Andy_P

Okay, part for me reckons this has already been discussed to death and another thread will mean we will only be going over old ground yet again. But another part of me thinks it will be interesting to find out just what the expectation level is for each us on here and how we feel the club should be backed. If you are weary of it I'm sure the thread will soon drop down the page! There's a belief that your life experiences condition your views and opinions on anything in life and it would seem natural to believe that applies to football also. But does it? Does experiencing relegation in the 1980's example give you a more rounded view of Motherwell's place in the grand scheme? Is someone who has only experienced the relative good times of post-administration MFC wrong in believing Motherwell should be up near the top of the table when it could be all they've known. I haven't asked for people's ages but I have asked to check off events that you have experienced to see if there's any correlation between years of experience and expectation levels and allied to that how you believe you should support the team. Difficult to guage also how exactly to put the questions but throwing it open for discussion nonetheless seeing as they are points that have been gone over quite a bit recently......

Thoughts and votes please folks...

And that's the thing with the East Stand. Harnessed in the right way the East Stand can really be that "twelfth man" for us. Witness the way Broadfoot and McLaren have gone to pieces in front of it and how the likes of McGeady have reacted. Look how often the players and management have been quoted as saying how much a positive atmosphere coming from it helps the team. But it can go the other way too. Craigan's not the first to remonstrate with supporters in there. I remember Stevie Kirk and Brian Martin to name but two responding in kind. Have a go back at someone giving stick by all means if that's how you feel, but if you don't fancy a potential confrontation just give the recipient of the stick as much vocal encouragement the next time there in your area.

A frustrating but ultimately a very rewarding afternoon. I thought that Murphy crafting an opportunity to early in the game might have set the tone but it never quite happened and the game quickly deteriorated. With Humphrey and Clancy hitting the woodwork it really felt like it was going to be one of those days and after that every time Aberdeen broke up the park it felt like it was almost inevitable they would sneak it and round off an awful week. The substitution of Murphy and the reaction it sparked is already being discussed elsewhere so won't go too much into that here but when I saw McHugh getting ready I assumed it would have been a similar change to midweek and a signal that we were going for it, when it was Murphy's number came up my first reaction was that we would remain like for like in set up. I would imagine that may also have been a factor in some fans frustration boiling over. Tweed, only a few posts up, gives a great analysis of the McHugh goal so again not too much to add on that. I do hope that by virtue of his winners in recent games (albeit the Hibs goal was ofcourse disallowed) that Bob has made strides in being viewed as a credible option up front, both by the support and most importantly McCall and not simply a bench-filler that you chuck on in the "hope" he might do something. Lessons for McCall to learn in that he perhaps has more scope in his squad for tweaking his selections and tactics that he may give his squad credit for but also for us as punters too. I think we need to waken up to the fact that by virtue of our start the styles employed by many teams on visits to Fir Park are going to mirror that of Aberdeen and we have to be prepared for it by showing a degree of patience and calm that we might not necessarily be comfortable with. Fortunately with goals at Paisley, Dunfermline, Clyde, what should have been a late winner in ET on Tuesday and today our team are showing themselves as quite adept at snatching goals at the end of games and again its perhaps worth keeping that in mind too if we haven't been able to put a game to bed as early as we might have hoped. But overall we got there. Not pretty, very frustrating at times but we got there.

Thoughts and votes please folks....

Penalty shoot-outs are great.....when its not your team that's involved in them! Hard to know what to make of it. Great game of football. Some fine displays. Good spirit shown by the players. Plenty of chances of created. Yet here we are - papped out. Thought it was a slightly jittery start that we overcame and a bit like Saturday they scored a bit against the run of play. Roughly about the same time too. So it was pleasing to see the response that came this time and delighted for Higdon to get that monkey off his back at Fir Park. Should buy him a wee bit of time at least. Second half Randolph came into his own on a few occasions but just when you thought we'd done enough we blow it. I wouldn't say their equaliser wasn't undeserved by any manner of means but to be about five minutes from seeing it out was a scunner. Was the Jennings sub forced or tactical? Interesting if it was through choice as I thought we were the only team that looked likely to win in extra time. And there were the penalties...... I don't buy into this its only the League Cup stuff. I want Motherwell to win it every season, or at least have our day in the sun at Hampden so it hurts that we're out. And will only be more so if it proves to be the case - as was being suggested on the radio as I came - that the goal disallowed for us wasn't actually offside. Looking at the bigger picture I think if Saturday and tonight has shown anything that there isn't a huge gulf between much of the SPL outwith the top two. That's hardly news ofcourse but I think we'll see a bunching together of a lot of teams. I'd like to think we still have it within us to remain in the top half but nice as it is to be 3rd just now I can see it being the case that being 3rd will still prove to be not so very far ahead points wise of 7th or 8th place for much of the season.

Your thoughts and votes please folks....

In an odd sort of way Saturday's defeat could turn out to be very reason why do get the committed performance needed to see them off tonight. Any complacency that might have been building up will have been well blown out of the water following the weekend.

Going off topic for a sec that might have been the game behind the Perth Tractor Drivers dislike of Stevie Hammell - with the alleged racial abuse of Momo Sylla. And why they took such delight in him being largely responsible for their 2nd on Saturday.

Think its a finely balanced game but one, with home advantage we should be looking to win. I wouldn't go over the score with the changes. For me the only one I'd make would be to have Forbes in for Humphrey which incidently, I would also have done on Saturday too once it appeared obvious the system wasn't working. My thinking is that with Forbes as an outlet for Clancy, whose distribution was absolutely awful on Saturday and to a lesser extent Crags we can actually look to build attacks rather than the hopeful high ball to Higdon or the hopeful long ball into space for Humphrey that we can descend into. With an extra man in the centre of the park I'd like to think that with the creative duties put upon Forbes shoulders there will be less onus on Lasley and Jennings and they can offer a bit more backbone when faced with breakaways than they did at the weekend. Going forward I'd look to give Law and Murphy the freedom to switch wings and between the midfield and attack linking with Higdon whenever possible. That would still allow us up three attacking options on the bench should we be chasing the game in McHugh, Humphrey and Daley. Having said that he can pick who he likes as long we win!!

Call it dig, bottle, character, mental strength, call it what you will, but I agree there are certainly times when it appears we could be doing with a supply of it. I think it was gilmour elsewhere who suggested painful as it was we should cut them slack for that one today. A continuation on Tuesday and next Saturday, then that changes things altogether. I think that's fair - for the short term. Any Motherwell team no matter how well we've been doing has it in them to shit in the nest. Thinking here for example McLeish's side who finished runners-up losing 6-1 to eventually relegated Dundee Utd, or losing 3-0 to Falkirk later on that season when we still had to secure a Euro place. And staying with the Bairns there was a 3-0 at Fir Park when we appeared to be at the peak of our powers under McGhee. So an unexpected and shit result in itself is hardly rare. The key thing first and foremost will be the immediate response on Tuesday and Saturday but it is an increasing worry the way we have been on the wrong end of some right hidings to non-Old Firm sides this calender year 3-1 Killie (going on 5 or 6), 3-0 at Inverness, 4-0 Dundee Utd and now 3-0 to St Johnstone despite us enjoying some relatively good times in this period. One such result in isolation hints at a bad day at the office. A series of results suggests there is clearly something wrong somewhere. The debate last week was of the mentality of the team when facing the Old Firm, I think in view of these not irregular hidings where we seem to just capitulate at certain point in the game, that could also applied to some of these games also. The point was always going to come sooner or later where our mettle would be tested when we went a goal behind to a fellow diddy team. We did not respond at all well today and that has to be addressed in conjunction with the manager being a bit more pro-active in changing formation and/or personnel when things aren't going our way. In the short term I hope a desire to set things straight/kick up the arse/wake up call will have the necessary impact to see us past Hibs and Aberdeen. Longer term the mental side of the team has to be worked upon or the manager has to look to bring in a player(s) who has that mentally already instilled within them to drag the team kicking and screaming when the need arises. That bit I suspect is more easily said than done though!

Another week where its going to be difficult to pick a Man of the Match, but try your best eh.......

Indeed. Interesting to know if the poster applied the same "made your bed" principle to Lasley, Hammell and O'Donnell? Was he against their returns too? Worth remembering that gilmour, was a fairly vocal critic of Sutton on the boards. I do agree though that there is almost no chance of any return.

I would contest that althought it depends what you might class as a "big game" I suppose. Certainly he didn't have a great Scottish Cup Final or performed particularly well in the most recent games against the Old Firm. But consider the Semi Final where he scored a sensational solo goal, or the Quarter Final replay against Dundee Utd both of which I'd class as big games. He's our top scorer in Europe, with a hat-trick, among his goals and again I'd class any 'Well game in Europe as something a bit more special than the norm. He also had a big influence in us coming back from 3-1 down at Ibrox a couple of seasons ago to get a 3-3 draw so its not as if he's never done it against the Old Firm. Perhaps a more true reflection might be to say his some of his less memorable displays have unfortunately coincided with those where he's been watched with a view to more international recognition.

If he did consider a return south I'm sure someone would take a punt on him, but his record down there with a couple of teams has hardly been startling. He certainly doesn't have the same standing there as he has in Scotland.

I rather fear that any letter to them would likely result than you getting a reply that's already sitting stored somewhere on a hard-drive at Celtic Park or that it'll present them with an ideal opportunity to rhyme off the all the awards their wonderful fans and club have picked up for their behaviour and all the schemes they are signed up to that look good at the footer of a letter. However if you do decide to write to them, I'd also include the fact they are going to lose your money more than just complaining about the stewards What about something along these lines.... Dear Mr Lawwell, I write in relation to my visit to Celtic Park on Saturday 10th September, to support my team, Motherwell. I regret to advise you that as well as being somewhat uncomfortable viewing on the park it proved to be a very unpleasant afternoon off it too, the cause of which I must largely put down to the tactics employed by the stewards and police controlling the visiting section. It was very apparent that what seemed to be considered a perfectly acceptable way of backing ones team and engaging in the matchday experience by stewards and police on one of side of the segregation cordon was most definitely deemed unacceptable by those patrolling the visiting section. Similarly the zero-tolerance approach that was used to police the Motherwell support was clearly not in evidence just a few yards away to my right. Unfortunately such stewarding policies appear to have become the norm on trips to Celtic Park in recent years and I must advise that I am seriously considering joining the bulk of the Motherwell support who will simply no longer countenance a visit to Celtic Park for those very reasons. I would imagine the prospect of a few Motherwell fans deciding against a visit to Celtic Park might not rank high upon your agenda of concerns but it is worth noting that it isn't so many years ago that rather than two hundred, two thousand travelling Motherwell fans were more the norm when travelling to Parkhead. I note that around a quarter of the stadium was empty on Saturday and I am sure that even a club the size of Celtic are not in a position to alienate hundreds of supporters who could potentially be filling some of those empty seats through the actions of stewards and police operating on your behalf, thereby costing your club a considerable amount of money. I would therefore ask that you give serious consideration to altering the stewarding methods employed by those monitoring the visiting section otherwise I very much suspect you will continue to see reduced incomes from smaller and smaller travelling supports. Yours sincerely

It's a hard one to put your finger on. I think there are elements from several posts folk have made that require to be addressed for us to tackle the problem. Clearly McCall has to find a system that works against them, there has to be something psychological in there too and much as we might not particularly like to hear it we do need some things to go our way on the day against them. Dundee Utd have been mentioned as an example of a way to approach games against them but we've been there ourselves in the past. I don't think its co-incidental that once you do seem to find a way through them you can go on a relatively sustained run against them. Think back to the way we used to get results almost on a game by game basis against Celtic in the late 80's and 90's. We virtually expected a result against them. You can argue that they were poor then but we did the same to a lesser extent against Rangers when they were in the midst of the nine-in-a-row spell. There has to be something in the mindset that gave those players of that era the confidence to go out and get those results that we can try to tap into. Would it be so ludicrous an idea for McCall with Dougie Arnott "hammer of the Old Firm" and Stevie KIrk both on the club's staff from that period to get them to offer advice on how they approached games under McLean? Not just down to believing you are going to get a result ofcourse. The formation and set up are ofcourse vital too. A quick scan through the pre-and post match chat and this thread offers up different ways of approaching the games. You've got some advocating a do as we usually do, others want to tweak the formation and go with an approach that tries to make us a little harder to beat as a starting platform. McCall seems to have gone for the latter in the main, tried the "normal" approach the odd time, got cold feet and reverted to type since. There is ofcourse the argument that players at that level should be comfortable in adapting to varying formations between games and indeed during games but the evidence shows that playing a certain formation for most games then changing it just for the Old Firm doesn't appear to have done us a great amount of good given the thumpings we've endured. Perhaps it might be better to go with our tried and trusted and attempting to get a lead which you can then look to hold, rather than trying to protect a point and having little or no chance of recovering if you happen to go behind - particularly if its early on in the game? Much to think about for McCall in these games.

Thoughts and votes please folks...

Does the rule not still exist though that you can only have a maximum of four home league games broadcoast throughout the season? Take out their two Old Firm games, the first game of the season for whoever won the title the season before then that doesn't leave a huge amount of room of scope for covering their other games.

Slightly off topic but but the Wee Rovers are taking a bus to Broomfield tomorrow for the 'shire derby and that's about two miles up the road - admittedly though that's because some of them fear a bleaching but still....

I'm not really too bothered looking back the way at what he was or wasn't offered or whether we should be feeling sorry for him or having a wry wee smirk. It's what Hearts and he does now that's quite interesting. Who realistically in Scotland could afford to buy him from Hearts. Can't be many. And are they really going to pay up what could be hundreds of thousands of pounds just to get him off the wage bill? Madnessif they do. I can't imagine we'd be in any position to offer a return if he was available on a free at some point, with his wages now utilised elsewhere. Would be nice mind. Although nothing against him but better for us I think he's sitting in the stand at Tynecastle third or fourth choice than banging the goals for one of our opponents in the league. So feel free to take your time to resolve this one Hearts!

Have they beat us in the League Cup since then? I'm remembering beating them a couple of years after that, 1-0 at Fir Park possibly a Quarter Final with Jamie Fairlie maybe scoring and ofcourse there was the rather delicious 4-2 leathering they got at Easter Road under McGhee. I remember Scottish Cup defeats but anything else in between League Cup wise?

Ask them nicely, maybe they'll let you trade your benefits for another ever hilarious 500 animated images or something.

Jamiaca Football Federation

Is it not just the case though that there is a slight bit of a gap between the likes of Saunders and the next crop coming through. That whilst our squad is young in general some of them have just crept above the U21 threshold or have yet to establish themselves enough in the first team to warrant inclusion? If you want to take some consolation both Josh Watt and Stuart Carswell were picked for the U19's squad.