weeyin

I still think that was due to the expectation of the fans though. If Butcher had produced the same performances after, say, McGhee left the club, he'd have been out after season 1. The whole "we're all in it together" mentality, which was galvanized by Butcher's presence, meant fans were a lot more forgiving (which was a good thing). Suddenly, it wasn't just about playing nice football or winning games - it became about survival as a club and the identity of a town. And none of this is knocking Butcher. My position has always been he was the right man at the right time and I'm glad he was there when he was. I just think he gets an easier ride because of the circumstances. McGhee was slated for the way he left the club, but he was much more up front and honest than Butcher was in that regard. Overall, though, just one more reason to make the most of enjoying our good seasons, because most years are going to be mediocre at best.

Being better than the last 2 seasons isn't exactly setting the bar high. Fans expectations were much lower after coming out of administration, but on pure footballing terms, there was a lot of mince on show.

Aye, he definitley thought a Celtic move was guaranteed. I don't know if it was his agent the misled him or Celtic were messing with him, but the St Mirren move was definitely not a career progression at that time. Great player, though.

He was quite happy, though. Loved his day job and just played football for fun. I remember reading an article about him after he 'retired'. I think he had moved to London as his job, from memory, was working with troubled and underprivilged kids - basically Social Work. He was still playing for his local amateur team and nobody had a clue who he was. So they were always amazed when this overweight Scottish guy turned on his ball skills. Amazing talent. Arguably the most naturally gifted Scottish player I have ever seen. Could curl a 40 yard free kick with no run up and could literally beat defenders without moving. And loved chatting to the fans - mostly in the middle of games.

3 at the back then - that'll confuse them.

Had forgotten about Bernie Grant - also, a good shout.

The curse of the Scottish game. Running about better rewarded than footballing skill. Remembering my post in another thread, John McKeever looked a prospect at one stage. Then there was that season in the First Division when the players were raving about how Paul Mills had a great future if he just kept his head screwed on (which I assume was code for "he needs to screw the nut"). Was never seen again.

The point is a huge section of our fans don't have the patience to let our youngsters develop in the first team with inconsistent performances and inevitable mistakes. I'm all for giving them the opportunity, but I defer to the U20s boss when it comes to assessing readiness.

I don't think he's going backwards - I just think it's unrealistic to expect him to step into the right back slot and solve our problems. He's still pretty raw and inconsistent despite his talent and any decent SPFL winger is likely to take advantage of that.

Did you see Watt's performance in the last U20s game? Amazing goal he scored, but had a bit of nightmare defensively. Crags didn't sound like he thought he was quite ready for the step up.

McGhee said he needed to see guys play that he hadn't see play before, so he gave them a run out. Guys like McDonald, he said he already knew about. Of.course, that might just be some spin, but does make some sense as he will need to evaluate the squad asap.

Butcher was the right man at the right time due to the club's circumstances, but a lot of the football we payed under him was brutal. If Faddy hadn't been in the squad at the time I suspect Butcher would be remembered somewhat less favourably.

McLair - just another European trophy winner created by the Motherwell treadmill.

And McVie seeing a red card in the 2nd half. Which apparently was for a 2nd bookable offence, despite everyone who was at the game (including myself) swearing years later it was a straight red for deliberate handball. That's how legends are formed.

Nope, I don't think it was anything close to that. He could have left at the end if his last full season and been a strong candidate for the Rangers job. It seems pretty clear he stayed on one more season (one season too long as it turned out) because he wanted a run at some silverware. That ended prematurely, even by our standards, and then I think him, and the rest of the team, ended up somewhat demotivated. The bad luck with injuries played a part too, but can't really complain too much as we had good luck the seasons we were best of the rest. In a couple of interviews, he also sounded genuinely pissed off that Baraclough was given access to a lot more resources under the new owner that he was denied in the first half of the season.

It will still be better than the one the Well Society uses to record their meetings.

Hope you get a good turnout, lads. Would have come along if I was 3000 miles closer.

Aye, Fergie had that team playing dirty, niggly football. They were just upset we beat them at their own game. By far the biggest crowd I've experienced inside Fir Park.

And, from memory, we only ended up with a draw in that game.

What about Crawford Baptie's Fir Park debut against Dundee? Scored both our goals and looked like he might be a player. Just goes to show...

Even the good guys can show a level of bigotry though - and not just OF fans. I have known a few fans of various teams who seem pretty level-headed before coming out with some weird sectarian comments. It runs deep in the West of Scotland on both sides of the religious divide.

Wasn't just linked - he almost signed for them

Like I posted in one of the Baraclough Out threads, Tommy McLean's stats in the SPL are pretty grim reading by recent standards (but not by the standards of when he took over) After winning the First Division in the 84/85 season we managed: 85-86: 9th out of 10 - saved by league expansion from 10 to 12 teams 86-87: 8th 87-88: 8th 88-89: 9th 89-90: 6th 90-91: 6th 91-92: 10th 92-93: 9th 93-94: 3rd - First time we finished in the top half of the SPL under McLean No way he'd have lasted that long in the current environment. Back on topic, I remember John McKeever's winning performance against an excellent Dundee Utd team that had the Daily Record tagging him as the next Gerd Muller.

Related to the other thread, I think McLair's 5 goals in 2 games to beat Celtic & Rangers in consecutive home games ranks as pretty memorable.

Was the Anglo Scottish cup, I think - after the bigger clubs gave up on the Texaco. I do remember it, though.