Brazilian

I'm on your side of the argument re the league structure but your miles off with these fantasy results you are generating where in all this are the teams that are going to take more points off Celtic? you think Thistle, Livvy, Raith, Morton are going to take more points off them than Hearts,Killie,Dundee utd,St Mirren & Ross county? Competitition will only happen, when over a sustained period more clubs are operating on a level playing field its going to be a while before all the mhankies have enough cash to go watch Liverpool , Man Utd etc so as long as Celtic are preaching to a captive audience they'll follow them and give them a financial advantage over the rest Think we all have to accept that and make the rest of Scottish football fit for those that still have any will to go and watch games I'm still against the proposals because they bring nothing to the table for the fans that support the game interesting that Leeann talks about PR, nothing better than asking your customers what they want from the game and then ignoring it just check all the club and league supporters surveys and see what this plan delivers but more worryingly, what does it do to stop the delcine in match attendences?

I thought all the commercial deals were significantly down on previous seasons and the SPL has the added burden of paying the SFL for Rangers match rights for TV, if so the Prize money would be down quite a bit on 2011 which you refereed to in the past and besides I'm pretty sure there has already been a carve up fo the money this season due to the summers shenanigans

LD in scotsman http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/football/leeann-dempster-well-on-the-way-to-a-12-12-future-1-2796142

Hutchinson,Carswell and Higdon were all tremendous but Nicky Law was the standout been a wee while since I've said it, but he is the footballer in our side, if only we can release him to do the job more often oh and special mention to Hately that tackle when Hutch had slipped, shows he still cares enough to fight for his team mates even if some fans have written him off

SPL era: ?? Kampmann outed for Billy Davies?? 98/99 Spencer 11 in 99/00 Elliot 10 in 00/01 Elliot/Faddy 10 in 01/02 Faddy 13 in 02/03 Clarky 11 in 03/04 McDonald 15 in 04/05 Foran 11 in 05/06 McDonald 15 in 06/07 Porter 14 in 07/08 Clarkson 13 in 08/09 Jutkiewicz 12 in 09/10 ?? in 10/11 Higdon 14 in 11/12 always makes me smile thinking back to Kirkie as a midfielder he made Higgy look like the Usain Bolt

that'll be the feeling of why bother, Diggle your description is harsh , Id say he got away with it once and thought it was acceptable if its that fans let the club down, he made the same or very similar comment at the society meeting, I choose to let it slide as poor choice of words and lets face it, it could be argued til the league goes bust the sheer blooded mindedness on both sides of any argument over whos messed up, without the ability to actually interrogate whats actually happened to the attendences means the like of Derek Weir will never be a fans representative, hes a businessman taking commercial decisions just a shame it doesnt involve what provides a rather large slice of income and more importantly is the very seed of what the rest of the income is generated from the club said they were going to do a lot on the back of the vote, I've seen some of it some to fruition in the last month or so, paid for by fans who said the would contribute more I've seen the club report that there was an increase in season ticket sales after the vote, so again the fans did what the club wanted, now if that means PATG numbers are down and ticket income as a whole is down, not exactly something you can blame the fans for and then you look at attendences, have we sold more season tickets? if we have yet crowds are down, whos fault is it that people who bought tickets in advance, but cannot attend games and whats the problems there. many of us said we voted to keep us coming along, who were these fans who said they would come back , doubt they were even in the discussion,

And if you look at the reasons why they are lapsed fans, most of them will be linked back to the club and the leagues decisions and actions Football used to be a relatively cheap, habitual event on a regular schedule that other social and family activities could be built around Adults could meet mates for a few hours every other week and still attend to families other regular schedules Others could build it in to a day out for the price of a couple of pints Kids could do all their other social and recreational clubs and still make every game with pocket money Thousands of people who just wanted a wee break from life for a couple of hours every weekend for some entertainment with some like minded souls But NO, now even people that spend time every day of their lives thinking/reading/writing about Motherwell can't build a regular schedule around SPL football It just doesn't fit in with enough people's lives And then you overcharge them if they do decide to try and attend a few matches Or you sell them a season ticket and let them rescheduled their lives to suit matches , but change match dates & ko times after they have As well as the dozens of individual obstacles that get put in the way You then add in directors and managers saying fans are the ones letting clubs down And even backing the likes of Doncaster who might be good at commercial contracts, but he has not got the support of paying punters due to his own actions and words All of it is at best bad PR, and the results are seen week in week out Edit: likewise ya beezer, I'm just not up for it anymore, its like fatigue, I sat through a presentation that was about relaunching something I love, but all it did was remind me that everything we see as killing our game as a spectator sport, which is the very essence of what I see the word 'club' as meaning after every team name, is secondary to commercial contracts

You must have been indecisive back then too, and went for £15 All noted in the opening post and noted on my laptop as a backup Hope to get it drawn soon folks

It's not been drawn yet mad dog I'll try and get all the names onto tickets and have someone draw it in the next week or so I'll also try once again and get the names sorted in the programme

Think if you look around you'll find a number of Motherwell supporters that are now just occasional supporters and many thousands that are just fans and even more who aren't even waiting on results coming in The discussions in general are about people's concerns that the dwindling numbers of supporters is steemed to give all you diehard but blindly loyal supporters some company

still plenty of grey areas Andy but yes restructuring the voting was mentioned 75% of votes required is the proposal dependant on the action being voted on, that would be 75% of each group/league or the whole lot Mr Weir added "there would be protected ares"

Nae bother , thanks, Rasta-pie

Dunno but probably doesn't help that they re-built all the schools on the previously open access recreation grounds

Yes Dave you get the point that was put across some clubs will simply not agree to single individual changes e.g to change voting rights, they know almost all clubs want it, but use their blocking vote to get some other factor included and in other instances, clubs cannot justify agreeing to a change like MFC for example could not vote to singularly distribute all the millions out of the SPL prize fund, or to exposing MFC to more relegation risk, but they can agree with it when it is bundled with the league restructure which removes other financial burdens and importantly also changes the financial risk management of finishing in the lower half of the league. hence the genuine belief from clubs that they have to go with this group of changes or stay as is, as they do not think any meaningful changes will get through all with the backdrop of no league sponsor and dropping prize funds and limited commerical income due to the unrest it was laid out that if Motherwell were to achieve 3rd again this season, then we would be £300-400k worse off, with whats in the SPL income and what has to leave due to old agreements for the SFL settlement and the added slice of TV money that had to be given away for Rangers tv rights as I said I didnt back the proposal as I for all the horse trading that has went on between clubs, and whilst they all sell it as for the benefit of the clubs ( incl fans) nothing has been included for the benefit of the matchday attending fan I tried to get across the point that it brings risk to ST sales, increased frustration of unknown opponents and even more match scheduling getting changed we heard that the club are frustrated at the likes of the early sunday TV slot on ESPN a deal that was basically outed as not financially worth the disruption and losses the clubs incur, well in my mind to get fans on board if we are all to make sacrifice of what we believe is for the good, then some leeway has to be given to fans If its not, then in my opinion the demise continues, with more fans choosing to have no ST , PATG fans cherry picking games, pricing still way too high along with the poor scheduling still strangling home and visting fans Lets just say majority at todays meeting , would nearly always go with your final statement about always supporting the are so roped up in the whole thing, but even some in that group are missing out on games and wondering why but we all know of many many more that are already missing or are on the brink of picking and choosing, none of which has been factored in, the clubs are as usual just expecting the same old fans to turn out but haven't even had the decency to factor in even one small token improvement, like scrapping the early Sunday ko

I attended, tried to tweet through a lot of it but when the nitty griity came out got distracted Really poor turnout, all excuses accepted, still gives the impression its not that serious an issue to society members? around 60 so whats that 6% of the society? 1-2% of the regular crowd? feeling around the room, is that most went in being against the proposal, and as has been indicated, most left showing they were in support of it I was one of three who said they couldn't (greetings comrade Steelboy, be interested in what DW took you aside at the end if to do with your non agreement) now I want to put that in context, I am only against it because once again all the clubs have forgot to even include any measures to alleviate any of the major gripes from all the fans surveys I have seen, the focus is very much on change and financials that allow survival, in many different potenital situations, versus the continued slow decline with the all but imposible task of bringing in step changes for good against falling revenue streams BUT, I do probably have more inclination to say that the sheer madness of 12-12-18 or 12-12-10-10 if the SFL so desire isnt what I'll choose to speak out against every fan should listen to the full breakdown of the proposals and the reasoning why, I reckon it'll be enough to sway at least 50% of you main jist is that , the package of changes is being supported over individual step changes ie change voting rights, because individual clubs will block single changes , whereas after many years of attempting to bring change about this is the first time they have been even close to full agreement and it is only becasue of the combined changes, changes that include taking a huge chunk of prize money being taken away from SPL 1st and 2nd prizes, as well as removing the SFL settlement payment and also removing the SFL £1mill slice of TV revenue for Rangers. all of which is being pooled and re-distributed down the leagues Supporting the top clubs of what is the SFL, with the aim of strengthening more Fulltime clubs away from boom or bust nature ( or as explained away from the bust or bust nature they and many SPL clubs are currently operating under) A lot of information was passed over, way too much for any one summation, so everyone that can should attend the next event and listen Weeyin and the far flung society members, the lack of coverage was raised, you have a real issue to take up with the society chairman, who mentioned it had been discussed, but really didnt give impression anything was to change. From unskilled shorthand notes outwith the distractions: LD Proposed League Reconstruction: Make change or do nothing LD lot of passion but a lot of misinformation, club want to let everyfan know facts LD only two options, go with the proposal or stay as we are (stay as are, crawling towards change but never get there) Proposal was explained, most will know its 12-12-18 various discussion on pros cons concerns etc, most I've read on here and other threads but what was elaborated on was the distribution of funds loads more GOING for a Beer might come back and add to post......

Anyone know where my membership card is? so that I can get in tomorrow

Just clocked this is on the Friday one week before Scotland Wales on the Friday night at Hampden So an extra day off with the international break for most of the squad

I know its general opinion but if we are budgeting expecting more than the 3 home Scottish cup games and the 1 home , 1 away we had in the league cup, then, as had been mentioned when it was revealed in the summer, its quite gross mismanagement of the budget from a board who claimed to be budgeting within our means not quite as bad but still quite incredible is the fact that the bonus structure pays out more than the rewards of success i.e a high placed league finish lets hope the people that made these mistakes correct them and quick

yip the club shop stock framed panoramic prints of Fir Park near to full on Euro nights against Nancy? and ?? thought they were on the old shop site but seem to no longer be on the new club shop site or you could try and purchase a digital copy of an image from photographers and get it transferred to canvas? EDit: the offical site has a link to motherwellpics lots of photos for sale in many formats including framed prints like the Euro night here http://www.motherwellpics.com/fir_park/print/1348971.html

I suspect there is already an amendment available, to get them to agree sad that the results of all the fans surveys and lip service given to whats important in the game has been cast aside and they all have choosen to back a plan that does not improve the overall standing of Scottish football clubs or indeed even improve the major flaw of over repetitive fixtures on the SPL calendar and poor scheduling and match pricing

The club have already approved the plan moving forward If the SFL Clubs accept it, then its only a paper exercise for it to happen Looks like the fans of SPL clubs who are opposed to the proposal will again have to rely on SFL clubs to oppose it, and then our clubs can again backtrack and make out they listened to fans

I reckon its bad news he left, but hopefully we still have enough to take the points There was real discontent amongst their fans ( and maybe hindsight their board) To the point they were calling for him to be sacked after the weekends game Accusations he was working against the club to make his position untenable, by subbing off, players who were contributing the most and other unusual activity

nice to know what as expected to happen, did so, despite the assurances that the Friday night football experiment was about getting fans into stadiums, it'll end up being just another TV slot being filled, without even the payback of cancelling the awful Sunday morning slots. remember getting questioned about what clubs have to gain by skewing the attendances with freebies and cutting prices for the original games, well here is the answer, more tv slots Friday 2nd December 2011 Motherwell v Hibs 6741 fans (1460 visiting Hibbies, new manager) no TV (match abandoned) All fans £10 adult £5 juveniles season ticket holders free ticket for friend Friday 21st December 2012 no TV St Mirren vs Motherwell 4023 fans (956 travelling wellfans) many youth groups given freebies and home kids were getting in for £2 away for £5 Friday 15th March ???? fans Motherwell v Hibs live on ESPN just more proof that no one should ever take what Neil Doncaster promotes as "for the fans" is ever the full story

YouTube sensation Club manager Music video star International coach

Guess it does Steelboy United play Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday-Tuesday we will play -----Sunday---------------------Tuesday Can't really see that 24 hours being huge influence to the lost goodwill, but hey fans always come back when they get put out, dont they?