dennyc

A feeling of total dismay upon reading the club statement. I agree with others that it seems our Club have already decided to vote to allow the NewCo to start off in the SPL, with the planned Forum being used merely as a means to justify a very unpopular decision. I really do feel the wishes of the majority of Motherwell fans are about to be ignored. All the reasoning provided in the Statement was geared to a "Yes" vote. Also, to say that the vote might even prove pointless as the SFA may demote RFC in any event is misleading and insulting in the extreme. The new Rangers may win their argument that it is not legal to penalise the NewCo for the actions of a the old Company. We all know that it really is the same Organisation, but in Law it is two separate Companies. So that will support the NewCo's case. Even the SFA seem to have doubts about whether they can carry any sanctions over to the NewCo. If the SPL clubs do not refuse Rangers application, they could easily kick of the new season with no sanctions other than the 3 year ban from Europe. Some will suggest that Rangers be forced to accept sanctions,changes to voting structure and a fairer division of revenue as a condition of SPL membership and use that as a justification for a Yes vote. But the changes could be made in any event if the NewCo was refused SPL entry and Celtic were faced with a united approach from the other eleven SPL members. As someone who has supported the current Board throughout this entire saga I now feel totally betrayed by the people in whom I placed my trust

From the Bert Kassies site which tracks European qualification, co-efficients etc. Allowing for seeded teams qualifying from Qualifying Rounds 1 & 2 Ten countries represented in Non Champions Qualifying Round 3 Scotland, Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Greece, Denmark and Roumania. Each country is ranked by it's own co-efficiant which determines which qualifying stage that country's representative comes in at. Scotland's ranking as a result of all Scottish teams record over the years is why the Scottish non champions come in at round 3. BUT..... each individual club side also has it's own co-efficient which determines seeds and non seeds on a round by round basis. For info Motherwell are ranked at 6.728 wheras Barcalona are at 157.78. From the above list of ten countries, we will definately be one of the 5 non seeded teams as there are at least 5 countries whose lowest ranked sides score higher than Motherwell. By the same calculation the teams who eventually qualify from Portugal and Ukraine will be seeded as even their lowest ranked teams are in the top 5. So....... Definately seeded : Teams from Ukraine and Portugal. Definately non seeded : Motherwell. Whether the remaining teams are seeded or non seeded depends on who qualifies from each country. Three seeded places are up for grabs. If we were really lucky teams from Belgium, Netherlands and Denmark could yet be seeded avoiding a trip to Russia or Turkey. That depends on teams with no real European record qualifying from Russia/Ukraine and better known teams qualifying from the rest. If we were able to get through just the one round of the CL, the money on offer is ridiculous. I believe it's somewhere between one and two million for going out at final qualifying round stage.....and you drop straight into a Europa League Group placing . Fall at the first hurdle and the money is a fair bit less and you enter the final qualifying stage for the Europa League. The financial payouts per year are usually listed on the Eufa site. That's my reading of things anyway. Feel free to disagree.

From recent posts it appears Rangers have been found guilty of illegal payments to players via second contracts which were not authorised by the SFA/SPL. I must have missed that announcement. When and if they are found guilty they should be punished and demoted as has happened in other countries where corruption and cheating has been proven....Italy, France leap to mind. So far all that is confirmed is that Rangers are in Administration because they were living outwith their means, part of which included paying ridiculous wages to attract supposed better class players than opposing teams. I understand why that is looked upon as cheating to gain an advantage. But if that view has merit, then surely Hearts, Celtic and every team that has run up a massive bank debt or relies on a Sugar Daddy to keep the club afloat falls into the same category. I guess that's why Eufa are attempting to bring in strict financial guidelines based on turnover. And don't forget Motherwell were reportedly paying Goram, Spencer and the like £6000 a game when clearly the Club could not afford it. Subsequent events proved that. Rangers have been punished for entering Administration and will be further punished if they are still in Administration when the new season starts.. If they Liquidate before then and a Newco is somehow allowed to remain in the SPL it will definately leave a very sour taste in the mouth of every non Rangers fan. I don't understand why a points penalty cannot still be applied in that situation. The trade off must be a fairer division of revenue and a more democratic voting system. Motherwell and all the other "Diddy Teams" should end up in a much better situation overall than if the Rangers melt down had not happened. Yes, we all detest Rangers, Celtic and all the shite that they bring to Scottish football.I would love it if they just upped and left. But that isn't going to happen any time soon so we need to get all that we can realistically get out of this situation.

SteveDiggle raises a good point as usual. There are two separate issues that must be addressed. 1. Rangers financial situation 2. Rangers flaunting of SPL Contract regulations (cheating in other words) All the current talk seems to be focused on (1) and the various penalties that should be imposed for going down the Administration or Liquidation routes. These penalties relate only to the financial difficulties that Rangers have got themselves into and in no way take into account the (as yet unproven) flaunting of SPL rules regarding contracts and under the counter payments to players. Many clubs have encountered or will encounter financial problems so it is a good idea to clarify once and for all what sanctions would apply. We may all have different views on the penalties that should be imposed but the introduction of firm guidelines is a sound idea. But what of (2) the alleged breach of Contract regulations? Some sort of punishment must be dished out if Rangers are found to have disregarded the rules by which we were all meant to play. I fear that any "cheating" will be ignored completely by the SPL Board as everyone gets caught up in the Newco situation. It's clear that Rangers...old or new...will feature in the SPL next year so how about a further 20? point deduction for each of the next two years if contract misconduct is proven. If Rangers take the huff and elect to apply to the SFL and work their way back up, so be it. But the penalty should still be applied when they eventually play their way back up. I think I am correct in saying that the SPL (or perhaps the SFA) instructed an enquiry into the Contract allegations. Wonder why we have heard nothing more on that front. Anyone care to bet that........New Company....Slate wiped clean...Carry on chaps with a meaningless 10 point penalty. The best that will happen is that the Diddy teams stick together and force through new voting rules and a fair distribution of cash based on League position as a condition of allowing Rangers to remain in the SPL .

Clearly the other ten teams are trying to utilise the Rangers situation to address the inbalances that currently exist in areas such as voting criteria and TV monies. Let's give them credit for that. Rangers have given the good guys a means to achieve a giant step forward with regards to fairness and equality. If they stick together they can succeed now where other attempts have been thwarted by the Old Firm alliance. So far, the only thing that has been proven is that Rangers are in severe financial dificulties and are in Administration. Given the apparant agreement of the players to accept binding wage cuts, it is by no means certain that Liquidation will happen soon if at all. That will probably depend on the outcome of the tax case regarding offshore payments. Even then the Revenue will likely do a deal as they will get next to nothing if Rangers are Liquidated. The Revenue are more interested in establishing the principle so they can then go after the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal. Everything else regarding contracts, illegal payments etc is only at the allegation stage. Iif proven, I agree Rangers should be penalised by the SPL/SFA to the maximum level allowed under current rules. Like most people I would be far from happy were they to escape without any meaningful sanction. Funnily enough, there is a growing support amongst Rangers fans for starting in the bottom Division and working their way back up rather than remaing in the SPL with a points penalty of 20 points or so for a number of seasons. Will I boycott the club I have supported through thick and thin for over forty years if I disagree with the eventual outcome? No way. What I hope for is a better deal all round which will benefit Motherwell, my club. Will I withdraw my support for The Well Society? No way. We have the most progressive, forward thinking Board in the League and the success of this Scheme should ensure we do not end up in the same mess as Rangers are in now (and which we were in not that long ago). If Rangers are demoted and we lose income as a result, we will be relieved this Contigeancy Fund is available for short term funding. Talking to Fans of other clubs and explaining the reasoning behind the project, without exception they think it is the way forward.

Draw was made at Half Time. Did not here how much was raised though. They announced that winning numbers would be posted on the official site

Initially mostost of the Well fans were totally unaware these guys were around. As I said, they were apart from the rest of us. For those that can remember the layout...they were on the wall just beyond the Cash Machine for at least an hour before they were lifted. We only became aware of them because we had left Ryans to go for a look round and when we got back we sat on the same wall to grab a sandwich before setting out for the game. We quickly moved back down to where the majority of the fans were. Later, when the police moved in, we told a few folk what had happened but there was no point in making a big thing of it because the police were dealing with it. I only posted some facts on here because a few of the comments suggested some sympathy for the guys who got lifted.

About an hour before they got lifted, me and my wife had the misfortune to be standing next to the so called fans. We lasted about 5 minutes before we moved on, embarrassed and disgusted. The group...not one item of claret and amber to be seen.....were well tanked up and shouting abuse at any local who happened to pass by.Kids, Women, Older folk all received the treatment. The last straw was when one shouted in the face of a black guy....."Fuck off you black bastard!" As Mr Benitez used to say......FACT. Not surprised at all the police got involved.....only disappointed it took so long. Guess the locals who were abused were too frightened to make a complaint. As for them being well fans..... They stood apart from everyone else, wore no colours, did not join in the celebrations and were clearly looking for trouble. Just glad they ended up having a go at each other and not some innocent passer by. Pity they are still not locked up in Odense. Hopefully, the Club will ban them for life ( wonder how many times they have actually set foot in Fir Park ). How some of the apologists on here can even think of defending them and having a go at the police is laughable.

Well said Leeann and thanks for taking the time to respond to the moaners. Like other posters I have travelled to a number away games on the club Charter and to some under my own steam.....on this occasion I am travelling from Newcastle and staying four days. I have always felt the Charter was good value for money and the only reason I travel independently from time to time is to spend a little more time in the places we visit. Each supporter who travels will have different needs and the club cannot cover them all. The fact that you do anything at all places you ahead of many other clubs. It's encouraging that you and others at the club continue to listen to what the fans say and of course there are valid points you can pick up on...........OAP concessions at home Europa games for instance. I wonder how many times Executives of the so called bigger clubs take time out to read and respond to forums such as this. Or how many club owners would even think of taking the time to join supporters (Non Charter) for a pint and a chat as John Boyle did in Norway. However you will NEVER please everyone no matter how hard you try so try not to get too frustrated. I am sure most fair minded fans will agree with me that you are doing a fantastic job in what is a exceptionally difficult for the cub financially. Keep up the good work and keep taking the tablets.

+2 = 92

Well said Stuwell. Good to see some common sense being shown and some reality brought to the debate. The club are not ripping off the vast majority of us. You regularly pay more to watch games as away fans at places like Tannadice. The only valid complaint is that there is no concession for OAPs. Hopefully the club will read this thread and sort that out as that would be fair and the cost would be minimal. Or perhaps we should just let everyone in for free and watch the club we love go to the wall.

£10 donation sent today via Paypal. Dennyc

Coventry boards say 200k and a three year deal. Good luck Juke and thanks for all you did for the 'Well. Hopefully withRuddy and Juke getting good contracts as a direct result of starring at Fir Park, other class players might be encouraged to give us a go.

Might be wrong but I don't think there are pots this season which is a change from previous draws. This time it is down to seeds v non seeds. Bangor would mean a nice wee return to Wales which would result in a good travelling support as easy to get to and back from North Wales in a day if need be.

Went into the Cooper for a pre match pint as usual. I am a ST holder but no one paid any attention as me and my mate walked straight in and up the stairs. No attempt whatsoever to ask for Season Tickets, so clearly any checking is random. This was about 45 minutes before kick off when you would expect the place to be fairly busy. Surprise surprise the place was the quietest it has been all season. Not even a queue at the bar! Now I know why. If there is now a policy in place to limit entry then it's certainly effective. Crazy. IMO the Cooper should be open to all. After all we all support the same team and spend the same currency. Limiting it to ST holders only is economic madness and makes no sense whatsoever. If anyone chooses to arrive later....ST holder or not... on and finds the place full, then tough. Get there earlier next time. Most pubs, clubs etc would be delighted to have a full house. Looks like MFC shooting themselves in the foot by over reacting to a one off complaint from a ST holder who threw his teddy out the pram. MFC....Get this sorted.

If the team finishing 3rd or 4th in the league qualifies for the Europa League via the cup, then the 5th position in the league also qualifies. Same applies if the two cup finalists qualify for the Champions League. A case for hoping for a Rangers Celtic final I guess. In short, if Raith or Ross County don't reach the final, 5th place is ok for Europe.

Ruddy, Jennings and Reynolds were stand outs. Going for Ruddy because yet again we avoided defeat due mainly to his determination to not concede.. What an example he sets! In the past, we have lost games like this one.

Yes to Jack and Victor until the end of the season at least. That's fair to both the club and the two of them. Then everybody....including us....will have a better idea of the way ahead. But I will say this. Set aside yesterday's result and look instead at the good, positive feeling that was plain for all to see. And it was the same at Tynecastle even without a win. The players on the pitch, the subs, the players not selected, the management team and the fans were all one team. Brown and Knox deserve credit for that. Sure, most of the players and staff were on a high with Gannon leaving but the wrong approach from the new guys would have been a disaster. That's where their experience and leadership skills showed they were the correct appointments. No doubt there will be some disappointments before the end of the season but Craig and Archie know what is needed to keep us up and hopefully challenge for the top six. Remembering our performances leading up to Gannon's departure the future seems a lot brighter now. We are in safe hands and it's plain to see the players are responding well to the new regime.

Well said that man! For Christ's sake let's get real. Sure, we should have more points but almost every other team could say the same. That's football. Had we been offered the situation as it is today after McGhee and most of the first team left we would have grabbed it and been delighted. Just shows how far we have come in such a short time that we are disappointed when we fail to beat teams who should be far more established than us. And as for too many draws..........if we draw our next three matches would we really be that disappointed? Then again, when we win all three..........

Gerson of Flamenco who went on to star in the great Brazil world cup winning side of 1970. Flamenco played us in 1960 and Gerson started with them from 1959 to 1963. A goal in the 1970 WC final must mean he tops the list. The boy done good.

Don't blame the Ref and don't blame the players. Blame the immature shite that continue to bring shame to the club. Even when Bill Dickie tries to point out that they are doing Motherwell serious damage what happens? Yeah, that's right. The idiots respond by chucking stuff at opposition players. Very clever! Do the decent thing and just stay away.

As someone who currently works in Edinburgh I have to agree with Special AKA...it has to be Hearts. Probably for much the same reasons. Many of my workmates support Hearts and work is a nightmare when they are on a good run. Then again, I guess I might just be a little OTT when we beat them. The Cup Semi springs to mind. Payback for the Texaco Cup robbery in my eyes.Funnily enough Hibs and their fans do not have the same effect. After Hearts I just love it when we take anything from Rangers and Celtic. As for more local rivalry, who could possibly prefer beating Accies to tanking Hearts, Rangers or Celtic. And Airdrie are irrelevant except when we need to borrow their midden for a wee while.

We all know that the media...and I include TV and Radio as well as the Press... are not interested in keeping anyone other than Old Firm fans up to date regarding injuries to their teams players. Kyle Lafferty and Scott Brown in the past couple of days are classic examples. Motherwell themselves should make the effort to keep us informed. On Saturday not one person I spoke to could shed any light on why Hutch did not feature. How about updates being put on the official web site on a regular basis? I gather from posts in other threads that some of you guys work at Fir Park so how about taking the matter up on behalf of those fans who are not so well placed.

Well said Supersub. Spot on. I go back even further and can only recall being as excited about upcoming games when it used to be Willie P and Bobby G running the OF ragged. The Cup winning season was also great but this is a different kind of excitement. Guess it's just good knowing we may have a crack at building a team well worth paying good money to watch. Early days I know, but how good does it feel to be a Motherwell fan just now. Thanks JG and all your backroom team.

£10 sent via Paypal. Great idea by the way.