dennyc

Forget the bus driver. He took the rest to the game so that rules him out. And he took them home when they should have been made to walk back.

Well said. May I add to your list those that go into hiding when the team put in a good performance or certain players perform well. Or alternatively go into denial when one of the chosen few performs badly. The days after the County game being a standout example. Yes, of course they are entitled to their opinion. But those opinions might actually carry a bit more credence if they were more balanced, less obsessive and more constructive. I sometimes wonder if they actually sit there desperate for us to get a hiding so they can say "Told you so. He is shite" Every player has good and bad days. Every Manager has good and bad days. But you would think that was not the case if you listened to a few on here. Thankfully they are in the minority. Noisy but fairly few in number.

Not a scam at all. All legal and well found by St Mirren The fact it riles you does not make it wrong. Maybe our Board need to be a wee bit more creative. Maybe they do have such an arrangement with local Charities?

So how come they can purchase 27.5% of the Clubs Shares? The answer is that Charities such as Kibble are allowed to invest funds on the basis that the kids they look after receive a direct benefit as a result. They have a working Partnership with St Mirren that benefits both parties. They also provide additional support in non playing areas that is of mutual benefit. Basically they are paying for a service, which as a by product provides benefits to Saint Mirren and reduces their own outgoings.

They are owned by a fan group, but only to the extent of 51%. So not like us. A local Charity....Kibble who look after kids I think.....also bought just over 25% of shares with the rest being privately owned. So technically fan owned, but a bit like the Norwegian model we discussed whereby local Companies/Individuals enter into a Partnership Agreement.. Helping to fund various non football playing aspects of the Business. Perhaps that frees up funds for transfer business or perhaps the other investors contribute? They actually had less Members than the Well Society at last count but their model would appear to provide a better operating balance. I think....but not certain....that most German Clubs are 51% fan owned which also allows scope for that outside investment. Red Bull upset that applecart and that is why most fans/clubs detest them. Our problem could be that the fans own too many shares, leaving no scope for outside investment. Whatever, they would look to be in a healthier position than we are.

15 May 1982. Enjoyed the whole season but that result at Tynecastle was the icing on the cake. Wonderful. Place almost burst into flames when the Killie HT score came in. And the best bit was that we already had the League won but our players and fans wanted more.

So you have never seen him play then. And you've been going on what their fans say. Do Lincoln have a steelboy perhaps? If so, he had no chance. At least give the lad one appearance before writing him off.

When did you see Vale play? Did you pop down to Lincoln for a match?

Unreal as it sounds, £6m is nothing to the Knights and will likely be offset in some tax set up anyway. Hibs contributing to operate in profit and increasing that profit over the years might be all he is looking for on the financial front Stability. At the very least, and following the demise of Gordon. Foley's business sense will likely help them to that end. Any trophy success being the icing on the cake providing that fuzzy feeling you mentioned. Not in our world, but there are folk out there that have so much money they can afford to be less return driven. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, Hutchison was willing to invest without any real hope of meaningful return. And he was an astute self made multi millionaire who you would not expect to invest on a non return basis. Even allowing for sentiment. Maybe Foley just likes using his loose change to see what results he can achieve. Who knows?

Good point but I don't think Foley will have the same influence with the Scotsman as Anne Budge has. It is almost at Celtic and The Sun levels.

Fair comment I guess. But Foley and his Group do not appear to be fly by nights investing on a whim. And they don't appear (to my amateur eye) to be fleecing Clubs as per the Glaziers at Man Utd. With safeguards in place I think it is a great opportunity for Hibs. With old man Gordon popping his clogs and with his family perhaps less committed they were at a crossroads. But I agree they need to be careful as well as open minded. Foley has stuck with the Organisations he has invested in and eventually brought them success after gradual improvement. Even his first venture, the Ice Hockey team did the impossible and won the Stanley Cup. He is still involved and committed by all accounts. That augers well for his other involvements. Maybe the guys from the US that regularly post on here could tell us what the views are on him over there?

Fair play on the philanthropy shown by Hutchinson. My comment was more about the dictatorial way he ran the show until he had had enough and left, although as you rightly say he did not scupper us by withdrawing funds. Another discussion, but for me that entire process led us to the questionable structure we have today. But yeah, egotistical was possibly the wrong word. Apologies. But as far as the Hibs situation goes, if any astute american businessman with a good track record were to offer us £6m up front with little strings attached, then I would be all for it. There is a good article in the Scotsman regards the arrangement which covers a lot of the doubts folk have. Whether those folk are prepared to take his comments at face value is up to them. I also get that lots of people like to stick with tradition.

What is Foley's track record? I've not been aware of anything of concern from the various organisations he has bought into. Football or otherwise. Or that he is into asset stripping or lining his pockets at the expense of an Organisation. Scotland has had its home grown share of those in the past and he does not fit that pattern. . The fact his Group has interests in numerous Clubs worldwide sets them apart from any Group with one established Club looking for a wee feeder Club. And with their money, why would they need a feeder Club? He could just buy who he wants. I understand your suspicion and caution. But I really don't see what the issue is in this case. Time will tell if it works out but I think it is interesting and exciting times ahead for Hibs. Certainly on a more stable basis than when Boyle decided we could take on the big boys.

How about your distortion of facts? Conveniently ignored.

Again you like to distort facts. He signed a pre transfer agreement with St Mirren so Killie opted to let him go on Loan rather than pay his wages to warm the Bench. His Manager said he would no longer be a first choice as he was leaving at season end. He had featured in most matches up to the January. Probably what you will demand regards Spittal if his St Mirren rumour is true.

This is may take on it. I really don’t see where this B Club nonsense is coming from. Pure fiction and lacking in fact although it does make a good story. Given the terms of the Hibs deal, Foley purchases a minority share holding of under 30%. And has no direct control over football matters. The Board continues to run the show as happens everywhere. Again Foley is a minority. The deal must also to meet UEFA criteria re multi ownership. I have heard no suggestion that Foley is even seeking Security of Easter Road or other Hibs Assets although that could be a condition that would concern fans. . In return Hibs are getting £6m up front to be spent on facilities, youth development and transfers. With more funds to come for next season. Losing all their best players to other teams in the ownership Group? If they do move players it will be for a transfer fee as happens now given every team is a selling Club. Regulations are in place to ensure that market value is respected. And if they get loaned young prospects, where is the problem with that? Nobody complained about Biereth when we were the beneficiaries. The only nonsense we have not had spouted so far is that Doidge will be off to Vegas to play for Foley’s Ice Hockey team. Looking at our own circumstances I would be delighted with such an arrangement. Rather that than have impulsive egotists like Boyle and Hutchinson in charge. Or the alternative of being consigned to the lower leagues, turning into East Stirling or the like. I do accept that some fans do not like the way football is developing and passionately want Clubs to remain as they once were. Fair enough and I respect them for that. I just don’t think it is sustainable in most cases. Certainly not in top divisions. Where exactly is the additional danger of big business funding or supporting any Club? It is happening worldwide. The exact same financial dangers exist if a Club is family run, fan owned, Bank controlled or one man’s plaything. Funds can dry up or be withdrawn. Good luck to Hibs. Well done.

I think you are being a wee bit hard on yourself. You were certainly not wrong to question the signing for the valid reasons you highlighted. He is doing well now and his attitude and effort sets an excellent example. Whether he is a long term solution remains to be seen but for now the project has worked fine. He needs support up front though and he should hit that double figure tablet. Well said though.

In percentage terms of all Motherwell fans what level does "many" represent? At one time it might have been around 50/50 but I think his support has strengthened a fair bit since the depths of Ross County. Going by what I see and hear at matches most fans believe his position should be reviewed at season end. Does not mean they are entirely convinced though. Kind of reflects the majority on this forum.

Here is another inventive fact "It didn't work out for Courts in Hungary but he's still got more achievements to his name as a manager than Kettlewell. " The truth is Courts has won nothing as a Manager in the senior Leagues. East of Scotland League in 2018 was his last success. It is also the truth that in that same year Kettlewell won the Championship and Challenge Cup as a Manager. As for today. We gained a point on two teams we hope to finish above. For me that is a positive. If we are ahead of both at the split then we are in the driving seat.

Those goalposts moving again then. So to clarify You are proposing that we employ a person who walked out on one Club, left his position with another two Clubs by mutual consent within a season and has been unemployed since. So much for reducing risk. I can understand why you don't rate Kettlewell and fair enough. You're not alone. But Courts! Really? Why can't Livi sack Martindale? Has he something on them or are the Board scared of him?

On todays viewing St J looked terrible and were fortunate to get a point. Contributed nothing and no creativity. Levein may have a decent reputation but he has a task on in Perth. Another Club suffering to a substantial drop in player quality. A far cry from their Cup Final appearances.

I like the way you ignore the other parts of Court's history that I highlighted. Any thoughts on that aspect? Personally I would prefer a Manager who isn't likely to chuck it so readily. Also very "selective" in your use of stats. A quick check suggests Courts had a 38% win rate in total at Utd whereas Kettlewell is sitting at 41%. I guess we must be looking at different records. Or. as you say, maybe beating bottom six teams should be discounted. Europe I'll concede although according to a few on here that is nothing to celebrate and only hurts our League campaign.

So factually incorrect on both counts. Care to acknowledge that? Any success he had in Management was in lower league football. It was Ferguson that managed Kelty to SPFL promotion. In the Championship, Courts was in temporary charge of Utd for one game as Mellon had CoVid. They lost How about his time (4 months) in Hungary? Or do we just ignore that? The man you hold in such high regard has walked out on one Club and upon his Managerial return he left two others by Mutual Consent within a five month period. That is some CV. And at least one of your other two suggestions has already refused our approach.

Shaw and Wilkinson looked like decent signings and very few, if any, raised questions at the time. Even "those others" you refer to. They were signed based on playing history and the financial market we operate in. Both have moved on as you say, for different reasons. Shaw was nothing like the youngster that featured for Hibs and Wilkinson was unsettled. But were they worth a try? I think they were. Bair and Obika I tend to agree should not have been signed, but each has shown glimpses that not all is lost. I repeat, I would not have taken a risk on either. Biereth is the quality of youngster we just cannot afford to sign on a full contract basis. So, when the opportunity of a Loan placement comes up, are we to decline the offer on the basis we just don't like Loans? For a while Biereth was the Messiah and his loan status was not a factor. Did you raise it as an error back then? Also it is perfectly clear to anyone willing to open their eyes that Arsenal did the dirty on us. How do you plan for that? In case you haven't noticed, the bulk of deals done in the January window are on a loan basis, even involving Clubs with a lot more financial resources than we have. But ok, we can just ignore that market and sign lesser players on longer contracts. Bair mark 2 perhaps. Tierney and McKinstrey were a waste of a much needed wage and had no future at Motherwell. Although they were fan favourites each failed to take any starting opportunities they were given, flattering to deceive in substitute appearances. That's the reality of why they left. Several Managers formed that same opinion, not just Kettlewell. That also applies to others that were moved on. Kettlewell's signings in this window and his set up against Alloa suggest he is aware of the need for better attacking width. Nicholson often played as a winger for Hearts and Elliott is described as a pacy attacking wing back. Montgomery seemed comfortable going forward and Gent certainly benefited from starting in an advanced position. So, for me, that is a manager recognising where improvement is needed. So, for now, I hope we stick with him. Season end is the time for his future to be assessed. And no doubt his recent signings will be a factor one way or another. Not in response to your post alone, but it is clear there are fans out there desperate for Kettlewell to fail and so prove them right..........no matter the implications of that failure. Scrutinising every word to find fault but going quiet when things go well or a signing looks promising. Several players appear to be up against the same barrier. Sad.

Sounds nothing like an excuse, more like a touch of honesty and reality. Which is something fans usually cry out for. A clear and precise outline of our situation. You should be applauding that the Club is actively looking for a striker or two? That is unless you are in the minority determined to find fault with everything our Manager does or says. Not to say he hasn't made mistakes, but inventing grounds for having a go only detracts from any valid points you make.