MJC_MKI

I wonder what odds on us drawing that mob in the 4th round of the Scottish.

Let's hope that's the case.

Another pitiful display. Celtic were at walking pace throughout and still ripped the absolute c**t out of us. Well done to big Randolph, the only Motherwell player to come out of that with pass marks. Had it not been for him we'd have lost six or seven today. Not one other Motherwell player can take any credit from that.

Aye that'd be one way to ensure getting our back doors smashed in, lining up against Celtic with a two man midfield. They'll in all liklieness murder us down the flanks as it is but with that lineup they could hit double figures if they were in the mood.

In my view, that is why this wasn't an ordinary game. Apart from being the first SPL side to play newco Rangers after all the carry on in the summer, thus adding a bit of edge to the game, the Motherwell support as a whole I would guess were absolutely desperate to see us finally get a win over a team, or at least a reincarnation of a team who we have suffered so much misery at the hands of during the past decade. Motherwell fans love to beat Rangers, and Celtic of course, and so all the humpings, frustrations and bad luck against Rangers which had built up over the last ten years meant that this game meant more to the Motherwell support because here was a chance, a much better chance than they've had at any time in recent years to go to Ibrox and win. Of course it was never going to be a walk in the park, but this was Rangers in name only, they no longer had multi million pound Internationalists packing their side, instead they had a side which was akin to that of a mid to top half SPL side who infact had their best players sitting in the stands on the night, so there was room for hope, if not expectation, that we might see a Motherwell team go to Ibrox and actually give them a serious game of it and stand a chance of winning. That is why we look far more fans there than we normally would. What did we get though? The usual Ibrox capitulation and if the defeat wasn't bad enough, the manner in which we lost it was shocking. And that, coupled with the bizarre and needless statement from the club on Monday and McCall's comments and general attitude before and after this game, which appeared that he wasn't overly bothered, is why even now three days on, the majority of the support are still angry at Wednesday's debacle. I said on Monday or Tuesday on here that McCall and the players owed the support a performance and a win at Ibrox for all the dreadful displays they've been subjected to over the years there. We got neither.

Jim Gannon appeared to have the right ideas and philosophies as to how the game should be played and it was evident that he was trying to change our style of play, but it was never going to work because it didn't suit the game up here. Now you may argue then, and rightly so, that that says a lot more about Scottish Football than it does about Gannon that we can't move away from the blood and thunder, punt and rush game that we're used to, but his visions were never going to work because he was never going to be here long enough for it to be fully put in place, regardless of all the stuff that went on behind the scenes when he was here. Motherwell managers are in post for what, two, maybe three years tops? That was never enough time to completely change our style of play and apart from that we didn't and weren't likely to be able to attract the players who would have been able to make that style effective. Mind you, saying that, Gannon did however make some very good signings, but unfortunately he couldn't manage them and the fact that numerous players on the books at the time openly disliked working for him, then Gannon was doomed to failure at Motherwell. To suggest that we would have beaten Rangers the other night had he remained in post is ridiculous and pointless because, a) he was never in it for the long haul and was, if you believe some rumours, actively trying to work his ticket from about October 2009, two months before he actually left, and b) We weren't that good when he was here and had he remained until the end of that season then we would have been fighting relegation with the majority of the squad ready for mutiny. We had been well and truly found out on the park and the only way we were heading was downwards and it really is to Craig Brown's great credit that he managed to come in, steady the ship and steer us to a top six finish in 09/10. Now, had Craig Brown still been our manager, then we might have had a better chance of beating Rangers the other night. But I suppose that's pointless saying that too.

Pretty sure that was the last time a Celtic player was red carded at Fir Park. There's been countless Motherwell players sent off in this fixture in that time though.

I remember my early days supporting Motherwell in the early-mid nineties when we (even me) went into games against Celtic at Fir Park seriously believing we had a great chance of winning, which we indeed do on a good few occasions. Even in the late 90s when Celtic had got their act together we still fancied taking them at Fir Park. And now? Now many 'Well fans - not me - see probably a defeat of less than 3 goals as some kind of moral victory.

Starting to head off topic I know, but has there ever been a Motherwell manager who spent such short a time in post as big Jimbo did that is still able to create so much interest and divide the support almost THREE years after they left the club??

No he's not a poor manager because we've lost to Rangers and Celtic and against European sides, in fact, Stuart McCall has actually done a very good job for us since he's been here. Whatever anyone thinks of him, two top six finishes, a Cup Final and qualifying for Europe is a great achievement. However I just don't think that as a football manager, Stuart McCall is particularly good. His tactics are predictable and very often ineffective and his attitude toward games against any side that is perceived to be bigger and better than us is dreadful.

:laugh:

It's not just games against Rangers that McCall falls short in, his record against Celtic isn't much better and our wee jaunt into Europe this season saw some embarrassingly inept and gutless displays too. I'm not defending McCall or the team, they deserve every single bit of the criticism they're getting for Wednesday night's debacle, but this talk that the result and performance was down to McCall "lying down to Rangers" is utter nonsense. He's not 'lying down' he's just got a poor attitude to games like this, something which will be all too evident again tomorrow. He's also not a very good manager into the bargain.

Because they've obviously went up against 'Rangers' with the right gameplan and right mentality and just went for it, getting stuck in, not giving them a minute on the ball or allowing their 'better' players any time to settle. I've not seen Rangers games against all of those sides but I saw them against QoS, Brechin and Peterhead and that is exactly how they played against them. They gave them nothing, what did we do? Our usual against them, completely shite ourselves. For example, lose every second ball in midfield, back off them when they're on the attack and when clean through on their goalkeeper with about a five yard start on reaching the ball, Nicky Law bottles it, jumps out the way and allows Alexander to clear it. That moment just sums up Motherwell vs Rangers, we just have absolutely no belief in ourselves or bottle to go out and take the game to them.

6-1 Celtic. They'll be right up for this one as they try to get their SPL season back on track and they've got the best place to start. If they are up for this one then this will be over by half time.

I agree the talk of McCall deliberately lying down to Rangers is nonsensical given that this dreadful record against them existed long before he came and will no doubt exist long after he's left the club. However our record in 'big' games, ie at Ibrox or Celtic Park, Cup Finals, Europe over the past few years has been deploreable and our performances in these games have, in my opinion, got worse since McCall became our manager. I'm fully aware that we weren't dominating Celtic or Rangers regularly and winning Cups under McGhee, Gannon or Brown, but it's the manner in which we lose these games that is so galling for me. We are beaten before we step out onto the park and seem to have a mentality that anything less than a 3-0 defeat is somehow acceptable. Then on top of all that, I've yet to see us get our tactics right in games like these under McCall and that is infuriating to say the least because you'd think, or at least hope that we'd learn our lessons at some point. Stuart McCall is not a 'Motherwell great' as the original poster asked, and won't be unless he finishes 2nd or 3rd for the next two or three years back to back, which let's face it, is a completely unrealistic target, or he oversees a Cup win, which just isn't going to happen as we don't have it in us to get the better of the 'big' teams, ie Celtic or Rangers.

Can't disagree with that. I'd rather never reach a Cup Final ever again than suffer the pathetic showing we put up against Celtic two seasons ago every time we get there.

Like I said, I'm not the one saying it tonight. Just interested that anyone else might be thinking along those lines though.

Bump Bump This isn't me calling for his head btw, just interested if others might be though...

If we play as poorly as we did tonight then we're looking at a minimum three goal defeat. If we play better and give them a game of it, then we'll still get beat. This game is a write off for us.

I'll crack the jokes. They'll be desperate to get their SPL campaign off the ground following a shaky start and what better place to kick start it than against Motherwell, who have the biggest inferiority complex in the league? The only question on Saturday will be of how many goals Celtic beat us by.

New club, different day, same gutless Motherwell performance against them.

That phrase should result in an instant ban on here!

The fact that the very sight of their jersey's causes Motherwell players' arses to collectively collapse.

Tonight was an example of why McCall will never be a 'Motherwell great' and to mention him in the same breath as Tommy McLean is, frankly, insulting.

What makes this even worse is that if they draw a Dundee Utd, Hearts or even Aberdeen in the next round then they will get absolutely humped. Our shower of shitebags couldn't rise to the challenge.