Jay

And how does a 10 team league guarantee competition and excitement all year round exactly!?

That's been the most obvious thing through this - usually when things of this type crop up, there's one or two groups who feel stronger than others etc (usually the Old Firm fans want one thing, and the rest want another). But you're right - one look on Pie & Bovril, the BBC forum bit and all other Scottish football messages board; one listen to the football phone ins - it's all the same. The vast, vast majority are dead against this and I wouldn't be surprised if that is being noticed by some clubs. We started with Dundee United against it, then Inverness Caley, then Hearts and Kilmarnock joined the resistance, now it's on the radio that a fifth club is destined to vote against it. It's quickly shaping up to be the six members of the steering group left voting for this debacle, and it disappoints me no end that "our club" will be one of them.

Corrected that for you. It has absolutely nothing to do with "self importance". It has to do with reaching a point where you're no longer willing to shell out cash to be treating like shite and provided with absolutely dire football in a league setup purely to line the pockets of a chosen few. If you're happy to do so, batter in. It also has to do with the football clubs who are kept alive by the fans completely ignoring the views of those fans in order to quench their thirst for as much cash as possible. Aye, you could be right. And let's be honest, even if it was legal - none of the clubs would ever vote for a setup that loses £1m, even if it was guaranteed to rapidly increase entertainment levels and benefit our domestic game long-term (I'm not claiming it would, but they wouldn't vote for it regardless). It's all about making shite short-term changes in a bid to keep making as much money as possible. Our opinions don't matter. We're simply the fools who turn up and fill their pockets. They know that there are enough football fans willing to put up with anything that they can make drastic unpopular decisions like this and still make money.

So the two main problems with a 16 team league appear to be the scare stories of a £1,000,000 loss per club, and only having 30 games a season. Let's take the 30 matches thing first. If it's really that big a deal, why not just bring back the old-style league cup with groups at the start of the season to add a guaranteed number of games? As for the £1,000,000 loss claim - who knows if it's true. Maybe it is. And if it is... so? I would much rather have a competative 16 team league full of young Scottish players at clubs with wage caps and other financial measures brought in to keep things in check, than a 10 team league of overpaid shite. If clubs all lost £1,000,000 each and dealt with it properly, then I fail to really see the difference. The only problem would be when these Scottish sides then failed to compete regularly in Europe... oh wait.

I don't think most folk feel particularly strongly about the actual differences, or lack of, between the current setup and the proposed setup though. I can only speak for myself obviously, but I'm just generally fed up with Scottish club football. Whether it's sitting watching absolutely honking games of football, being treated like a criminal on a train to Inverness, being threatened with ejection for standing up too long during a game, or just forking out a load of cash for all these fantastic perks of being a Scottish football fan, it all adds up to make being a Scottish football fan a generally depressing situation. Football is just a form of entertainment. I go to the football to be entertained. Or, at least, I used to. Nowadays I go to the football out of habit because I have a season ticket. I still hold out some sort of hope that the entertainment will return, or there'll be enough bits and pieces of entertainment here and there to outweigh the dross, but if we completely blow the chance of restructuring on 10 teams playing each other 4 times, then I'm out. That's the problem for me - not the actual change itself, but the fact that it's a waste and that once this change is made we're guaranteed to be landed with it for about 10 years at least. Especially given the way in which the fans have been completely ignored. That's my problem. Scottish football is shite and I'm hanging on in there with it just, but decreasing the entertainment and interest levels for the sake of money will almost certainly lead to me deciding to do something else with my Saturdays. On a side note, I also don't buy the few comments on the other thread about how any boycott or protest shouldn't hurt Motherwell in the pocket as it's our job as fans to give them money. Fuck that. That's only one half of the deal. I pay my money to Motherwell as a 'Well fan, and Motherwell are supposed to be entertaining me. By decreasing my entertainment by thinking up, pushing for, and voting for a 10 team SPL, Motherwell are failing to meet their half of the contract, and I'll follow suit. As will a number of football fans all over Scotland.

Leeann, If we are subjected to a 10 team SPL thanks to Motherwell not only voting for it, but being a part of the steering group which actually brought it to the table, then you can shove your season ticket and I'll be back at Fir Park if Blantyre Vics ever draw them in the Scottish Cup. Cheers, Jay

Wasn't our club part of the six club group tasked with investigating the options and bringing the best idea to the table? If so, I'd assume there's far more chance of our club trying to persuade others to vote for it. No chance we'll vote against it. Shambles.

Ach well, I've enjoyed Scottish football since my first game against Falkirk in the '91 cup run, but I guess everything comes to an end. As if being treated like a criminal for having a beer on a train, standing in a stadium, or taking a photo of a match wasn't bad enough - along with the absolutely shite and over-priced product we've got in this country - suddenly the Scottish football clubs, who exist and operate because of us, get together, completely ignore what the supporters want, and get their cooshty wee 10 team effort on the go. Christ, playing dross like St Mirren three times a season was bad enough, now we're going to be guaranteed a fourth game (not to mention any cup draws)!? Blinding. I don't buy this "I don't want to deprive Motherwell of money". Our club is just as guilty for this shite, if not more given MFC were apart of the 6-team group (I think?) that brought this idea to the table. I've appreciated Leeann Dempster coming on here and keeping us up to date with things. I hope she comes on here, reads this thread, and responds. Away and shite. Game over. Coupon and pub on a Saturday, cheers.

Oh aye, I wouldn't say for a second he deserves a medal. But I think he is due some thanks at least, especially given he turned down a move to Aberdeen with Brown & Knox, given he can't be certain to be kept on when the new gaffer comes in. Let's not kid ourselves, it's been a very poor managerial stint. We'd all have done it differently. I'd have used the period in charge to get rid of Alan Gow for instance. It looks as though Young's discomfort in managing was mirrored in a nervous refusal to change anything - and it's cost us. But let's not forget his three games in charge have been against the three teams that'll finish 1st, 2nd and 3rd this season. He's never a football manager in a million years, but he's kept things ticking over and tonight's second half has restored a bit of the optimism I lost on Sunday, because we actually looked half decent.

And? The guy is quite clearly uncomfortable in a manager's role and has no desire to be there. He's stepped up to plate because we needed someone. What exactly were you expecting from such an arrangement? Personally, I'd have expected much, much more from a bunch of players who knew they had to produce without a manager spoon feeding them, rather than turning up on Sunday (for example) as though they couldn't care less. Never a football manager, but then he knows that. Cheers Youngy.

First half we were poor, second half we looked much better and won the midfield battle - so for that I'd go for Lasley or Fitzpatrick. At a push, I'll opt for Fizzy overall.

Reckon we could be in for another hammering on Wednesday. Anyone ever been in the hospitality at Celtic Park? Me, my dad and a mate are in there for the game - just wondering what'll be on the go (ie. will there be complimentary booze to make the mauling a little easier to take?!)

EDIT: Wrang thread.

Yep, you're correct. Jamie Murphy put the ball out and got pelters from both the East Stand and Craigan for it. Foster took the resulting throw in, threw it to McCulloch, and he battered it back to Randolph.

Naeb'dy.

That was fucking terrible.

You don't say...... Although wasn't it Mark Walters who missed the penalty?

Motherwell 3 - 0 Rangers Kenny Miller to miss a penalty for Rangers. Craigan to open the scoring and Jamie Murphy to add two goals late on on the counter attack as the Attilas push for an equaliser.

Very sad news indeed, rest in peace.

The Boy George claim was just to try and deflect attention away from the reality. Wednesday afternoon will see the unveiling at Fir Park of a Tommy Pickles and Chuckie Finster managerial dream team.

Cracked it. Comma Comma Comma Comma Chameleon. Next 'Well gaffer...

If you're going to pretend that it actually does say on Wikipedia that he managed Red Star at some point, at least have the committment to edit it to back up your claim.

Even then, that sounds awfully suspicious. If you're a professional footballer involved in a betting scam that could ultimately end your career and that requires you to be sent off, would you really decide to do so by shouting sweary words at a referee? Jennings had plenty of chances to pick up an absolute guaranteed second yellow card last night if he really wanted to by way of a foul, rather than gambling on the referee being easily offended. Doesn't add up for me.

My thoughts as well. Though that doesn't really add up. Surely O'Riley would have to be in on it as well? It's not as though Jennings went in two-footed on someone, he tapped the referee on the shoulder!