Jay

Given the short time frame, it might be worthwhile just trying to get everyone along to the 'fans forum' as possible - 'no to the newco' Motherwell fans spilling out onto the street!

I'll be there I reckon. Unfortunately I could see myself walking out half way through though, if the statement is anything to go by.

The fact that the statement even implies that it's a choice between losing some TV money or losing some Motherwell supporters is an absolute joke in itself. If the club then vote to lose the supporters, then it's a disgrace and a betrayal.

Agreed. If the statement was genuinely made by a club currently undecided, it would naturally have a neutral tone to it and give equal consideration to both points of view. That statement doesn't - there's a couple of standard paragraphs followed by a couple of lines about how we're all important and they know we want a 'no' vote. This is then followed by reason after reason about why the club will vote 'yes'. It seems to be to be a blatant bit of 'yes' propaganda badly disguised as a neutral statement. Also, I originally believed the 'fans forum' would be a genuine consultation of the fans. I simply don't believe that now. The statement tells us they know that a 'no' vote is overwhelmingly backed by the support before listing the reasons for a 'yes' vote. I fear 'consulting with the fans' may just turn out to be a repeat of the statement...

I would cancel my Well Society membership as I would have no interest to putting money into the club through that avenue. However, I would still attend SPL matches and, therefore, would probably renew my season ticket. For me, my funding and commitment to the Well Society hinges on the wishes of a support, that the club want involved, not being betrayed. My attendance at league matches depends on the integrity of the SPL as a whole.

They already know. The new statement states that they know the overwhelming majority of 'Well fans want a 'no' vote. Therefore, it seems obvious - to me anyway - that the subsequent paragraphs of reasons to vote 'yes' are to try and convince a few folk to support that vote when the club go with it on the 4th. I'm pretty disappointed now - my feeling after reading that statement is that the 'fans forum' that will be arranged soon as part of the club consulting with the fans will actually turn out to be nothing more than an attempt to explain why we're voting 'yes'.

It's a decent enough statement in terms of detail but it doesn't give me a particularly good feeling. To start with I was thinking "this is actually looking good" and when I reached 'History shows that any business which ignores the wishes of its customer base rarely prospers in the long term' I thought we were all on the same page. However, it then went on to provide paragraph upon paragraph of why we might vote 'yes'. By the time I'd reached the end it felt like I'd just read the reasons we've already decided on voting 'yes' rather than a statement about the situation from a genuinely undecided club. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong. My view is still undeniably a 'no' vote and that won't change.

Not too long away so I assume the consulting of fans will occur in the very near future.

:lol:

Not only do I want a 'no' vote, I want the above to be Motherwell Football Club's official statement regarding the matter.

I'll wait to see the details of this new prospect but it's certainly an interesting one. Although Rangers only being dropped to the First Division would be a bit of a shambles, I wouldn't be completely against it if it brings about the drastic changes our domestic game desperately needs. I could stand the short-term sense of injustice for the long-term benefits for our game. Those changes need to be brought about though, if it's simply about rejigging a few things so they can 'pretend' to punish Rangers on the understanding they'll be back after a year, then they can go get fucked.

"Should be looking at" being the most important part of your post. Of course Rangers should be far and away the favourites to win the First Division, but that doesn't mean it's impossible that it might not happen.

What happens if Rangers don't win the First Division? Or what happens if they go into the last few minutes of the season drawing 0-0 and needing all three points for promotion? Will the referee be on strict instructions from the SFA to award Rangers a penalty in order to ensure they win the league?

I don't think this can be over looked. Loads of folk on Pie & Bovril seem to be convinced we're guaranteed 'yes' voters and, at the beginning, I would have agreed - but as things have developed, I actually think we simply must be leaning towards a 'no'. Motherwell have now confirmed in two separate statements that they plan to discuss the issue with the fans. I don't think there's any doubt that the poll above is going to be pretty representative of our support as a whole - perhaps not as one-sided, but it'll be pretty close to the results here. I don't for a second believe there is anyone within the club who doesn't already know how the support feels. Therefore, by announcing that they will consult the fans, the club are either planning to follow the wishes of the support and vote 'no', or are going to consult the fans purely for the sake of it before betraying the support's wishes and voting 'yes'. When you throw in the Well Society issue, that would be an absolutely disastrous move by Motherwell. Not only will memberships be cancelled - including my own - but it would throw doubt over the future memberships that the Society needs to be successful. I genuinely believe that consulting the support, it being made clear in no uncertain terms that the majority of the support is against a 'yes' vote, and yet going ahead and voting 'yes' anyway could be the end of the Well Society before its really even got going. I also don't believe for a second that this isn't something those at the club recognise which leaves me thinking we may actually end up voting against a newco.

I can't see the voting being private. At the very least, in the case of a newco being voted in, those who voted 'no' will want to make sure their fans know about it (Aberdeen today being the perfect example).

That about sums it up for me. The argument that the SPL would end up like the Welsh top division is idiotic nonsense and so flawed an argument its hilarious. The argument that the SPL would end up like the League of Ireland isn't far behind in the bullshit stakes. However, just say for argument sake that a lack of Rangers did result in an SPL the level of the Irish league. So what? I'd happily take that over the complete disregard of sporting integrity, fairplay and dignity in favour of welcoming cheating bastards straight back into the league with open arms. If the SPL announced this week that they were implementing new rules that would see referees purposely giving Rangers two penalties every match (jokes about current referee bias aside!) it would be recognised as blatant cheating and scrapped. If the SPL announced this week that they were introducing new rules that would allow Rangers to field an extra player every match it would be recognised as blatant cheating and scrapped. If the SPL announced this week that they would be providing Rangers with £5m in transfer funds every season it would be recognised as blatant cheating and scrapped. If the SPL announce that they are going to allow a newco into the top division after everything that has gone on it will, in my opinion, be recognised as blatant cheating and should, therefore, be scrapped. For years, the Italian leagues have been the shining beacon of corruption in world football. I never, ever thought I'd see the day where the Scottish leagues could potentially rival them for that honour.

If a newco was voted in as part of a move by the SPL clubs to punish Rangers in the short-term and even out the playing field in the long-term (in the way of sanctions, changes etc) then I would accept that, assuming I personally felt the measures were worthy. As funny as I think it would be to put Rangers into the 3rd division, I couldn't actually care less where they're playing next season. This for me is not only about sporting integrity and proving our league isn't embarrassingly corrupt, but also about seizing a glorious opportunity to make the league better for us whilst properly punishing a club which has been responsible for unparalleled levels of cheating.

Interesting few days to come I guess then! I've always been of the stance that we should vote 'no' and the only way I would accept a 'yes' vote from MFC would be if credible sanctions were applied to the newco that were both a suitable punishment and made use of the glorious opportunity the SPL has to balance the top flight a bit. If not, then I wouldn't be returning to SPL matches. Not only is that still my position, but it's shared by a number of the folk I go to games with. However, I am both delighted and a little isappointed by today's news. I'm delighted because it gets it right up Rangers but mainly it finally looks to be a step towards an end to all this shite, but I'm disappointed because it now seems like a realistic prospect that I could be giving up SPL football in the near future - whereas previously, although 100% genuine with my position, I did think there was a chance they'd exit administration somehow. That was probably my thinking when I foolishly gave the Well Society £300 I couldn't really afford a couple of months ago - a membership that obviously won't be continued if the worst happens. First and foremost, our club should do the right thing and the vote will take care of itself. Hopefully other clubs would follow suit however, and our top division could safeguard a sense of integrity and dignity rather than becoming more corrupt than the Italians.

To be fair, that was always on the cards anyway. The only people who thought a TV deal in any form would die with Rangers are blinked Cream Buns and morons.

Thankfully Friday is almost here...

That was my first thoughts. I'm happy to take his explanation at face value and believe that he didn't know about the curfew but, if true, it left him in a bit of a difficult position in that he either took the punishment quietly or put out his point of view of the situation which would inevitably undermine the manager to some extent. He's obviously opted for the latter so hopefully it won't have too big an impact on his future international career.

Page 8 of that thread is now talking about Humphrey's statement from today - to be fair to the Jamaican fans posting, they seem fairly supportive of Humphrey and quite critical of the national team's management. My favourite post though is:

With that logic, presumably no one should bother wearing Motherwell tops or scarves to the actual game as, since we'll be in the away end, the opposition fans will know we're all 'Well fans? And?

Because those places are in Scotland and the team play to solely represent Motherwell, unlike in Europe where the games are played abroad and the side is one of Scotland's representatives in European football, thus representing Motherwell, Scotland and Scottish football. But, of course, you already know that.

The fact I just used the phrase "every time we're in Europe" without even thinking about it is somewhat pleasing.