dennyc

Statistics can be quoted to suit any argument though, depending upon how selective you care to be. What you say result wise is accurate but it is also true to say we have only lost two league games in eleven with one of those losses being to Rangers. And unbeaten in five with two commanding home victories and lots of goals scored. So since end November only one league loss (Ross County away) that was extremely disappointing. So would you acknowledge that recent league results actually indicate an overall improvement? The only stat that really matters for now is our League position and that has improved considerably over those eleven games. So actually two examples...results and league position... that suggest Kettlewell and his team are performing much better now than they were using the stats you selected. Am I happy with our League position and enjoying this season? Definitely not! Am I angry at losing to Morton and frustrated by some of the team selections that Kettlewell puts on the pitch? Definitely yes! But I think overall and taking into account those recent improvements that it would be foolhardy to replace Kettlewell at this time. The time to assess his position is at season end.

It is a valid suggestion that Kettlewell's record over the past 20 games or so brings his suitability as our Manager into question. I don't really think anybody can argue with that and the debate on here has been robust. Whether for or against his retention. Setting aside contributing factors such as finance, injuries etc etc. But if those statistics are going to be the stick to beat him with then there are more recent statistics that point in another direction. Going on the basis that the current tables and form guide on the BBC site are accurate. If they are inaccurate then please dive in. Over the past 5 League games we have secured 9 points and are unbeaten. Only Celtic, Rangers and Hearts have a better record. Livi and County have amassed 1 point each, S J 5 points. More surprising perhaps is that Hibs have only gained 2 points and Aberdeen 3 over that same period. So in effect some folk want to ditch Kettlewell when we are performing better in the League than the vast majority of our rivals, in particular those sitting below us in the table. That makes no sense. In fact the stats suggest a corner has been turned. Then again those stats can change very quickly although even if we lose tomorrow we will still have a better 5 game record than 6 other teams, including Aberdeen. The time to make the decision is at season end. The time to change Manager is well gone for now. A change now would only add to the risk of relegation and I have yet to read of any realistic replacement that is available or would want the job. When that question is asked all we get is the cop out "That's not my job" Of course statistics can be contrived to suit any argument. Should we look at the last 20 games, 40 games even, or 10 games, 5 games? Each will provide a different picture. All that really matters is our final league position and ultimately that will be the deciding factor. But the demands will continue. It appears to have become personal for some, rather than logical.

No problem. I have no interest in him either other than he manages a lower league team that just turfed us out of the Scottish Cup. He deserves credit for that. I was not suggesting he was a better Manager than Kettlewell or should replace him, as another poster appears to think. From what you have posted I think we are on the same page re Kettlewell ........and Kelly for that matter.

Maybe he will be next man up. The meltdown would be magnificent. Maybe worth it just for that. On a serious note, Ian Murray was a suggestion of a good few at one time. And maybe still is. Imrie is currently performing better than him and they could well meet in the playoffs. On a less serious note, imagine if we were then to play Morton for our Premiership survival!

It is quite a conundrum. Kelly is making too many mistakes and his confidence looks shot. So a rest might be the answer. He is a far better goalkeeper than he is currently showing. It certainly would happen if he were an outfielder. On the other hand, Oxborough did not inspire confidence with his League Cup outings, especially against Queen of the South. Then again he has had no opportunity to demonstrate whether he has improved since those two appearances. SK and the coaches see them both in training. If Oxborough plays I don't think his performance will decide the game. If Kelly plays, his performance may well decide the game.....one way or another. If we could only sort out our central defence and unearth wing backs that could defend the goalkeeper situation would not be so critical. It really is a tough one.

I'll make it even simpler then. Imrie is doing a decent job. Address that fact. You have not come anywhere close to that. I never mentioned Kettlewell. You did.

To make it simple for you. Your feelings towards Imrie are blinding you to the fact that he is doing a decent job with limited resources. As the facts you are keen to tell folk to check confirm. I think my original post made that perfectly clear. Perhaps you would like to address those facts....or deny them if you like.

Talking of an angry man! Maybe you should check your facts. Like him or loathe him, Imrie's record at Morton is decent. Since taking charge in late 2021 he led them clear of probable relegation and then missed the play offs last season on goal difference. Currently in a play off position on a good unbeaten run. Numerous Manager of the Month awards and a win % in excess of 40. In a League where his budget is way below the majority of his opposition. And the team he coaches has just deservedly beaten a team from the Division above. As I said previously, credit where credit's due.

Was he not in charge of Morton when Donnelly scored a late extra time winner at Fir Park to avoid a penalty shoot out? They put up a decent showing that game as well although we did waste lots of chances and dominate possession.

Since 1966 for me and I know exactly how you feel. The issues within our Club run a lot deeper than whoever happens to be Manager. My main concern is I don't see anything encouraging me to believe things will improve any time soon. Any enjoyment I get is short term as the next disappointment/crisis is just around the corner. It is a chore to go to some games now and purchasing a Season Ticket fells more like a duty. But you might be right, it could be just an age thing😄. The only comfort I take is that fans of other Clubs are experiencing similar issues. Why should that be the case? Perhaps despite ever improving facilities, sport science etc. etc., due to financial constraints and poor governance of the game, the standard we are witnessing is falling season upon season and consideration for fans is a thing of the past.

Agree with this. Personally I think the last half hour v County was a missed opportunity. Then again, if SK had made numerous substitutions on the hour and County had fought back, he would have been slaughtered for throwing away three precious points. Also, as much as some fans have an OTT dislike of Imrie, perhaps he is turning out to be a very good Manager and an astute tactician. Credit where credit's due. He did us over.

Forget the bus driver. He took the rest to the game so that rules him out. And he took them home when they should have been made to walk back.

Well said. May I add to your list those that go into hiding when the team put in a good performance or certain players perform well. Or alternatively go into denial when one of the chosen few performs badly. The days after the County game being a standout example. Yes, of course they are entitled to their opinion. But those opinions might actually carry a bit more credence if they were more balanced, less obsessive and more constructive. I sometimes wonder if they actually sit there desperate for us to get a hiding so they can say "Told you so. He is shite" Every player has good and bad days. Every Manager has good and bad days. But you would think that was not the case if you listened to a few on here. Thankfully they are in the minority. Noisy but fairly few in number.

Not a scam at all. All legal and well found by St Mirren The fact it riles you does not make it wrong. Maybe our Board need to be a wee bit more creative. Maybe they do have such an arrangement with local Charities?

So how come they can purchase 27.5% of the Clubs Shares? The answer is that Charities such as Kibble are allowed to invest funds on the basis that the kids they look after receive a direct benefit as a result. They have a working Partnership with St Mirren that benefits both parties. They also provide additional support in non playing areas that is of mutual benefit. Basically they are paying for a service, which as a by product provides benefits to Saint Mirren and reduces their own outgoings.

They are owned by a fan group, but only to the extent of 51%. So not like us. A local Charity....Kibble who look after kids I think.....also bought just over 25% of shares with the rest being privately owned. So technically fan owned, but a bit like the Norwegian model we discussed whereby local Companies/Individuals enter into a Partnership Agreement.. Helping to fund various non football playing aspects of the Business. Perhaps that frees up funds for transfer business or perhaps the other investors contribute? They actually had less Members than the Well Society at last count but their model would appear to provide a better operating balance. I think....but not certain....that most German Clubs are 51% fan owned which also allows scope for that outside investment. Red Bull upset that applecart and that is why most fans/clubs detest them. Our problem could be that the fans own too many shares, leaving no scope for outside investment. Whatever, they would look to be in a healthier position than we are.

15 May 1982. Enjoyed the whole season but that result at Tynecastle was the icing on the cake. Wonderful. Place almost burst into flames when the Killie HT score came in. And the best bit was that we already had the League won but our players and fans wanted more.

So you have never seen him play then. And you've been going on what their fans say. Do Lincoln have a steelboy perhaps? If so, he had no chance. At least give the lad one appearance before writing him off.

When did you see Vale play? Did you pop down to Lincoln for a match?

Unreal as it sounds, £6m is nothing to the Knights and will likely be offset in some tax set up anyway. Hibs contributing to operate in profit and increasing that profit over the years might be all he is looking for on the financial front Stability. At the very least, and following the demise of Gordon. Foley's business sense will likely help them to that end. Any trophy success being the icing on the cake providing that fuzzy feeling you mentioned. Not in our world, but there are folk out there that have so much money they can afford to be less return driven. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, Hutchison was willing to invest without any real hope of meaningful return. And he was an astute self made multi millionaire who you would not expect to invest on a non return basis. Even allowing for sentiment. Maybe Foley just likes using his loose change to see what results he can achieve. Who knows?

Good point but I don't think Foley will have the same influence with the Scotsman as Anne Budge has. It is almost at Celtic and The Sun levels.

Fair comment I guess. But Foley and his Group do not appear to be fly by nights investing on a whim. And they don't appear (to my amateur eye) to be fleecing Clubs as per the Glaziers at Man Utd. With safeguards in place I think it is a great opportunity for Hibs. With old man Gordon popping his clogs and with his family perhaps less committed they were at a crossroads. But I agree they need to be careful as well as open minded. Foley has stuck with the Organisations he has invested in and eventually brought them success after gradual improvement. Even his first venture, the Ice Hockey team did the impossible and won the Stanley Cup. He is still involved and committed by all accounts. That augers well for his other involvements. Maybe the guys from the US that regularly post on here could tell us what the views are on him over there?

Fair play on the philanthropy shown by Hutchinson. My comment was more about the dictatorial way he ran the show until he had had enough and left, although as you rightly say he did not scupper us by withdrawing funds. Another discussion, but for me that entire process led us to the questionable structure we have today. But yeah, egotistical was possibly the wrong word. Apologies. But as far as the Hibs situation goes, if any astute american businessman with a good track record were to offer us £6m up front with little strings attached, then I would be all for it. There is a good article in the Scotsman regards the arrangement which covers a lot of the doubts folk have. Whether those folk are prepared to take his comments at face value is up to them. I also get that lots of people like to stick with tradition.

What is Foley's track record? I've not been aware of anything of concern from the various organisations he has bought into. Football or otherwise. Or that he is into asset stripping or lining his pockets at the expense of an Organisation. Scotland has had its home grown share of those in the past and he does not fit that pattern. . The fact his Group has interests in numerous Clubs worldwide sets them apart from any Group with one established Club looking for a wee feeder Club. And with their money, why would they need a feeder Club? He could just buy who he wants. I understand your suspicion and caution. But I really don't see what the issue is in this case. Time will tell if it works out but I think it is interesting and exciting times ahead for Hibs. Certainly on a more stable basis than when Boyle decided we could take on the big boys.

How about your distortion of facts? Conveniently ignored.