MJC

That’s Livi taken four points out of six against Celtic this season. Amazing, when you consider the difference in budgets, eh?

For as long as I’ve been watching football, not just Scottish football, defending teams will get the benefit of the doubt nine times out of ten when there is shirt pulling by both attackers and defenders at corners and free kicks into the box. I don’t like it and I don’t think it’s fair but that’s been the case, at least up until where VAR has been introduced in certain countries. However on the flip side of that, going by the rules of the game, if there is any contact on an attacking player by a defender inside the box - out with a corner/free kick - then that will result in a penalty kick - Scott Sinclair in the 2017 LCF being the obvious example -. Likewise with any situation where a defender “has his hand in an unnatural position” as we saw when we played Rangers at FP last September will more often than not result in a penalty award. I’m not saying that I think it’s right or even that I agree with it, but it is in the rules so if you want to blame anyone then blame those who make these ridiculous rules. I think the ‘issue’ that alot of people are taking with the Rangers penalty on Wednesday night isn’t whether it was justified or not, it is simply that Rangers got a penalty, full stop. For as long as I can remember, any decision that goes Rangers way, especially a penalty, seems to result in 10x more hysteria and media scrutiny than a similar decision that goes the way of any other side (even Celtic) goes. As has already been said, we ourselves were on the wrong side of a very harsh penalty decision on Wednesday night. And if that wasn’t enough our keeper saved the penalty only for the referee to - again very harshly - order a re-take. But I don’t see anyone claiming that that was down to some sort of cheating or broader conspiracies. Would that have been the case had it been Rangers, or even Celtic, that had benefited of such decisions???

It was a penalty. It was soft but under the laws of the game it was a penalty. The defender was holding the attacking players jersey inside the box so if the rules are applied then a penalty has to be awarded in that scenario.

Correct. This nonsensical theory that match officials are out to help Rangers and will invent a decision in their favour should they need one is schoolboy patter and doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever. I remember the same chat on forums before the playoff, that there was “absolutely no chance we would be allowed to win and the referees will do everything in their power to ensure Rangers were promoted.” If there was ever going to be a time where the referees and the authorities were going to go out of their way to help Rangers, this was it surely? And over the two games, despite having Madden for the 1st leg and Craig Thomson for the 2nd, we weren’t done over by any dodgy decisions. Indeed they had a goal disallowed (correctly, I know) at Ibrox when the score was 3-1, surely a perfect opportunity for Madden to ‘help’ Rangers get back in the game? And then Thomson actually denied them what looked like a decent penalty shout at 0-0 at Fir Park. Again, a referee ‘out to help Rangers’ wouldn’t pass up on such an opportunity to point to the spot and get them back in the tie? Maybe, just maybe the world isn’t out to get us and if we maybe didn’t make rash challenges in and around the box then the referee won’t have the chance to give them penalties or free kicks.

Agreed. Having seen it from different angles then I have to say that I was wrong and that the decision was harsh.

You can call it whatever you like, it’s an excuse. Everyone knows and accepts that they have a bigger budget and therefore are more likely than not to beat us. But we as a club always seem to look at these games as playing the name, or the budget if you prefer, rather than what is in front of us on the park. Yes they have better players, but in one off games if we are to have any hope of getting a result then we can’t just focus on budgets and basically write the game off beforehand. Dundee Utd have already beaten Rangers this season. Ourselves, Hearts and Aberdeen have taken points from them. Hearts and Livingston have beaten Celtic this season. None of these sides have anywhere near the budgets that the Old Firm do either.

Referees make mistakes in every single game. Every single game. They make bad calls on penalties, bookings, the lot. Having watched the highlights back it is clear to me that we ourselves suffered a couple of glaringly bad calls. Yet you are on here describing a decision in a match that had nothing to do with us as “an avalanche”. And on the budget issue, again I accept that the sides with bigger budgets will always win the majority of games and thus, the trophies. That happens in every country all over the world. However as I said we have some in our club and support who use this as a pre-made excuse for not getting results against them in one off games every time we play them. This is why, imo, other clubs have been able to beat both of them (in one off games, not to win the league title) all in the same time that we have failed miserably to do so.

I have to add as well, that is absolute bullshit. This is another pre-made excuse that people have “the refs are all pro-Rangers/Old Firm”. Yes we have suffered bad decisions against them both over the years but you appear to be suggesting that these are premeditated and/or personal by Rangers supporting officials or a wider conspiracy. As we saw ourselves last night, refereeing standards in Scottish football are absolutely horrific. We were two goals up, albeit not outplaying St.Mirren, yet only came away with a draw and a lot of that was down to Madden making two poor calls regarding a penalty and a re-take. Are you describing that as an ‘avalanche’ as well? Or do you just accept, as I think the majority did that it was just another in a long line of dire decisions by an incompetent match official? Had that been Rangers, or Celtic for that matter that we had been playing last night and conceded a penalty like that, our keeper then saved it only for the ref to order a re-take then half this board would be up in arms about conspiracies and “Brother Bobby won’t have to buy a pint down the lodge this week” and other such pish like that. Bad decisions happen, the referees are largely useless but like the budget excuse it’s just another cop out for not getting results in games against Rangers or Celtic.

No one is disputing the differences in budgets and yes, because of that we will lose more often than not against them. But we as a club and as a support seem to use this as a pre-made excuse every time before we play them and it’s no coincidence therefore that we haven’t won a league match against Rangers for almost twenty years and have lost our last nine straight games against Celtic without laying a glove on them. All at the same time as other sides of similar stature have beaten Rangers regularly and Ross County, to give an example, have knocked Celtic out of Cup competitions three times in the last 12 years. We need to stop focussing on budgets and just concentrate on what is in front of us on the park. FFS, I even remember some on here using the budget excuse when we went to Ibrox as league leaders in 2012 and they were in the third division and we duly bent over for them. It’s pathetic and it’s one of the biggest problems that we have as a club.

Absolutely has to be Watt for me. Again he showed that he is the only player in that team capable of making a positive difference in games.

I think we could be best described as a ‘workmanlike’ side who are awful to watch. The problem is that while we have workmanlike players in the middle like Slattery, like O’Hara, even Grimshaw, we have no one to balance that out with a bit of flair or footballing quality. Any one of those three would be a lot more effective if we had a Turnbull (obviously an extreme example, granted) or a (January - April 2019) Hastie in the side to offer something a bit different. At the back, and I’ve said it for a while, but we need to get O’Donnell out of that team and get that captains armband off him. He is an absolute imposter in our colours and costs us more often than not.

From what I’ve seen and heard of them this season they have been struggling to create chances, much like ourselves. And when we played them at Ibrox we matched them up in the middle and they didn’t like it. I don’t see GA changing much, if anything, in the way of lineups, tactics etc but I actually think this is the type of game where his ‘trusted’ system might work for us. It would be great to finally win a league match against them though, but as a wise poster on here once said “Motherwell do not beat Rangers”.

I actually wouldn’t be surprised if we got a point from this one. 0-0

Our midfield is pish. We clearly don’t have the players to go with a three man midfield as GA wants to do. Apart from anything else we are just too slow in that area for that to be effective and teams just run over the top of us.

From that picture it looks like both feet are off the line, albeit the right foot is close.

That’s what I take from the game too. We were dreadful for the majority and looked second best, yet we managed to find ourselves in a very winnable position thanks to the one player we have who is capable of making a difference only to throw it away as soon as we were put under any pressure. As a team we are utterly dismal.

Context is everything when it comes to draws. And if you are 2-0 up at home with fifteen minutes left and you don’t win then that is two point thrown away. Never mind whether you think the penalty decision was harsh( I’ve not seen it again so can’t say) or whether the re-take was harsh (again, I’ve not seen it again but reports on here and Twitter suggest that Kelly was off his line when the ball was struck, in which case that would have made it the correct decision), we were in a winning position yet threw it away. That, in my view, is totally unacceptable and unprofessional.

That is just fucking typical of us. Regardless of the decision, the re-take, yet again a two goal lead is ALWAYS an Achilles heal for us.

Stroked home by Watt! 2-0!!!

There he is yet again! Tony Watt 1-0

Yes I do, to an extent at least. With some extent of the support. As I said, rightly or wrongly, should we lose this on the back of three straight defeats then the reaction from the support will be unpleasant to say the least, I reckon. However hopefully we get the win and we won’t even be discussing this in a couple of hours time.

Perhaps it’s not a watershed moment, but on the back of three straight defeats and three poor performances if we were to lose at home to St.Mirren then that will, rightly or wrongly, crank up the pressure on the manager. All hypothetical at the moment of course and if we win then this discussion will be irrelevant.

For GA’s sake we better get a result tonight. A draw would probably be just about acceptable but if we lose then a great deal of the support he has will always be lost too. I hope I’m wrong but persisting with SO’D and Grimshaw is madness.

Yip! O’Donnell and Grimshaw keep their places. Mental. Also Shields starts and KVV benched.

On.