Jay

It appears that's what happened. Ach well - the direct contact with clubs and utilising of social media by fans up until now has worked wonders, perhaps it's better to stick to the tried and tested methods rather than trying to go ahead with hastily organised demos. That said, I think some of the criticism on Pie & Bovril and other sites is unfair. Going by the photos, I think there was a pretty decent turnout for a demo with such short notice that was cancelled yesterday.

Oh aye, agreed - but only because it's a foregone conclusion, this idea of independent verification being some guy just having a swatch at already-opened ballots would have ended up causing problems if the result had actually been close. I'm just interested in what the actual result was- assuming they provide percentages/totals - given we already know it's a 'no' anyway. Agreed. I know that they obviously want to keep things all above board and thorough, but we know it's a 'no', they know it's a 'no'. But I'm happy to wait until Monday for the official confirmation. EDIT: to make more sense!

It has nothing to do with paranoia and over reaction. That's why I implied that it doesn't actually matter because Flow's post suggests that it's an overwhelming 'No' anyway. However, that is quite simply not how ballots are independently verified. To be independently verified someone had to be there from the opening of the votes to the counting to the recounting. Simply handing someone a pile of voting papers that have already been taken out of envelopes and left in a drawer over the weekend isn't actually independent verification.

Thanks for taking the time out to post Flow. Your post is very much welcomed - however, I can't help but be concerned that Derek Weir had no input or knowledge about these proposals. Obviously my first reaction is one of relief, assuming that's actually true. However, that then begs the question of who exactly is responsible for the SPL and these proposals if even the board members are being kept in the dark? And surely now the SPL clubs, and the SPL board, should be hunting this/these individual(s) from our national game as soon as possible!?

Yep, that's my understanding of having a ballot "independently verified" as well. If the votes have already been opened and counted, there is now absolutely no point in having them independently verified. It's just as well it's a resounding no that we all expected. If it was a close result there would be calls to have the ballot all over again.

That many? The fact it had been seemingly cancelled and it was pishing it down, I'm surprised it was even in double figures!

The most interesting thing I think from Sportsound today was both Jim Spence and Gordon Waddell saying they've spoken to a number of chairmen from all four divisions - the vast majority of whom have said that, long term, not having Rangers isn't actually a problem financially as they can adapt, it's just next season's contracts that are the issues. Putting aside that there have been clubs putting themselves in this situation by offering contracts to players while the existence of Rangers hangs in the balance (our own club included), this presumably means that if clubs can get through a tough financial next season, things will then begin to look up and the idea that we need Rangers in any form long-term is nonsense. The other highlight was an outstanding interview with the Raith chairman basically putting across the thoughts of 99% of Scottish football fans, and dismissing the latest proposals as blackmail and corruption. Well worth a listen online if possible.

I wouldn't be surprised. Seriously though, counting 700 ballots would take about half an hour. They could have counted the vast majority yesterday, added any that came in before the office shut last night, and went home yesterday evening knowing the exact result. There is no reason not to announce the results today. And if it's in the form of a statement, there's no reason not to address the latest developments. Well, on second thoughts, there would be a reason not to address the latest developments...

Okay, well say 700-800 adult members balloted. So that'll be an extra half hour then.

I'd like to think we'll see a statement at some point today. I think I'd be right in saying there are about 700 members of the Well Society and only adult members were balloted. So, say that's about the 500 mark. Given the deadline for voting was yesterday, the votes should either be already counted or will be shortly - it doesn't take long at all to count about 500 votes. So after that's done, there's no real excuse for the club to remain silent.

Anybody else heard anything about this? Folk on Facebook and on Pie & Bovril seem to suggest it's a no goer, whereas there's folk on Twitter claiming it's a goer. All the confusion could result in there being a dozen folk there which would be worse publicity wise than nobody turning up.

I would say that a player taking a split second decision to throw himself to the ground in the middle of a football match is hugely different from a premeditated, organised and thought out attempt to cheat through corruption. I also don't agree that it's just the fans of effected clubs that make a deal of it. There have been plenty of footballers who have cheated and been completely hounded for it.

The thing I don't quite understand is, on the face of it at least, the lack of any preparation for all this by our club. Rangers went into administration in February. Now obviously at that stage we had no idea how things would develop, but by April/May things were well underway and everybody with the slightest interest in Scottish football knew that there was a more than slim chance of Rangers going into liquidation and perhaps no longer existing beyond this season. And yet, we were busy offering contracts out to Lasley, Hammell, Jennings, Clancy and Craigan, as well as budgeting (once again) for another season of top six football and cup runs (which in itself is ridiculous). I'm not suggesting that all planning for next season should have halted and McCall should have scrapped all talk of new contracts until all this was settled, but there doesn't seem to have been any real consideration given to this apparent financial oblivion if Rangers cease to exist for over four months. There's just something that doesn't quite seem right to me - we had the club putting forward the case for a 'yes' vote including saying that we have contracts that need to be honoured, and yet I've not really seen it mentioned that a couple of those contracts (and it could have been more) were offered to players when the rest of us were watching Rangers slowly creep towards complete obliteration.

Exactly. Far too many folk, on both sides, are getting caught up in the idea of punishment. We're past that. This is now about a newco club having to follow the same route as any other club by applying for inclusion in the SFL, or not having to follow this route due to blatant corruption. For me, this is no longer about Rangers specifically. It's about just how corrupt our national sport is possibly about to become and whether there's any point continuing to be a part of it. If this is the level of corruption we are willing to reach to shoehorn Rangers into the SPL within the next year, what else can we expect? If Rangers do return to the SPL within a year but are still so financially insecure that they struggle, and we find ourselves in a relegation battle with them in 2013/14, I hope all Motherwell fans are prepared to accept that we will be sacrificed to Division One to ensure Rangers remain in the SPL. No moaning about dodgy penalty or offside decisions I'm afraid, it'll just be a case of accepting that it's the new corrupt way of things to ensure that the glorious Glasgow Rangers (or whatever they're called) continue to line the pockets of those in charge of our game.

I must admit to being a little concerned at the lack of statement from our club so far given the implications of what's going on. However, that said, tonight is the deadline for the Well Society vote, so I'm hoping that the plan is perhaps to count the results quickly and issue a statement ASAP covering both issues.

There's also the fact that these proposals are quite obviously about making sure Rangers are only out of the SPL for one season. That is the most important fact here. The only way forward according to those that run our game is to have Rangers in the SPL within one season, nothing else is doable. I assume this then means that should Falkirk find themselves at home to Rangers on the last day of next season in a winner takes all title match, or the playoffs are indeed reintroduced and a 2nd placed Rangers find their way into the final - those in charge of our game will actively ensure that Rangers win promotion. We've went from the SFA declaring that the only thing worse than the antics of Rangers is match-fixing, to putting our entire national sport in a situation where match-fixing, orchestrated by those in charge of our game, could become paramount to these plans succeeding. That's corruption. It's as simple as that.

A few of us are probably going to head for Shawlands pints tomorrow and then casually stroll by Hampden at 2pm. If there's nobody there, it'll be back to the pub - if there's a decent number, we'll get involved. If folk are in the area or aren't busy tomorrow, then it's worth checking out IMO. If Scottish football is going to go full-blown corrupt, then I'd at least rather witness it knowing I made an effort of some sorts (however futile) rather than just bending over.

Nah, don't agree. There's still every chance Motherwell have balloted the Well Society in good faith and are not a part of the corruption underway. Having a demo at Fir Park would be pretty meaningless IMO. I reckon there could be a decent turn out. Celtic fans are always very organised when it comes to things like this, plus they love a chance to be publicly aggrieved. It's also all over Pie & Bovril and Twitter. The Internet, social media and word of mouth are powerful tools and can do wonders in 24 hours.

I've been vocal in my praise for Andrew Wilson after his attempts to answer lots of questions on Twitter etc, but that article just seems a little bizarre to me. Surely he is aware that fans of all clubs ARE united in a bid to save Scottish football?! And I include Rangers fans in that - the majority of their fans want to go into the 3rd division. It seems a heartfelt plea and there are those who are still just laughing at Rangers, but I think the vast majority have now moved beyond that. Saving Scottish football is exactly what this is all about.

That's perfectly fine. At the moment, I'm personally more concerned with what our club's response - if any - will be to this.

Why would the SFA not currently supporting the idea be an issue in the slightest? Of course they don't currently support the idea - they've made it quite clear that they currently support the idea of Rangers going into the First Division. However, if that's not a goer then they will obviously support an SPL2, especially as it'll be the only option out of five still available. And legal challenges from who exactly?

Of course a statement will make folk happier, assuming it clarifies that our club isn't involved in the corruption and blackmail currently being played out in Scottish football.

The document sent to SFL clubs is blatant blackmail IMO. It quite simply spells out that there have been five scenarios entertained, three of which are non-starters. That leaves two scenarios - either the SFL clubs allow Rangers into the First Division, or it's SPL2 time. It's as close to blackmail as you can get without the SPL basically just sending out what I've written above.

Normally I'd agree. However, in this case all the club has to do is release a statement explaining that the SPL's plans are not something they are involved in nor actively support, and reiterate their intentions to follow the wishes of the Well Society. If a few folk still want to pick holes in that then they can batter in. It doesn't detract from the fact that a statement is now absolutely vital, and the longer the club remains silent the more guilty they will appear.