StAndrew7

We all know we're never going to compete with the likes of Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs in terms of support and finances (current off-form seasons aside for the latter two). Realistically, I think the best we can hope for is regular mid-table football, occasionally getting into the top-6 and maybe the odd decent cup run. There will be seasons like we had in the early 2010s under McCall and under Robinson more recently where we get to cup finals and perform well in the league etc. but we're never going to be able to sustain that with a core fanbase of what, 4,500? External investment in the order of what we're anticipating this to be isn't going to be anywhere near enough to sustain a consistent level of top-6 performance or allow us to compete budgets wise with the three teams I've mentioned previously. So the question then, is, what do I/we/you expect from it to get us to the "next level"? I've seen this phrase used a number of times, now. I'm genuinely interested to where people think we need to go and what you would define the "next level" as?

Based purely on speculation and my (very limited) understanding of things, for those three groups: 1) Fans will get they get through whatever is released publicly; the general public isn't necessarily entitled to see details of any proposal that's under NDA/exclusivity agreements, I think? 2) Private shareholders will (at least) receive details on the share purchases, the associated value of investment, the resulting % stakes in the Club and source of funds evidence. I would imagine a business plan would be included in that to detail exactly what the investment is going to bring us (aside from some cash) and how EB will make his return. I would also hope for an understanding/proposal of how any shares can be brought back into the club/WS holding, should EB decide it's not for him after x/y/z years of buying in or not getting his expected ROI. 3) I would expect WS members will receive communication from the WS Board re: the investment, I can't see why this wouldn't be the same information as private shareholders will receive; I think other communications from the Board mentioned that they would provide their own position on the investment to the members, too? As for receiving the Society's own investment/re-invigoration proposal, surely that should be a thing, regardless of the potential outside investment? It's been discussed and mentioned enough that it should be published and shared, as far as I'm concerned. Like you say; otherwise we continue the way we are and there's a clear move away from fans to accept the status quo/potential to end up where we end up. I've banged the drum a lot to say that there's no reason a reinvigorated WS can't work alongside an external investor and I still believe that, although I accept it's very much cake and eating it. Maybe we should move this to the other thread? 😬

shialabeoufrapturousapplause.gif You're spot on; the definition/understanding of "investment" in a football club has been overtaken by what's happened at Wrexham, other clubs down south and across Europe. I agree that I think most fans would be interested in investment but it very, very much depends on what that all entails. We already know anything EB is going to propose isn't going to be transformational, so I think people need to realise we're not going to go out and sign every free agent we're linked with because there's an American investing £500k (or whatever) a season over the next few years. On your last two points, I think the BBC interview came as a result of all the speculation and the club releasing its statement on exclusivity. I imagine it was more of a taster of his plans rather than concretely laying them all out because negotiations were in their (relative) infancy; it was what, 8 weeks ago now? Longer? Like you, I'm anticipating/hoping for a comprehensive business plan/investor pack to be provided if and when the time comes for a vote on his proposal, with an exact timeline of his investment and when and where funds will come from (with particular emphasis on the where because if it's anything other than cold hard cash that's an immediate red flag). If we don't get that, how can we be expected to make an informed decision on any proposal(s)? Anyway, back to transfer rumours; Kofi Balmer, anyone? Someone on P&B saying we've had a bid knocked back and, I know this may shock people, St Mirren are also interested in him. Also that we've lost out on 3 keepers so far, so perhaps that Brentford lad was on the radar, after all!

Surely by actually being him, you'd know the answer to that already.

He was dead gid at putting cones out against St Johnstone, so makes sense.

I'm not sure the Brentford keeper was ever on our radar tbh, other than a Twitter account naming us alongside St Mirren and Killie. They are both in far stronger positions than us to sign players; the prospect of some European football and the associated income means the tables have flipped compared to when we were enjoying that time in the early/mid 2010s (although you would argue that Dempster didn't run things quite as well as she should have with changes to budgets etc.) As for the Easton rumour, it's just a rumour and always has been - Scott Burns (quoted a few pages back and on P&B) has said he's not heard much of it at all. That could easily be someone seeing he plays a similar position to Spittal, is ooc and would be a replacement along the lines of our typical signings, or someone else mentioning we had a PCA with a Raith player agreed and putting them together. I agree that it all comes down to our wage hierarchy and the context of where any player would fit in our squad; at the time those players (Murray etc.) were signed by others, I imagine we'd have had the likes of KVV, Kelly and others earning a significant chunk of our available wages and we'd never have been in the market for them, anyway. Competing with other clubs wise, I agree it's a bit grim, but Dundee spunking money on players is all well and good, but when you look at the state of their stadium and pitch; the ownership are gambling big on getting the new stadium and if they don't I think they'll be in trouble.

I very much doubt any of the leadership/management at the club will be delaying anything relating to next season's plans and signings based on potential investment. If they are, I would seriously question why they're in the roles they are. I agree we might be able to afford a bit more quality and if/when it comes through there might be a bit of an increase in our budgets but it won't be as transformational as that. It might mean a few extra loans/deadline day signings but I'm not expecting it to have a huge impact.

Aye, exactly. The way it was explained to me by someone who's fairly in the know, was that some of the ooc players have been offered terms based on our first/primary targets maybe not coming to us etc. and rather than going back cap in hand after they've said no, we've basically offered terms to them with the proviso that we'll be looking to bring in others for those positions as well as having them renew (which fits well with the narrative of offering reduced terms to Butcher and others).

I get that, but we've got the manager, assistant manager and CEO on record saying we want (some?) new players in for the pre-season tour, which starts in a fortnight. I understand that not everyone we're planning to bring in will be with us by then but if they're on the record saying that and we bring in a couple of players, or worst case no-one, people will understandably start to get a bit tetchy. I'm by no means worked up/concerned about it personally, but can totally understand why some people might get that way in the next 1 or 2 weeks given what we've already heard. Exactly this; had anyone heard of Davor before we signed him?

I would hope we'll make some announcements soon, with most Scottish contracts finishing tomorrow. Livi have announced plenty (eight, I think) signings, including Reece McAlear who's under contract until the end of June at Tranmere. I don't see a problem, particularly given they announced Anderson was leaving already.

Their announcement videos were good value: https://x.com/KilmarnockFC/status/1795843044719341983 https://x.com/KilmarnockFC/status/1795845806114935222

He has an option for a further year, which based on what Weir said at the AGM, the club was in control of. Edit: actually, he might have meant newer contracts with options. Perhaps his is player controlled and they're trying to tell him to GTF, hence the no mention of him.

I thought Mallan would be in his mid-30s by now. Nope. 28. 😳 I've not seen enough/remember anything of Robertson, but he seems to fit the bill for the kind of signing we'd make. 30 now, has decent experience in Championship/League 1.

Partick, Montrose, Edinburgh City and Clyde, then.

I think that's partly down to him telling management/the club that he was offski, even if they did get promoted?

How does that prove he won't be signing for us? If they've already made up their minds on signing him (the rumour has been around since the start of the year), they may have been watching someone else. e.g. Dąbrowski.

If that's the case, I guess it depends what we're signing him for. If it's as a direct replacement for Spittal, I'd be concerned. If it's as a squad player/impact sub on a relatively decent wage I'd probably be OK with it.

Absolutely this. It's clear there was no Plan B last season and I guess that comes from him being so wedded to the 3-4-2-1 / 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 system with (eleventy billion) wing backs. There absolutely must be a different style/formation for us to play next year, otherwise we'll be found out and teams will know the exact recipe required to nullify us.

Captain, leader, two footed legend.

There aren't any financial gaps to plug, though. The club is on course to break even this season, before any additional transfer income is considered and will have a decent reserve of cash, so why would it be? As for Bair; take the money, although there's a bit of a double-edged sword with the Copa America. If he scores a couple there and catches the eye (although he absolutely won't be starting ahead of Jonathan David), we should be looking for a bit more, imho. Perhaps a clause in the negotiations that increases the price by £xyz if he scores some international goals. Use 50-75% of it to bring in a bit more quality/replacements for him and Spittal, then keep the rest for January. Although we all know that's not really how transfer fees work these days, so it'll be what it'll be.

Or he'll shine more and more, lead them forward and demonstrate just how shit hot a player he is. See? It works both ways.

Yeah, I'd certainly be looking for an avenue to be asking questions of the Exec Board/Club/Directors as a private shareholder, so I would absolutely expect the same avenue for members of the WS. You latter point is absolutely spot on, too. English football will burst at some point; it almost did with the Super League proposals and, frankly, that will come around again and with other American ownership coming in (and FIFA/PL announcing the possibility of domestic games being played abroad) it will just continue to become more and more of a circus. There's a few basket case clubs already, see Everton, Forest etc.

These two points are 100% where I'm coming at this from, too. There needs to be a "secure" exit/route for the WS to buy back any shares issued to investors to regain its original holding (or however that will work in any proposal). On the second point, if there are details of a proposed investment issued and it's a comprehensive package, I'll be taking an afternoon or full day off work to go through it line by line, in detail (because I'm a bit sad like that). It needs to be given proper consideration, as (stating the obvious) it has the potential to be massive for the club, both positively and negatively. However, if it proposes the WS/fans losing majority ownership, I won't bother looking at it at all.

Yeah, I said on P&B if there had more notice about this (and the potential for it to open up to non-members) with more than a few weeks' notice I'd have been right up for it, but I'm nowhere near as fit as I would need to be to actually enjoy the game.