Tweed

Dangerous play = red card. Generally you'll get a red card for dangerous play if the foot is dangerously high, it was. Generally you'll get a red card if it is over the ball, it was. Generally you'll get a red card if you rake down someone's leg with the studs, it did. Generally you'll get a red card if there is excessive force. You could argue it was. And normally it only needs to be one of the above, not three maybe four. It ticked every box. Anyone who doesn't think that is dangerous play ergo a red card is looking through the most claret and amber tinted spectacles going. If he hadn't nudged the ball first and the full momentum had gone into Tierney he was looking at another lengthy spell out. Like I said previously, I have no doubt he only had eyes for the ball but you just can't play like that and I genuinely cannot believe there are people defending it.

Not sure why we're not just grateful we got away with one. As Stu said further up, it is the most blatant red card going and the referee (who has a reputation for being overly lenient) clearly made a mistake. I actually think the Scotsman article is pretty interesting - it acknowledges it is a refereeing error and provide some rationale about why he possibly got it wrong - almost as if it was written to educate the fan reading it. To be fair to Celtic, nobody from in that club has been particularly critical of Bowman as I think both realise it was exuberance rather than malice that caused it but it does not change the fact it was a red card offence. Also as an aside when our manager comes out in the press last week saying he believes there is an agenda against us yet on Saturday we have a player who booked when he should have been sent off, hardly surprising the media want to point out Motherwell got away with one.

Yeah, we haven't lost to a team in the bottom seven since 5th November. We hadn't lost away game in the league since 26th November until tonight either. Our home record is dismal, our record against the top five is dismal. I'm kind of torn at the moment - he can't play with the swagger we would like against the top teams because we'd be too open (the irony, I know) but he ends up leaving Moult exposed which means he drops deep and we just cannot get out. After a year I would have thought there would have been some signs of improvement - there are none. For a manager of over 900 games experience, a solution of sorts should have been found by now. On the flip side, if we keep beating the other teams who are also fodder he'll keep us up comfortably and if he does it will be a case of target met. But if we get a couple of injuries and end up not beating these teams, the fact we've taken nothing against the top five could come back to bite. Not sure if Inverness have nicked a win against St Johnstone or not, I have a feeling they have but everyone else has won at least one game against them and a couple of draws as well and that difference could kill us if we're the team who lose form against our peers. I'd keep him for now but the nails on the peg are loosening.

Scott McDonald was on Sportscene so safe to say they know!

If you thought Vigurs tackle was poor, you should see the one Joe Lewis got away with a yellow for in the Ross County v Aberdeen game. Dearie me. And that one actually has a direct impact on us as he should be suspended for Wednesday.

No he didn't. It was Hamed twice, Glenn Murray and an og. However looking good for them getting up.

Vigurs tackle was very poor. He was off his feet and lunged in with a scissors motion - one you would expect a referee to brandish a red for. I think the second bit of inconsistency in this game was Kevin Clancy booked Lustig for a drag back and a minute later the already booked Vigurs did exactly the same but at 4-0 Clancy clearly felt sorry for them and didn't bother with the yellow card. But if you can't get consistency with the same referee over 2 minutes, what chance do you have with different referees over a season.

I honestly don't think Willie Collum gives a shit who he upsets.

He did catch the ball but what I really meant was his leg was over the height of the ball and straight hence making it dangerous.

Looking at this, should Ross County v Aberdeen be postponed on Saturday, the game will be played again on Tuesday night. Not that it is especially likely but would be a bit annoying if McHugh's suspension carries forward to the Dundee game. http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=16761&newsCategoryID=1 Edited because I forgot the link!

I think we have to be careful that we don't assume every red card was for using excessive force, there are several different things a referee looks for to make it a red card which by my understanding are over the ball, two footed, excessive force, endangering an opponent. To talk about the ones in our last two home games I think Collum got 3/3 right and Dallas got 0/1. O'Halloran - not much of a debate about this one. Accidental I am sure it was but he effectively booted McHugh in the stomach with excessive force. I think the only box he didn't tick was two footed. Kiernan - I think this was a hard tackle that was one footed however I don't think it was hard enough to be classed as excessive. Did he endanger the opponent? He felt it I'm sure but I don't think there was much danger of Hammell being more injured than the bruise/dead leg he got. Tackle was also on the turf. McDonald - I think McDonald's is a clear red. He had a straight leg and he was over the ball and ergo over Miller's boot. Therefore even although I don't think there was enough to be excessive force, I think the height of the tackle and it being a straight leg there, I would expect that to be a red card. Like O'Halloran I'm sure he didn't mean it but I think he endangered the safety of an opponent. McHugh - This is the one that annoys me. It was no harder than Kiernan's and he won the ball which meant the impact on Cowie was less than Kiernan's was on Hammell because a lot of the force into the tackle went into the ball rather than the man. Had he missed the ball I would have said it deserved the same punishment as Kiernan but as it wasn't excessive force, played the ball in my mind that was not even a foul. Appreciate that may not be the popular view re McDonald and Kiernan and I am not the one member of the Willie Collum fan club but I think we need to be careful we don't start believing every straight red is for excessive force.

If the force of the tackle is important then Pearson could have gone for one that was not even penalised on Saturday as there was one we heard from the back row of the East when it happened south of the away dugout on the other wing. Scott McDonald's tackle has been a red card for years, the moment you go in with a straight leg, over the height of the ball referees always show a red card. In my view Kiernan's was correctly given a yellow card as although it was hard it didn't look excessively hard to me and it was more or less on the ground. I thought McHugh's tackle was more like Kiernan's than McDonald's. Of course what we don't know is what any panel would have decided on Kiernan's tackle as we only have Willie Collum's verdict. However I assume the club have taken some counsel before deciding not to appeal and if they have I hope there has been a very clear message been sent to the players about how they are going to tackle going forward. There is of course an issue about referee interpretation as well. Jay McEveley's tackle at Kilmarnock a week past Saturday is the most dangerous tackle I've seen all season and it was only punished by a yellow card. However in a way every tackle is different, they look better/worse from different angles and a referee's opinion is subjective - no matter how good the referees are you are never going to get 100% consistency but it does feel we got the right shitey end of the stick on Saturday. But hopefully lessons have been learned.

Tynecastle has had all the same benefits above yet was absolutely awful on Wednesday night which suggests to me it is hard work, having the right people in situ and a bit of investment. Hopefully when Celtic come back after the split they may realise why we have been incredibly protective of the goalmouths.

The problem with Moult by himself is he is also keen to drift back if he is isolated, we then end up with him on the ball in our own half and nothing in front and he doesn't have the pace to bring us forward OR we go long and the other team's defence have it as meat and drink. One up can only work if someone in the midfield is between the rest of the midfield and the forward so we are close enough.

Fair enough but I think McGhee could give him lessons in beating the dross.

Ross County 7/9 Partick, Hamilton, Kilmarnock 4/6 Inverness 3/6 Dundee 1/6 The above we should be fairly pleased with. Also that all the score draws in the games above, we conceded first in which suggests there is a bit more backbone than there was before. Especially at home we should have done a bit better against Hearts, Rangers, St Johnstone and Aberdeen - all these teams have managed at least a couple of points against them at home - had we matched them I suspect the top 6 place we would be firmly in the box seat for. Overall I think McGhee could have done a bit better points wise but for position in the league he is right on expectation.

A wee stat for you: Carl McHugh away league games Played 4; Won 3 Drawn 1.

I would say the answer to that question provides a similar question. In that he was drawn to Waghorn and I'd ask the same question about Stephen McManus.

Last week I thought the players let the manager down by silly mistakes, today I think he let them down as he didn't make a change despite it being blindingly obvious we had become encamped in our 18 yard box, it needed an outball. Given that context I thought to a man (other than McDonald) they stuck to it manfully but had it not been for Samson the game would have been dead and buried long before it was so he gets it.

Should we win on Tuesday we'll finish the midweek at least six ahead of one of Hamilton and Inverness since they meet and Killie and Dundee don't play so we'd jump above the three right above us - it's a huge psycholgical reward. Also, lets not write off the HEarts game - they're at Parkhead today and at home to Rangers on Wednesday - likely they'll have a few battle scars and will spend quite a lot of time chasing the ball. If we can find a formation that allows us to attack (two attack minded midfielders for example) I think we have a chance. However all that said Tuesday is a difficult game. They've played two games since the break against teams not dissimilar to us ability wise and have scored 8 conceded 5. Doesn't take a genius to work out where they're weak and that we'll have to defend well, and by that I mean not on the 18 yard box!

I think the difference was McDonald was off the ground and got the ankle whereas Kiernan was on the ground and rattled the boot which I think was a fair differentiation between dangerous and red for McDonald against reckless and yellow for Kiernan. Sorry, I think the much maligned Willie Collum got the three big decisions spot on.

I'd prefer the former because the former gives you the latter. But that's the pedantic outlook.

Hard to say how McGhee was approaching it for 11 v 11 given that O'Halloran's red was so early. But I really felt McDonald had two very good chances and he just didn't poke them home. But the moment we lost McDonald they doubled up on Cadden as they only had one linking player to deal with, Moult had to drop so deep to get involved and we ended up we had no out ball and ended up defending our 18 yard box. When you do that you eventually concede. Looking at it during the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half, it seemed to me we had to bring an attacking outlet on to relieve the pressure, it may have left us more open but we were so deep their goal was inevitable anyway. Had he brought Frear on at 0-0, he'd have had a bit more room to play in and may have relieved some pressure so that we didn't play so deep. Alternatively Ainsworth was worth a punt. Of course it could have gone wrong but there are times you need to take a risk.

Basically they're doing what I said they should on here about five weeks ago. Perhaps someone could ask Flow where in the SFA I send my invoice?

I've not been in here since Saturday and I've just skimmed through the thread. My thoughts when the team were announced were that we were too defensive. It was clear the plan was to get to 65-70 minutes, throw on another forward thinking player and try and win the game. The reason I didn't like it was because I thought there was no way we were good enough to get to 65-70 minutes on nil. We were lucky to do that as Hammell should have conceded a penalty and we got very lucky with an offside ten minutes into the second falf but broadly we managed it reasonably comfortably. McDonald did open the game up in our favour and when Moult headed home it looked like plan executed perfectly. Then it all went breasts north sadly. Rangers first goal was more good attacking than bad defending (a bit like our goal) but McHugh could have done better to stop Waghorn getting the ball and Heneghan drifted off Miller a bit but 1-1 was still an OK result. Where I disagree with a lot of the critics is that we didn't believe. Actually we went straight up the park and had two or three chances to win the game - I thought we looked like a team that did believe we could still win the game. And actually in my view McDonald's failure to properly make the cutback to Moult was as big an error as McManus's aberration and cost us one goal also. However the one constant is we make bad decisions. McDonald, Ainsworth and McManus have all tried a casual pass into midfield that was a risk too far and within seconds the ball has ended in our net in the dying embers of games v the Glasgow teams this season. Really need to learn there are times for launching it or if you going to try a clever pass ping it towards the wing and at least the team have a chance to get back. I really felt for McGhee on Saturday. I think he played it perfectly and his two most experienced players made a goal costing error at one end or the other in the final knockings and it cost us a place. I don't always think his formations work but actually on Saturday I think he nailed it and was let down by idiotic mistakes by people who should know better. In a way I quite liked his interview on Saturday because it showed how gutted he was and how much he cared but really the club should have pulled the one they did, long term it serves nobody any benefit.