics can be manipulated depending on what narrative you want to put across but nevertheless there's a bit of context there so make of it what you will. 6% difference in win % and 9% difference in terms of available points won. One might be more swayed by the idea that McIntyre came in and took Ross County from the foot of the table to safety and he has had an effect on the club and the team whereas in our case we've been plagued by inconsistency we've seen some excellent performances and we've equally seen some utterly abject displays which has only added to the feeling of uncertainty and doubt around the manager. As it stands we're 4 points off 4th place but equally 4 points off the bottom, personally I think we look like a team that whatever reason simply isn't clicking rather than a team in complete freefall and it's the manager's job to address the reasons why we're not as fluid as we should be. As I posted in one of the other threads, for all yesterday was a complete shitfest I'm almost certain that had we been in the same position last season playing against a team in the sort of form Ross County have been in of late then we'd have lost. I completely agree that getting a run of positive results with some consistent performances would go some way to alleviating the concerns.

I thought he was fine against Bolton as well but it's obviously difficult to tell in a game played at friendly pace but he definitely looked more comfortable in a 3. I completely agree re: Leitch. I understand why the manager would perhaps be swayed by the fact that Taylor has more experience and is a couple of years older than Leitch and on the face of it you could even go as far as to suggest that it's responsible management to avoid placing the pressure of filling Pearson's role in the team entirely on Leitch especially as you could hardly say Leitch and Pearson are comparable players. However if what we're doing in actuality is electing to play a loanee out of position as some sort of temporary placeholder for Pearson at the expense of a player who, regardless of age, naturally plays in that area of the park then it's a concern.

The only one I can think that might be the case with is Ripley and even then it may well be a verbal assurance than a formal clause. By all accounts (going by the fact he was loaned out to Orient last season) Taylor wasn't really part of Clarke's first team plans and in the case of Grimshaw I can see that as being the case that United have been told that he'll be involved. Edit: When I was looking at Reading's page there to see what was happening with Taylor last season I noticed that he's specifically listed as a left midfielder. Having watched him a few times now I'm pretty much convinced that he's being played out of position as part of a central midfield pair. It'd certainly explain a lot.

Moult for me, largely for being in the right place. Awful game of football. Shitfest of the highest order and in truth Ross County actually offered very little, I can't remember Ripley really having to make a save of note. Thought Ainsworth tried to offer something and being positive about things Johnson and Grimshaw actually made an impact when they came off the bench. The equaliser was a tidy bit of football.

^^^ This. There's little excuse for the performance yesterday and it should put to bed any notion that playing Lasley and Taylor together is a viable option (as part of a 3 is a different matter) but if we persist with a central midfield 2 then we'll continue to be dominated in that area and questions will need asked. That said this season we've variously heard words to the effect of "we can't grind out a draw", "we don't look like we can get back into a game when we lose the first goal" etc etc. Well we just did and we just have (against a team that's not East Fife too). I've no doubt that last season from the same position, against a team in the sort of form that Ross County have been, we'd have lost that game and having watched the goal back again last night it really was a well worked bit of football that got us the point. We played poorly for 90 mins and still took something from the game. The frustration for me, long balls and the root causes of us playing them aside, is that we're making the same mistakes and conceding soft, preventable goals (as we have done for years). I've said before that the manager needs to show that he can actually manage and that still remains the case.

From where I was sat it looked like there was a shove in the back of one of our defenders at the back post but like yourself I'd like to see it again as well.

I'd be inclined to agree that the players we have at the moment look more suited to 442. Play offs aside it's the formation that allowed us to find some form last season. It's also telling that the manager said in one of his post-game interviews that he felt Moult was more suited to playing with a partner. That said I'd also suggest that our recent signings (particularly Grimshaw, Taylor and Robinson) suggest there's an eye on us going 433, with Robinson as an inside right rather than us having 2 out and out wingers. Just as 352/532 was a fashionable system in the early 90s and 4231 is the current popular formation there seem to be an increasing number of teams shifting to 433 so it wouldn't be an entirely surprising development for us. There's been a lot of talk about a fixation on 4231 but I don't think it's a formation that has worked well for us recently or at the very least we've not looked fluid playing it (which obviously isn't to say it's not worked for us in the past). It noticeably left Sutton incredibly isolated last season and all too often has left a huge gap between midfield and striker this season with it becoming more of a 451 with McDonald dropping too deep, possibly trying to compensate for Pearson's absence who knows but I wouldn't say it's too much of a stretch to correlate the isolated striker with our poor conversion rate.

It's one of those systems that can seem like a good idea but you frequently see teams falling on their arse trying to play. As an example van Gaal has pretty much abandoned it with Man Utd to go 433. Which isn't to say it can't work but the players definitely need to be exceptionally well drilled for it to work and as you allude to, you need the right players for the roles. Out of curiosity when was the last time 3 at the back was one of our default formations? Early 90s with McCart, Krivocapic and Martin?

Or you could go with Leitch but I just don't think sticking McDonald in a midfield role works at the moment. You could maybe get away with playing him as an attacking midfielder in a 4411 or the 4231 but I don't really see that the latter has been a fluent system for us of late. Other than that I just think he needs to play as a striker. In fairness to Taylor, and I completely agree he's been anonymous in the league games he's played, he seemed much more comfortable as part of a 3 than he has when it's just been him and Lasley and dare I say he looked much more comfortable in midfield than Skippy has.

I'd like to see us go with that 433 system from the 1st half vs Bolton. Having Lasley in that regista position not only gives a bit of cover to the two centre halves but also seems to encourage us to play through midfield and play to feet. The extra man in there would hopefully nullify the likes of Irvine running beyond our midfield which is something we've been regularly caught out with. Law wouldn't be my first choice RB but I think Bara will stick with him despite seeming to realise that even Killie were targeting him and sticking Laing in there. Thought Kennedy had an impressive league debut and would probably keep him in. Given he's scored 3 in the last 3 I'd imagine Moult would start up front but I'd think that Fletcher would be more suited to the role. Ripley Law - Kennedy - McManus - Chalmers Lasley Grimshaw - Taylor Ainsworth ---------------------Thomas Moult Motherwell 2-1. Ainsworth & Moult for us.

Taylor was the interesting one for me, 1st half we looked like we were playing 3 centrally with Lasley as an anchor/DM, 2 wingers and thought Taylor looked a lot more comfortable in that role alongside Grimshaw with the security of another DM in there. It may well have been the fact that it was obviously being played at friendly pace but he got his foot on the ball and for the most part kept the ball moving. Nice touch to give the young 'un last kick of the ball and a nice day all round.

Thirded

For me there's two ways you can look at the Moore thing. 1. The more favourable stance; he's a young player who's come back from a serious injury and being kind his scoring record last season wasn't great for us (2 starts + 8 off the bench: 0 goals) though he certainly came on and did a job, he's been given time pre-season and having looked at him over that time the manager's felt that he's still not ready to be a starter for us but it won't benefit him or help his development by regularly coming off the bench for 15 - 20 minutes. His loan, especially off the back of his injury, is more about him playing 90 mins of football every week and (hopefully) scoring goals which for better or worse, given the pressure the team/manager is under not to repeat last season, is an opportunity he wouldn't be afforded at Fir Park. 2. Is less kind; basically, he's out of contract at the end of the season, the manager has been at the club long enough and had him around the first team squad, given him some game time and has already made up his mind that he's not at the level he needs for the Premiership and that it's in the player's best interests to be loaned out, start games and score goals to put himself in the shop window and move on his wage this season to another club rather than have him just cutting about like the aforementioned McHugh (4 games last season; 1 start, 3 off the bench). I guess it'll become apparent if he's offered a new contract or not. Also re: the Les quote about youth, I don't buy/read the Daily Heil so am basing this on what you guys were saying, I completely agree that him coming out with statements that are open to interpretation like that publicly isn't helpful at all and it seems completely contrary to what we're consistently hearing from the manager/coaching staff and the club itself. What I would suggest is that a softer, more appropriate wording would have been for him to say that we've got a group of young players who are "talented but not ready for the first team yet".

and we really, really need a winger who's been in talks with Barnsley.

I think it'd be Pearson and like yourself think we'd see a rotation between Lasley and Grimshaw. Very much doubt it would happen on account of our striker surplus but there's scope for us even going 451 with Lasley as an anchorman in front of the defence & Grimshaw along with Pearson as the two CM. Something like this would have matched up well vs Aberdeen.

One of the 2 strikers we'd have on the bench or he'd start and we'd have Moult and Fletcher on the bench. Realistically it looks like we're going to be playing McDonald +1 whatever happens.

Off the top of my head 2 defensive mids in a 4231, I'd say at the moment he's more likely to be replacing Leitch than Lasley. Different story if it's 442 though. It also asks the question of what Taylor's role actually is too: Ripley Law/Watt - Laing/Kennedy - McManus - Hammell/Chalmers Lasley - Grimshaw Ainsworth - McDonald - Thomas/Johnson Moult/Fletcher

Bloody hell. 6ft 3 attacking midfielder with Eredivise experience? Crumbs!

In fairness, I don't think that was meant as a dig, more that there should probably be a bit of perspective about Grimshaw. Kennedy was Man City's development team captain and it didn't stop him being released and ending up in Leicester's u21s. It's only since he's moved to us that Kennedy's even played his first senior game. It doesn't necessarily follow that because he's their u21 captain that they view him as the next Roy Keane. He may well have a future at United, Beckham was farmed out on loan to Preston after all but equally there are as many of their u21 players released (especially these days) without ever getting close to the first team.

From his club interview on YouTube and the interview that's posted up on United's site it seems he has qualities that we currently lack in the senior and (presumably) u20s midfields ie: a ball winning midfielder. I've said before that everything I've seen about Jake Taylor suggests he's a left sided midfielder rather than a central midfielder so I'd hope that this gives us a bit more balance rather than playing him in a position to which he's not particularly suited. Interesting that Grimshaw's signed until January and the club previously made public the January break clause in Taylor's loan deal as well. Suggests that we/the parent club are going to see how things go for the first few months. Again, it'd seem clear that United won't be loaning us their u21 captain for him to sit on the bench. Still to see who the 'bosman' that Flow mentioned is but until January I'd say that's us looking at a 4231/442 from the following: Ripley/Twardzik Law/Watt/Reid - Laing/Kennedy - McManus - Hammell/Chalmers Ainsworth/Thomas - Lasley/Leitch - Pearson/Grimshaw - Johnson/Taylor McDonald/Clarkson - Moult/Fletcher/Robinson Would suggest that we'd see Cadden & MacLean as definite u20s players until January at least. Which in fairness represents their current squad status at the club. That'd mean the quota of 'our' youth amounts to Thomas, Leitch & Watt. Either way, I look forward to seeing what Grimshaw brings to the team.

In fairness BBC Alba had 60mins of the game which may or may not have been airing at the same time as Sportscene.

It's not a difficult position to play.

Quite, as ridiculous as the idea of using a computer game seems essentially all it is is a massive database: http://www.sigames.com/news/when-videogames-and-football-collide-everton-fc-20 The only question mark really focuses on the reliability of the individual sourcing the data however as a starting point (position, age, height, weight, preferred foot etc, contract length) that information isn't actually going to vary whether you've sourced it from FM15 or a real person. I believe these are the folk we're in partnership with: http://info.scout7.com/en/about/

Just to update, van Zeelst already has a club so I'm guessing it's not him: http://www.transfermarkt.com/simon-van-zeelst/profil/spieler/264737

A+++ on the Police Squad reference. Top work there. van Zeelst was one of the guys we had as a trialist over there?