dennyc

Isn't this fun. Better than working. For what it's worth and given that all seeds get through to the third round my calculation is Motherwell unseeded in pot 4 with the seeded teams being Standard Liege, St Etienne, Rosenborg, Utrecht, Estoril and Debrechen. France or Belgium would be my choice but not really a bad pairing if it works out like I think.

Yep. Split into 5 groups of ten or twelve teams with an even mix of seeds/non seeds. Don't know if details of the groupings is announced before the draw date. Seem to recall it was maybe a day or two before draw but could be wrong on that one.

Glad to help. Donation sent via Paypal. Good luck.

It was Law's decision to make and he chose Rangers. End of. I say good luck to him and thanks for taking a gamble and joining Motherwell two years ago. It's been fun having you on board. Cannot understand all the aggro now being shown towards him. Unlike some, he made his intention to move on perfectly clear and at no time has he tried to pull the wool over our eyes. Hateley and Humphrey for example have done absolutely nothing to clarify their situation. I too would have preferred Law to have gone elsewhere but it's what he wants that counts. As for lack of ambition, the same could have been said when he opted to move to Motherwell rather than one of the Championship and First Division sides that were reputedly keen to sign him. I'm certain there would have been people in England amazed at his decision then. Like any player who plays fair by us and then moves on I hope he goes from strength to strength and has a great career.

Well said St Mirren. Let's hope the media highlight just exactly what watered down compromise was offered re voting. Milne is a disgrace and his "suggestion" that the move away from a voting requirement of 11-1 covered all aspects can now be seen for the spiteful lie it was. Hope St Mirren are aware of the support they and County are receiving from fans across Scotland.......even Aberdeen dare I say it!

Thanks for the detailed update NWF. Much appreciated. Although I still disagree with the new set up I can now understand where the Club are coming from given the financial information they have been provided with. At the end of the day the future of MFC is my priority. I just hope the promise of a new sponsor and an improved/continuing Sky deal comes to be and that Doncaster and the rest are held to account if it's all bullshit. The one thing I cannot get my head round is how on earth £60k to £100k extra a year will eventually result in the likes of Morton, Raith Rovers etc being able to compete in an expanded top division. In football terms the sums involved are not life changing and, if we are to believe what we are told, the additional income may simply provide the safety net required to ensure survival of most of the current 1st Division clubs. Not a bad thing but please don't ask me to believe it will lead to any meaningful growth in these clubs or enable them to compete at a higher level. Ross County appear to have made the transition, but that seems to be the result of a generous benefactor providing the support required. Time only will tell if we ever move to a top division of 14 or more clubs but don't be surprised if we are still having this debate in 10 year's time.

Finally managed to get signed back in to MFC TV. They also agreed to extend my free access until 25 April to make up for time locked out . Suggest anybody who was locked out should ask for extra days to make up time lost. It can clearly be done.

Same story as Numpty. Also confirmation from providers confirming access to be reinstated following discussions with Alison. Old Promo Code could be used only once so they are working on getting that sorted out so I can log in again. Say they will get back to me when it's sorted. Alison was extremely helpful with this and to be honest it was only when she got involved that Customer Services changed their stance. Until that point I was being given the runaround.

Point taken Andy P, I could have made that a little clearer. Because I had severely criticised MFC for their lack of comment, I was actually encouraged to receive a reply from the Chief Exec and thought nothing odd about it. Guess I was just relieved to hear our club were telling us that no decision had been made as yet and thought people would latch onto that rather than debate the source

Leanne Dempster replied because I specifically mentioned her in my EMail and commented that it was disappointing we had not heard a word from her regarding the restructuring of the leagues. The paranoia on this site is unbelievable at times and is only outdone by the determination of a few to find negatives in everything.

Stephen Thompson of Dundee United now advising caution and confirming that they too have not been presented with a formal proposal for consideration. Does make you wonder about Lawwell's statement that the proposals have the full backing of all SPL teams. That's us and United saying they have not made any decision and are awaiting the formal proposal. Somebody's telling porkies. Make up your own mind.

Growing increasingly concerned at these crazy proposals being bulldozed through, i EMailed the Society to clarify whether discussions with the club had taken place and to ask whether members would be consulted. I also made comment to the effect that the silence from MFC was deafening. I received a very prompt response from Leanne Dempster advising that Motherwell had not been involved in the drawing up of the proposal and as yet had had no formal proposal provided to them by the working party (involving 7 SPL Clubs). Because they have not received this formal proposal, they have opted to make no comment to date. When the proposal is eventually placed before them, they will consider it in detail and also consult with the Well Society Board. I am aware that Petder Lawwell states he has full SPL backing but this does not fit in with what our club have told me. Given Mr Lawwell's performance in pushing the proposals throughout this whole saga, I have no doubt Leanne is being up front with us.. My major concern is that certain SPL officials and some of the media have an agenda to push this therough with minimal consultation being possible

Stand to be corrected, but I think Motherwell need to quickly offer Murphy (in writing) an improved contract before he agrees a pre contract or his existing one runs out). Then if he turns it down and moves on under Freedom of Contract ,the compensation calculation takes into account the higher wage offered. I seem to remember that Dundee Utd did that with Conway?? and maybe a few others to boost the amount due to them. There has to be a set formula for calculating the compensation amount....time at club, age, wage etc so you would hope that Motherwell could work out the likely income if he walks. £60k seems really pitiful and we must really be in a bad state financially if we accept that. As others have said, just finishing one place higher in the SPL with Murphy than we would finish without him brings in more than £60k. I hope we hold on to him, offer him an improved contract and take our chances with a tribunal.....unless someone is prepared to offer a realistic sum now which would be far higher than any compensation amount at contract end. There was a case in England where Everton failed to offer Dan Gosling a new contract (or at least they could not prove they had) which meant he walked for next to nothing when his Everton contract expired. Also, did we not shy away from signing a free agent this summer because his previous club would be due a small fortune? ..

Responded to Email from Alison on the day it came out. Advised that I could not attend and asked about the possibility of a postal or online vote. Six days later and still awaiting any sort of reply. Seems like it's something they had not considered.

Think the full back might be Alan Sneddon

Gaag I'm also staying at Crowne Plaza and I think I might be on same flights as you. Leaving Edin around 6pm on the Sunday and arriving Athens 2 ish on the Monday morning. BA flights. Flying back Thursday early afternoon. Up for a taxi share?

So if I understand this correctly ....The envelopes have been opened and the votes counted, without an independent person being present at the time of opening and counting. Surely the independent person should have been present there and then to verify all was above board. Instead we have...."Oh we'll just lock them in a drawer and get someone to check them in a few days." In any meaningful election that would resulted in a void return. No wonder folk believe in conspiracies. A shambles MFC!

For those fans who are willing to accept the NewCo being voted into the SPL in the belief that they will be hammered by the SFA for the use of Double Contracts or that sanctions will carry over from the OldCo, please consider the following chain of events. 1. On July 4, the SPL clubs vote YES for whatever reason .........fear, uncertainty, bullying, media pressure to name a few. No going back... The Rangers are in. 2. At some later date, but before the season starts, the SFA wish to apply appropriate sanctions because of the misconduct of the Old Rangers. 3. New Rangers challenge the sanctions on the basis that the NewCo cannot be punished in law for the dealings of the Old Rangers. There is a very good chance that the NewCo would win the legal arguement. In fact, the SFA have already stated that one of the reasons for the delay in holding Rangers to account is to clarify that exact point. In other words, even the SFA have doubts as to whether the NewCo can be penalised. ...........but they are already in End result. Debt free Rangers in the SPL with a war chest to spend on new players (Green's own words). No points deduction. The unholy alliance with Celtic intact. No chance of change regarding Voting Structure or Revenue Sharing. And Motherwell? Exactly where we are now. Cutting our Budget. With no hope of a fairer deal regarding the shareout of SPL monies. The gap between us and the Old Firm widening by the day. There is a view that The Rangers could be forced to accept sanctions/changes as a condition for SPL membership. But why would Rangers accept that arrangement? Rangers are well aware the other clubs are shit scared of an SPL without both Old Firm. They can use that to their advantage and refuse to compromise. This is a chance in a lifetime chance to change the SPL for the better. It has to a NO.

A feeling of total dismay upon reading the club statement. I agree with others that it seems our Club have already decided to vote to allow the NewCo to start off in the SPL, with the planned Forum being used merely as a means to justify a very unpopular decision. I really do feel the wishes of the majority of Motherwell fans are about to be ignored. All the reasoning provided in the Statement was geared to a "Yes" vote. Also, to say that the vote might even prove pointless as the SFA may demote RFC in any event is misleading and insulting in the extreme. The new Rangers may win their argument that it is not legal to penalise the NewCo for the actions of a the old Company. We all know that it really is the same Organisation, but in Law it is two separate Companies. So that will support the NewCo's case. Even the SFA seem to have doubts about whether they can carry any sanctions over to the NewCo. If the SPL clubs do not refuse Rangers application, they could easily kick of the new season with no sanctions other than the 3 year ban from Europe. Some will suggest that Rangers be forced to accept sanctions,changes to voting structure and a fairer division of revenue as a condition of SPL membership and use that as a justification for a Yes vote. But the changes could be made in any event if the NewCo was refused SPL entry and Celtic were faced with a united approach from the other eleven SPL members. As someone who has supported the current Board throughout this entire saga I now feel totally betrayed by the people in whom I placed my trust

From the Bert Kassies site which tracks European qualification, co-efficients etc. Allowing for seeded teams qualifying from Qualifying Rounds 1 & 2 Ten countries represented in Non Champions Qualifying Round 3 Scotland, Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Greece, Denmark and Roumania. Each country is ranked by it's own co-efficiant which determines which qualifying stage that country's representative comes in at. Scotland's ranking as a result of all Scottish teams record over the years is why the Scottish non champions come in at round 3. BUT..... each individual club side also has it's own co-efficient which determines seeds and non seeds on a round by round basis. For info Motherwell are ranked at 6.728 wheras Barcalona are at 157.78. From the above list of ten countries, we will definately be one of the 5 non seeded teams as there are at least 5 countries whose lowest ranked sides score higher than Motherwell. By the same calculation the teams who eventually qualify from Portugal and Ukraine will be seeded as even their lowest ranked teams are in the top 5. So....... Definately seeded : Teams from Ukraine and Portugal. Definately non seeded : Motherwell. Whether the remaining teams are seeded or non seeded depends on who qualifies from each country. Three seeded places are up for grabs. If we were really lucky teams from Belgium, Netherlands and Denmark could yet be seeded avoiding a trip to Russia or Turkey. That depends on teams with no real European record qualifying from Russia/Ukraine and better known teams qualifying from the rest. If we were able to get through just the one round of the CL, the money on offer is ridiculous. I believe it's somewhere between one and two million for going out at final qualifying round stage.....and you drop straight into a Europa League Group placing . Fall at the first hurdle and the money is a fair bit less and you enter the final qualifying stage for the Europa League. The financial payouts per year are usually listed on the Eufa site. That's my reading of things anyway. Feel free to disagree.

From recent posts it appears Rangers have been found guilty of illegal payments to players via second contracts which were not authorised by the SFA/SPL. I must have missed that announcement. When and if they are found guilty they should be punished and demoted as has happened in other countries where corruption and cheating has been proven....Italy, France leap to mind. So far all that is confirmed is that Rangers are in Administration because they were living outwith their means, part of which included paying ridiculous wages to attract supposed better class players than opposing teams. I understand why that is looked upon as cheating to gain an advantage. But if that view has merit, then surely Hearts, Celtic and every team that has run up a massive bank debt or relies on a Sugar Daddy to keep the club afloat falls into the same category. I guess that's why Eufa are attempting to bring in strict financial guidelines based on turnover. And don't forget Motherwell were reportedly paying Goram, Spencer and the like £6000 a game when clearly the Club could not afford it. Subsequent events proved that. Rangers have been punished for entering Administration and will be further punished if they are still in Administration when the new season starts.. If they Liquidate before then and a Newco is somehow allowed to remain in the SPL it will definately leave a very sour taste in the mouth of every non Rangers fan. I don't understand why a points penalty cannot still be applied in that situation. The trade off must be a fairer division of revenue and a more democratic voting system. Motherwell and all the other "Diddy Teams" should end up in a much better situation overall than if the Rangers melt down had not happened. Yes, we all detest Rangers, Celtic and all the shite that they bring to Scottish football.I would love it if they just upped and left. But that isn't going to happen any time soon so we need to get all that we can realistically get out of this situation.

SteveDiggle raises a good point as usual. There are two separate issues that must be addressed. 1. Rangers financial situation 2. Rangers flaunting of SPL Contract regulations (cheating in other words) All the current talk seems to be focused on (1) and the various penalties that should be imposed for going down the Administration or Liquidation routes. These penalties relate only to the financial difficulties that Rangers have got themselves into and in no way take into account the (as yet unproven) flaunting of SPL rules regarding contracts and under the counter payments to players. Many clubs have encountered or will encounter financial problems so it is a good idea to clarify once and for all what sanctions would apply. We may all have different views on the penalties that should be imposed but the introduction of firm guidelines is a sound idea. But what of (2) the alleged breach of Contract regulations? Some sort of punishment must be dished out if Rangers are found to have disregarded the rules by which we were all meant to play. I fear that any "cheating" will be ignored completely by the SPL Board as everyone gets caught up in the Newco situation. It's clear that Rangers...old or new...will feature in the SPL next year so how about a further 20? point deduction for each of the next two years if contract misconduct is proven. If Rangers take the huff and elect to apply to the SFL and work their way back up, so be it. But the penalty should still be applied when they eventually play their way back up. I think I am correct in saying that the SPL (or perhaps the SFA) instructed an enquiry into the Contract allegations. Wonder why we have heard nothing more on that front. Anyone care to bet that........New Company....Slate wiped clean...Carry on chaps with a meaningless 10 point penalty. The best that will happen is that the Diddy teams stick together and force through new voting rules and a fair distribution of cash based on League position as a condition of allowing Rangers to remain in the SPL .

Clearly the other ten teams are trying to utilise the Rangers situation to address the inbalances that currently exist in areas such as voting criteria and TV monies. Let's give them credit for that. Rangers have given the good guys a means to achieve a giant step forward with regards to fairness and equality. If they stick together they can succeed now where other attempts have been thwarted by the Old Firm alliance. So far, the only thing that has been proven is that Rangers are in severe financial dificulties and are in Administration. Given the apparant agreement of the players to accept binding wage cuts, it is by no means certain that Liquidation will happen soon if at all. That will probably depend on the outcome of the tax case regarding offshore payments. Even then the Revenue will likely do a deal as they will get next to nothing if Rangers are Liquidated. The Revenue are more interested in establishing the principle so they can then go after the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal. Everything else regarding contracts, illegal payments etc is only at the allegation stage. Iif proven, I agree Rangers should be penalised by the SPL/SFA to the maximum level allowed under current rules. Like most people I would be far from happy were they to escape without any meaningful sanction. Funnily enough, there is a growing support amongst Rangers fans for starting in the bottom Division and working their way back up rather than remaing in the SPL with a points penalty of 20 points or so for a number of seasons. Will I boycott the club I have supported through thick and thin for over forty years if I disagree with the eventual outcome? No way. What I hope for is a better deal all round which will benefit Motherwell, my club. Will I withdraw my support for The Well Society? No way. We have the most progressive, forward thinking Board in the League and the success of this Scheme should ensure we do not end up in the same mess as Rangers are in now (and which we were in not that long ago). If Rangers are demoted and we lose income as a result, we will be relieved this Contigeancy Fund is available for short term funding. Talking to Fans of other clubs and explaining the reasoning behind the project, without exception they think it is the way forward.

Draw was made at Half Time. Did not here how much was raised though. They announced that winning numbers would be posted on the official site

Initially mostost of the Well fans were totally unaware these guys were around. As I said, they were apart from the rest of us. For those that can remember the layout...they were on the wall just beyond the Cash Machine for at least an hour before they were lifted. We only became aware of them because we had left Ryans to go for a look round and when we got back we sat on the same wall to grab a sandwich before setting out for the game. We quickly moved back down to where the majority of the fans were. Later, when the police moved in, we told a few folk what had happened but there was no point in making a big thing of it because the police were dealing with it. I only posted some facts on here because a few of the comments suggested some sympathy for the guys who got lifted.