dennyc

First of all, I believe we will gather enough points to avoid any last game drama. And so does MJC by the tone of his posts. But looking at the remaining fixtures for Kilmarnock and Utd, anybody who is writing them off from winning three games minimum is kidding themselves. So we need at least one win. Both of them. like us, have been handed winnable home ties. County on the other hand need a miracle, being due to meet all three of us away from home. And St Johnstone will be in more danger than us if results pan out as expected. So we should be safe but it is far from guaranteed. It's in our own hands, we are playing well and with that home game against County as a fail safe I am fairly relaxed about our prospects. The sooner it is done and dusted the better though.

If we cannot get enough points given that we have home games against the bottom three teams, then we don’t deserve to stay up. It is in our own hands.

The earlier post By Toxteth where the interview was detailed in full captured the original quote re contract running out at end of this season. The official link to the article now reveals the amended, accurate information. Would not be surprised if Motherwell contacted the newspaper to point out their error. Certainly be in MFC's interest to set the record straight. Thought KVV was very respectful of Motherwell...and Celtic.....and came across well. If KVV and/or his Agent are actively seeking to cash in good luck to them. Given his age he has to look after his own best interests. His comments show that even if he does move on he hopes Motherwell are well recompensed. I can think of others who. in a similar situation, have been less considerate. Credit to him for that.

Don't know the ins and outs of the dawn raids mentioned but if they were later found to be unjust and vindictive then that is a disgrace that needs to be highlighted. If there is also an issue with one particular individual within Fir Park then that also should be addressed. As with with any dispute that will likely only be resolved through discussion and common sense being applied by all parties. So I simply ask if any moves have been made to try and arrange a meeting to move things forward? If an approach has been made and the Club have declined such a meet, then that too is unacceptable. That said, any compromise cannot include the Club being seen to condone criminal acts. As for fan behaviour. I remember not that long ago we were all up in arms when Celtic fans trashed Fir Park. The targets of our outrage included Stewards and Police for not taking immediate action and Officials of our Club who appeared reluctant to pursue matters with the football authorities and Celtic Football Club. Is it not a bit hypocritical therefore to condemn Police, stewards and our own employees when action is taken against our own fans for similar anti social behaviour. Be it within football grounds or surrounding areas during match day. Behaviour which, despite repeated denials from a few on here, has been witnessed and commented upon by many fans who attend away games. As for Motherwell passing information to the Authorities. Why shouldn't that be acceptable if the actions of some are damaging the standing of the Club and more seriously putting other fans at risk? Particularly if the Football Authorities are taking an interest. Surely our Board have a duty to act in the interest of the Club. Again liking it to the Celtic incident, there were plenty of folk asking for fans to be identified via CCTV and/or Celtic so that police action could be taken. And as someone posted earlier...if you break the Law don't be surprised if bad things happen. And no David, I'm not a level above most. I doubt whether there is anybody on this forum who has not found themselves in trouble one way or another. Certainly not me. But I don't recall threatening fellow Motherwell fans (fact) or trashing pubs(allegedly as I did not witness that in person). And pyrotechnics were not really a thing at football when I was a youngster. But that does not mean fans should turn a blind eye to what is happening. And commenting on what they or I see is not an attempt to "put others down and appear a cut above". It is about highlighting disgusting, dangerous behaviour by a few that will drive fans away from games and ultimately damage our Club.

Plenty of folk have enjoyed the atmosphere the lads generate and have recognised, praised and often contributed to their various displays and good causes. For what it's worth I do appreciate much of what they add to matches and I hope they continue to contribute. And I support their right to do so. But plenty of folk, me included, old folk and not so old folk, have also witnessed the types of incidents Robbos Boy mentions. From Kilmarnock to Paisley, from Dingwall to Kirkcaldy. Like you I have no foot in any camp. I don't know any of the Bois and I don't know any Club Officials or Police involved. I can only comment on what I have regularly witnessed and it appears to me that the so called "self policing" is not working. And sadly the incidents have been escalating. I don't usually agree with much that Robbos Boy comes up with, but on this occasion I think he makes a valid point. It may well only apply to a small minority within the group, but to suggest that The Bois do not go too far at times and to palm off any criticism as older fans with an axe to grind is nonsense. But if you truly believe that incidents in the places I mentioned or that Robbos Boy highlighted did not occur, were exaggerated or were just high jinx, then so be it. I know what I have seen and heard and I fear it is only a matter of time until someone is seriously hurt.. I do hope the Bois can resolve the issues they have with some employees of Motherwell FC and also which I believe exist within their membership. That should then result in less confrontations with Police, Stewards and fellow Motherwell fans. There definitely appears to be plenty of good people with commendable intentions within the group. Fir Park especially and grounds throughout Scotland would be the worse off for their absence.

Perhaps he does not fancy the abuse or threats that go the way of those that dare to speak up at games.

And Jack Hendry withdraws. A player his Club had declared injured several weeks ago and who has not played since. So when it suits Clarke he selects injured players and those lacking game time, but when it also suits he uses injuries and lack of game time as reasons for not picking players. No Shankland ...or Taylor....for those reasons but let's include Hendry and Gilmour, and now Celtic's third choice full back. Somebody, somewhere should be asking Clarke what is going on with his squads and not accepting his nonsensical reasoning.

No doubt he will be frustrated at getting less game time than he thinks he merits. His career was stalled again due to injury, suffered in that first League Cup Final. Might be a surprise to some on here, but that season he featured in every match under Ange right up until that final. I think he was the only player that managed that feat. Hardly the history of somebody that made the wrong transfer choice. He will be a much better and mature player now than when he left us and in my opinion more able to adapt to everything a move to England entails .....if that happens....than he would have been 3 years ago. Of course he might have been a roaring success had he headed South instead of opting to remain up here. But we will never know. In a football sense I wonder if Billy Gilmour wishes he had matured a little before moving to Chelsea? His career isn't exactly taking off right now. In fact it appears to be in decline.

As opposed to playing in the Championship for a team that has been in freefall for three years. Or would Man City or Arsenal have snapped him up?

Blinkered nonsense. Based purely on who he signed for. Wonder how many important games he would have played in for Norwich following their relegation? Wonder how many medals he would have won? Wonder what his Bank Balance would be following a relegation wage cut and no winner bonuses? Wonder if he has improved being around top players and being managed by top coaches? He made the correct move for him at that time. And still has plenty of time to move South if he wants in the knowledge that he is now financially secure for life.

And you can add one...soon to be two.. League winner medals, one Scottish Cup winner medal and Two League Cup Winner medals. And still only 23 years old. Bad advice indeed.

In one of Ange's recent love ins with his media buddies, without mentioning names he referred to having no time for players who complain about not being selected. Since then Turnbull has sat on the bench watching every minute of every first team match. Turnbull being the player who had been brought on after 70 minutes or so and contributed goals and assists in a run of games leading up to those Ange comments. Admittedly looking on from the outside, but I do wonder if those comments were aimed at Turnbull. Although Forrest is another possibility. Hopefully he gets paroled soon and heads elsewhere.

I know this is Scotland and so it is a lottery regarding decisions during matches and the inevitable appeals. But if we accept that two qualified officials look at every potential red card and (eventually) agree on any outcome, you would think the VAR process would make the need for red card appeals redundant. If any are overturned then that suggests the panel have decided that two experienced Officials (at least) have got it entirely wrong. That surely raises bigger questions regards the competency of those Officials. I don't know what happens behind the scenes but I wonder if the reason for any overturn is discussed with those that are seen to have made an error?

Spot on. I would add that after the Raith debacle only two players came over to the goalmouth to acknowledge the fans ......the rest either stormed off or stood at the half way line looking embarrassed. Those two players who manned up were Tierney and Van Veen. And Van Veen was distraught. Hardly the actions of a man who had downed tools. Hammell brought about his own downfall and his approach to that match confirmed he had to go.

Strangely enough not one of the few folk determined to blame the Club have an answer to that question. But no matter. Burrows etc are to blame. That suits the agenda. I don't recall all this fuss when McKinstrey left for Leeds, or McAlear for Norwich. Disappointed that we were, talk then was all about whether we had sell on clauses and there was an acceptance that the Club could do no more than offer him terms and try to negotiate a deal with their new clubs. Ramsay and Hickey signed contracts at Aberdeen and Hearts because when their contract discussions were taking place no "bigger" Club came in for them. If Liverpool and Bologna had been interested at that stage then let's agree those Scottish contracts would not have been signed. Sadly for us, Johnston is about to be out of contract and bigger Clubs ARE interested. That's a huge difference and takes control out of Motherwell's hands. Perversely Motherwell might actually have had a better chance of retaining him if he had not been recalled and put on show for the likes of Bologna. But it all comes down to the question that David posed. How do you make a player sign a Contract? If he is as confident of his future as Johnston appears to be and from a football family, would that player not stall until the last possible moment to see if better options come up? We are only Motherwell after all. In the knowledge that he always has the offer from his parent club to fall back on as a last resort. He could also use that outside interest to negotiate better terms if he preferred to stay for whatever reason. Why sign away all the power before you have to? I certainly would delay as long as possible and I believe most folk would as well. The players hold all the aces.

Exactly this. A few folk are just determined to find fault with the Club. If it wasn't Johnston it would be something else. And still no answer as to how to make a player sign on if he sees better options elsewhere. Reality plays little part in their criticism. Not everybody is like Turnbull or McFadden who signed on to earn the Club money, trusting they would get their transfer anyway. Playing in Heart's first team did not stop Hickey wanting to leave when the chance of a lifetime came up. same as the kid who left Aberdeen for Liverpool. And if those opportunities had come earlier they would have left earlier. The Board and Burrows may have made mistakes but this is not one of them. Or is the suggestion that we should insist youngsters sign a three year contract before we let them play in the first team? Good luck with that. Even if Johnston had not gone out on Loan his contract would still have run out this summer. So Loaning or not had no effect on him staying or leaving.

Did Rangers and Motherwell not agree a fee re Hastie, to include add-ons including appearances and future transfers? So potentially it was much better than the basic, one off, Development Fee as it provided for future rewards. Same as Bailey Rice who just brought in another tidy sum last week following his Ranger's first team appearance. That'll be the same Hastie who was slaughtered for not signing the contract offered by Motherwell. Whereas Johnston it appears is to be commended for his ambition in not signing the contract offered to him. Wee bit of double standards. it did not end well for Hastie and there is no guarantee it will work out well for Johnston. But both are entitled to do what they believe is best for their career. As a youngster, Johnston's route to the first team was blocked by two Scottish International right backs. And others under Alexander. So the Club did the correct thing in loaning him out, then recalling him when he was more able to make the move up. Usual practice and I'm not sure what exactly Motherwell are seen to have done wrong. As Weeyin says, if anyone knows how to legally force any player to sign a contract please tell all. Or maybe we should adopt the Russian approach which ended up being referred to Uefa? That is, inviting the player in for discussions and then beating him with a baseball bat until he puts pen to paper. Every Club, big and small, loses youngsters who refuse to sign or extend contracts. Fabregas from Barcelona to Arsenal being a classic example. Motherwell are no better or no worse than any other team.

I think Celtic and Rangers tend to fill their first team with relatively unknown foreigners and then hope to sell them on for fees we can only dream about. Bassey, Ajer, Edouard, Van Dijk as prime examples that brought in astronomical fees. I expect Celtic to cash in on their Japanese imports before too long. That strategy limits the opportunity for youth prospects to progress to the first team. Add to that the fact they, like us, lose youngsters to England before they reach first team level. For Celtic, Doak to Liverpool for £600k a few seasons ago. This season, Sule to West Brom, Morrison and Hepburn to Bayern Munich. Fees not released. Billy Gilmour from Rangers. I guess Forrest and McGregor are two that made it at Celtic and the Rangers squad currently includes Devine, King, Lowrie who have featured this season. Allan MacGregor was a Rangers youth player. The McCrorie brothers? None of them sold for huge money though. I suppose Celtic and Rangers have the best of both worlds. Owing to finances they can pilfer Scotland for youth as well as established first team players. They can also afford fairly sizeable transfer fees to bring in top level players from overseas. Both tactics have earned them big bucks in recent years. And, unlike us, they can cope financially with the odd transfer disaster. Boerrigter and Scheidt was £7.5m wasted by Celtic. It will be interesting to see if Bailey Rice and Murray Miller become first team regulars at Ibrox. Both have done well so far but that is no guarantee they will be at Rangers long term. Credit to Lennon Miller for sticking with us and hopefully earning us a fortune. It's the football world we live in. frustrating though.

I would like to see the Youth, B and first team Management work as a team to establish similar styles of play and approach across the board. Would help players to progress without having to adapt too much to a different set up. Not sure that would work if Hammell and Kerr were involved. Especially if earlier comments that Hammell did not utilse Kettle within the first team coaching set up are accurate. Kettlewell was asked about a first team assistant and he said work was in hand to identify the correct person. That person would need to think along the same lines as him, but also be strong enough to express ideas for improvement. When that person arrives I would expect Clarkson to revert to his former role. I suspect Kettlewell may also have someone in mind to assist at lower levels. Certainly sounds like Kettlewell and the Board have a vision of the structure they want. Let's hope it works out.

In fairness the financial rewards that come our way from youngsters that are poached are substantial. £300k/£400k is pretty common as an up front payment. I can recall at least four that brought in that amount in the past three years. And that's not including Scott, Turnbull or Hastie who were all a bit older. Plus you can negotiate future payments based on a variety of events such as first team appearances, international call ups and future transfers. Most clubs try to negotiate terms rather than rely on the set Dev Fee. in my opinion Motherwell are pretty astute in their dealings. So, even with the disappointment of youngsters not staying with us long enough to reach the first team, youth development is worth the investment as it generates substantial income. Also to fully benefit from solidarity payments from UEFA related to the performance of other Scottish Clubs in Europe, a Club must have a qualifying youth programme in place. it is a bit annoying that the more successful the youth programme is, the more likely it is that players will be drawn from us. If it helps to make it more palatable, even Rangers and Celtic lose excellent prospects to England. Rory Wilson to Villa for £400k being a recent example

Exactly this And as the article says, Motherwell have offered Beattie a pro contract when he turns 17. So they are protected as far as development fees are concerned. Might be better to negotiate terms with his new club rather than rely on development fees though as that can include profitable add ons. As happened with Rice who made is Rangers first team debut last weekend. Not a lot any Scottish Club (including Rangers and Celtic) can do if an English team convinces a youngster to join their scholarship programme at age 16 with the promise of a full time contract at 17. So other than ensuring their entitlement to Development Fees I'm not sure that Motherwell could have done anything more or that they have "dropped the ball" as was suggested. In reality the chances of a Turnbull like pay out are becoming less and less likely as the bigger clubs increase their raids on Youth Academies. And that really hurts clubs like us who rely on youth development income. I would not imagine there are many like Miller who is able to resist such approaches. Credit to him for that.

In his time in charge of our first team, what have you seen that suggests he is not the man for the job? Is his performance to date..although limited timewise... not relevant and to be ignored?

Well said and just about spot on. Why can't we aim for a Manager who accepts that both approaches are an option? Depending on a number of factors......opponents's style, injuries, league position etc. A Manager who is open to either approach is surely an asset. To a degree that lack of flexibility was a major factor in recent Managers being shown the door. We were far too predictable and made it easier for our opponents. Kettlewell's comments suggest he is open to either approach. So for me, and taking into account the evidence we have witnessed so far, I think he deserves his chance. Less of a risk than either of the other two for sure. It will soon become clear if he is a long term solution. We are not privy to Kettlewell's discussions with the Board, but it will be interesting to eventually discover what his vision of the way ahead is. Given his background I believe it will include youth development which has to be a priority for a Club like Motherwell. I'm not convinced either of the other two would look far beyond the first team. We need a Management team and Board working together across every aspect of the club. perhaps that what the ongoing discussions are about.

I think because it is the final of the League Cup, and overseen by the same body as the League, then suspensions cover both tournaments. The FA Cup is different with suspensions confined to that Cup. My understanding anyway. Our ex youth player, Bailey Rice, got his first team debut for Rangers today. Think he might be their youngest ever Premiership starter. A day after he captained Scotland U17s v Switzerland. And just to show we are not the only Club to lose kids ( with our without Agents involvement) to bigger, richer Clubs …a youngster called Rory Wilson scored a hat trick for Scotland in that game. He left Rangers for Villa in July. Fee £400k.

Paul Lambert. Soon if terms agreed.