Alpha1886

Have still to watch any replays of sending off. My first reaction was that Kelly would have got to ball well before Porteous. So it wasn’t a goal scoring opportunity. But no excuse for Shields committing foul since Porteous still had to score past Kelly- no stick on there - and there was still 40 minutes to play.

And that’s where the linesman was positioned and he gave it - not the referee.

Can you then explain why he bothered to get results against StMirren, Livingston, Ross County and Hearts to get to 5th place?

The bois should get it for keeping chants and support going even at 0-2. Some older ‘fans’ could learn from them.

Didn’t say it was not a red. But if it were would like a explanation why Hatate’s was not.

Can someone please explain why Mugabe’s tackle merited a red card and the one by Hatate(?) in tonight’s game gets a yellow? Rhetorical question - I’m sure I know the answer.

Player on back post might have stopped the goal. Anyone know if we normally put a player on the post. Can’t say offhand myself.

No

Make that 4 wrong decisions - well ones that had a major affect on the game. McAllister’s tackle on McGinley deserved a red card, not a yellow.

In the championship?

Fwiw Clarke was probably protecting O'Donnell by not playing him at Hampden because a sizeable number of 'fans' would have been quick to get at him and blame him for everything that went wrong. Much the same as some of the fans on this forum even when he's playing for the 'Well. Thought Patterson gave the ball away, was caught in possession and was out of position in first-half alone more times than O'Donnell has been in his last 6 plus games for Scotland. As Weeyin said Patterson's (lack of) defending led to first goal.

Agree - but The SPFL is operated as a corporation and is owned by the 42 member clubs. Each club is a shareholder, with each having a vote on issues such as rule changes and contracts. The clubs elect a six-man board of directors to oversee the daily operations of the league.

When will the SFA publish the reasons for the appeals being upheld? Don't know how much influence Doncaster has in these shenanigans - think he's only a (well-paid) lackey/ spokesperson/figurehead of the SPFL. And the SPFL is the clubs and the clubs are the SPFL. It was an SPFL tribunal who decided on the 'punishment' but an SFA judicial panel who upheld the appeals. Ian Maxwell is CE of the SFA. So who is in charge of what? BTW the SPFL clubs voted not to allow the SPFL board to put rules in place before the start of this season. The machinations of Scottish football make make Kafka's novels appear to be written for children.

Having watched replay frame by frame several times what I see Seedorf doing , if anything, is tryng to avoid the ball. How the ref or linesman could see what happened from their positions I don't know. But they then do what Scottish refs usually do - make a guess and get it wrong. And the reaction of the Hibs keeper says it all. He's blaming his defender.

Offside offence A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by: interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or interfering with an opponent by: preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or challenging an opponent for the ball or clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball Seedorf was doing none of the above. He was in an offside position but that is NOT an offence. If the defender had miskicked on half-way line and Seedorf was behind him then play would have continued. So between them ref and linesman got it wrong. Par for the course for Scottish refereeing. Would have heard more about it if it had been one of the ugly sisters.

Smith deliberately and violently blooters the ball point blank range into Seedoorf who is lying defenceless on the ground after being fouled by Smith well after Madden has blown for a foul. That's not being hard - that's the act of a coward/thug. Should have been red for violent conduct by itself. Seedorf jumps up to confront Smith as anyone would and puts his hands on Smith's throat while Smith is aggressively mocking him. Then Smith pushes his hand into Seedorf's face which is another straight red offence. All this happens right in front of referee, assistant referee and fourth official. So sum of their 3 brains and competence equals SFA. Although maybe they took into account Levein's input.

So referee, assistant referee and fourth official who were all close to the incident and in communication with one another all got it wrong. Will they be demoted? IMO Carroll tackled with wrong leg (because he is naturally left footed) and therefore mistimed it. Nothing sinister. End of.

So how do they work? Do they watch every second of every game? if so how? Please enlighten.

We couldn't make game. Avoided score and watched game 'live' on Alba. Still ended up screaming at ref. Awarded 22 fouls to Dundee and 11 to us. Booked 1 of them (guess who?) and 3 of ours. Fed up that refs do not have to answer to anyone and get well paid for it. ( Maybe Lennon is right for once and refs should be sent off (although I don't recall him having a go at same ref, I think, when he gave Hibs penalty and booked Tait for diving in 2-2 game at Easter Road this season.)) Agree the game was of a poor standard but that can be down to approach of other team and us not being good enough to raise our game to a higher level. But thought we more than cancelled out Dundee and the movement for the goal was at least decent. Their main threat (apart from their right winger) came from free-kicks (see above) and corner kicks which we dealt with fairly well, down to our organisation and concentration (and Carson coming for crosses.) Sympathy for Ciftci. We couldn't seem to get him into game in right area of park. To me we want him with ball at his feet in final third of the park where he's effective. Think he gets frustrated when not involved and is actually trying too hard to make things happen by dropping too deep - not just at Dundee, also against Killie. Although our style of play also asks our forwards to track back. Watching him closely against Killie it's not lack of effort - against Accies he was part of the pressing that led to own goal and he won the ball to make second goal against Ross County but both times in final third. Agree that Bowman was more effective when he came on but that may have been down to how both games developed. And I was ready to put bet on that ref was going to send Ciftci off so it was the right move to sub him.