Joeboy

I made the trip up against my better judgement and to say we were diabolical was an understatement. We were the better team around about the phantom goal, but we never really turned that into anything substantial. The linesman definitely deserves disciplined over that, especially when he didn't give us a corner in bizarre fashion shortly after. Not buying into the paranoia it was about Motherwell, but he should definitely be held to account for his actions. I've long since been a defender of Hammell on here, we're all aware of his deficiencies in terms of pace and things now but I've long since been an advocate of the fact that we are a better team with him than without him due to his ability on the ball and good touch. However, I don't know whether he was half fit on Saturday or not, but he looked dreadful and they almost seemed to target it at time. His booking was a direct result of him being off the pace and he didn't seem to have an answer for anyone running at him. For me, an ideal situation in the summer would have been to give Hammell a 1 year deal and punt Chalmers and use our budget to sign a left back who had the ability to replace Hammell. Instead we have two left backs who can't keep fit and it makes Hammell's two year deal seem even more excessive. I was impressed with McMillan when he came on and I'd say stick with him just now regardless. The only thing that annoys me about him was how often he had to turn inside on to his right foot. Tait seems to be comfortable with both feet, so it may make sense to switch them about. I feel almost dirty having a pop at two club legends one after the other, but Saturday was yet another game that I felt passed Lasley by. These days he always seems to be overrunning himself and pulling himself out of position, as he doesn't have the legs to get back. It was fine last season when more often than not he was the holding player with the legs of Pearson and Cadden/Grimshaw beside him, but his days of being effective in a 4-4-2 look gone for me. When I seen the lineup initially, I was despairing of the fact we dropped Lucas until I noticed he was injured. The harsh reality of this is despite Lasley's shortcomings, we'll probably have to persevere with him, unless we give young Campbell a go. One of his competitors seems to be made of glass and the other has a freak injury. I've liked Heneghan so far but their second saw him make an awful decision, followed by getting beaten far too easily. Decision making was poor all over the park, as epitomised by McDonald giving the ball away leading to chances twice (one of which they scored). Clay and Moult also both had an afternoon where every choice was the wrong one. I liked Clay a lot to begin with and although he does seem like a good grafter, I am concerned about the lack of quality he adds and I don't think he compliments Lasley well. Thomas and MacLean offered nothing when they came on, MacLean didn't see much of the ball and I wouldn't blame him too much as it was a tough game to come onto. Thomas seen a little bit more of the ball and while the environment wasn't the best for him to come on and play, he didn't seem to be a creative outlet when he had the ball, didn't look capable of beating a man or playing a good pass or cross, I think his days must be numbered, seems to have gone backwards if anything. The other thing that gets me is in a performance so dire, Bowman isn't thought of to be able to make a better difference than those two as well as Blyth and Kennedy not on the bench whilst picking up a first team wage. I'd like to see our squad imbalance to be addressed in January but I wonder how much scope we'll have. I hope a Pearson return in January is on the cards. At this stage, I could probably be talked into driving to India in my Vauxhall Corsa to pick him up myself...

I'd say keep him. His posts are so ridiculous they make for entertaining reading. He has similar sincerity levels to Jay from the inbetweeners.

Forbes did flourish under Gannon when we were playing that 4-2-3-1 formation, but I think that was largely down to the fact he was playing as a number 10, with Hateley the holding player (probably the only period in which I rated him as a midfielder) and Coke who's engine allowed him to go box to box. It took both the right formation and the right players around him to make him succeed for us. After Brown came in, he always played two up top and there wasn't anywhere in a four where Forbes particularly fitted. By then the midfield two tended to be Lasley and Jennings. Lasley was still his box-to-box self in those days but for all Jennings strengths, he was far from quick and even had Brown reverted to a different formation, it would probably have been tough to get away with two slow players in the engine room. As frustrating as it was that he didn't follow up on his good start, we were always relatively successful after that and as such, good enough that there wasn't a necessity to try and fit him into the team. By the time he left we had Law who scored and created goals from midfield, as well as being more versatile and more mobile. I do always kinda view his Motherwell career in two parts, the part leading up to his penalty miss at New Douglas Park and the part afterwards.

I was just coming on to give the lad credit, as he certainly didn't need to extend his deal with us and I assumed when he signed a two year deal in March that we would have tabled a third year, but an agent would have advised him against it in the best interests of his career. He seems to have his head screwed on and to enjoy playing for us, so maybe it is a good show of loyalty. Or maybe the cynic/realist in you is more likely

I was all for McGhee coming back last season. I think in the way he left last time he was always going to be a panto villain when he was Aberdeen manager to some extent, but the levels our support take it to are extremely precious. When we were looking for a manager last season, I couldn't have named you someone better we could have had to take over. Last season had peaks and troughs for him and people seemed to look out for excuses to criticise him. There were derogatory chants about him when we beat St. Johnstone at Fir Park just after Christmas last year and then one of the offenders argued on twitter with me that he wasn't in the wrong singing them (the same chants heard at Pittodrie in 2009) about his own manager. Utterly baffling. He claimed that it was okay to support Pearo as he had been humble in his return. Was beginning to think the East Stand was turning into an episode of loose women. Also, at McDiarmid Park in February, I was utterly ashamed at how our support were willing him to fail so badly. People also used the angle that his appointment was a stagnation in youth development, yet when he trusted Cadden and Hall to start, week in, week out, they were left to question that one. Not McCall nor Baraclough could have claimed to do that. This season I have questioned some of his tactics, some of his decisions and some of his signings. Some of the recruitment I have questioned (see my post in the Inverness thread for greater detail) but how I tend to rationalise his decisions that I don't agree with seems a million miles away from those who'd be bringing pitchforks if they could get away with it. The league table and the game were as bleak as each other last Wednesday, but at this stage of the season it's far too close to call anything. From the depths of despair on Wednesday to Saturday's great win we jumped two places alone. I thought after the Inverness defeat it was a big three games coming up, we've already won one of them. Considering if McGhee does well then we do well, then I'm all for getting behind him. As people say, he does have his flaws, but if he didn't he wouldn't be managing us. He took us from one week away from relegation to our highest finish for thirteen years, followed by finishing a comfortable 7th the following season. It was disappointing not to get top six that season, but we struggled badly when Craigan and Clarkson were injured for a fair chunk early on in the season and the defeat to St. Mirren to cost us it was poor, but a club our size should be reasonably pleased with finishing there. Then upon his return he streamlined Baraclough's poor squad and took them to a 5th place finish, a very credible turnaround from being 11th in February. This season his budget and has been cut and I don't think all of it has been used too wisely, as I've alluded to, but it's far too early to think about his position for rational reasons. I want a football manager of the club I support to be a good manager first and foremost. He might not be the "nice guy" Baraclough was perceived as, he might not be "one of the lads" like McCall was perceived but if he does a good job I don't give two hoots. I don't think many of the things he gets criticised for are specific to him and I think that he gets a far worse time for it than previous managers did. For what it's worth, I think the way he left the last time was nowhere near as bad as the way Craig Brown left.

The days after the Inverness were when a lot more people would have been spending the day sitting at a computer, probably making them more likely to come on here. Maybe the County posts will have surged after today.

The three changes all made massive differences in their own right, could easily have gone for any of them, opted for Lucas in the end. Cadden deserves a mention as well as that trio.

If you're using hatred in the literal sense, then it very much is pathetic. If you "hate" someone based on your perception of their personality and your experience of them managing a football club you support, it says far more about you than it ever could about them.

Whether he fails his fitness test or not, no Lasley for me tomorrow. I thought he looked badly off the pace on Wednesday and don't fancy him on two games in four days.

What does Samson need to do to get dropped? Particularly when our sub keeper isn't an inexperienced youngster, he's 30, with plenty of experience. Why sign a guy of his ilk if he isn't going to get a chance when the other keeper is honkin? Ainsworth has to come in for me, purely for the chance he "may" create something and no one the other night looked as if that was a remote possibility. Also, Skippy must return as the ball does not stick up top without his hold up play, as is apparent every game he misses, thus putting us under so much pressure. McManus is one I've been a big critic of in the past, but I thought he was having a reasonably good season until the penalty debacle at Celtic Park and his performance the other night. Would I drop him? Probably not. Don't fancy Ferguson or a half fit Kennedy alongside Heneghan, not that experienced himself. It seems a case of "better the devil you know" is keeping McManus in my Motherwell side, as it has for much of his time here.

Can't put much of what I think about Wednesday better than O'Neils40Yarder or Desp have above. Two wins in ten is simply not good enough and relegation form and I don't think I've seen many Motherwell sides so lacking in any creativity. I didn't know where a chance was going to come from the other night, let alone a goal. For all Ainsworth's flaws and inconsistency, we know he can make and score goals out of nothing. Especially in a side bereft of creativity since Johnson left, we should be doing more to utilise this for me. I think McGhee finishing fifth with a streamlined version of Baraclough's squad last season was a great achievement and as such think he was a good appointment. This season, I am questioning him though. From what I can see just now, his summer dealings haven't set the heather on fire. Lasley is off the pace Hammell continues to be injury prone Samson is awful and Brill has yet to be trusted with his chance, despite Samson's form Tait is poor defensively Blyth and Belic are posted missing Clay puts a shift in without adding a great degree of quality, and particularly isn't a Pearo replacement by any means Lucas, a "deep lying playmaker" can't seem to make it into the team, particularly baffling considering Wednesday was hoof ball because no one would take a pass from the centre backs I'm relatively happy with Heneghan and I think McHugh would have been a good signing, so I'll concede on those two. What I don't get though, is the utter hatred, and hatred is the right word, for McGhee amongst our supporters. In addition to that, how many people seem to take pleasure in his shortcomings and are almost willing him to fail. What did he do to deserve this? He almost took the Hearts job? McCall almost took the Sheffield United job. He left for bigger wages to a club which it pains me to concede are a bigger club than us? Who hasn't done that. I noticed someone on twitter the other night said "McGhee has ruined every club he's ever been at #fact". It only takes a quick glance at his wikipedia to see that he got three clubs promoted and left Reading and Millwall in higher divisions than they were in when he took over. That is just making up plain lies to peddle an anti-McGhee agenda. Pretty pathetic if you ask me, so many of our supporters simply need to grow up.

Agreed. If Stuart Carswell and Craig Reid, with a decent amount of experience, are playing in the Icelandic second tier, I can't see 17 year old Motherwell kids being high on the list of many European clubs.

I am undecided on that one. The merits of what you say may be true. Faddy came on Friday when it was 2-0 and we still probably fancied ourselves to get something from the game. If we were winning or getting beat by a bigger margin, I'd be all for bringing on a younger player. His goal on Friday was a splendid bit of technique which he could easily have scored at 2-0 and created a late charge for an equaliser. Also, at Partick the week before, he put his foot on the ball and worked it across to Tait to cross for the goal. That's not something that I think you'd have seen from the likes of Thomas or MacLean. So the fact he has impacted the last two goals we have scored tells you he is still contributing. If the game is a foregone conclusion, then yes, look to the future. If you are weighing up who is more likely to conjure up something to get you back in the game, then opt for McFadden. I agree with you in parts, there have been many times in recent years I feel that we've made signings for the sake of it whilst halting our own youngsters. See Esteban Casagolda/Bob McHugh, Stephen Hughes/Stuart Carswell and maybe even Omar Daley/Steven Lawless for examples of this. However, I do think your view that Lucas has no experience than our youths is incredibly short sighted. He will have been playing against a better calibre of youths and fringe players while at Swansea. Furthermore, how many of our youths could claim to have 19 under 21 caps (and two goals). For what it's worth, from what I've seen I would have liked Allan Campbell to have been closer to the team, instead of signing Lucas short term. But whatever Lucas does give us I'm sure will be a "cheap contribution" as he didn't seem to be flush with suitors and I can't imagine a short term deal was that hard to negotiate. I can't see him proportionately being on much more than the likes of Saunders, Fagan, Fitzpatrick and Forbes were when they were in the first team.

It's a conundrum I've thought about a lot. We obviously had success stories from our youth team in the early 2000s (McFadden, Pearson, Hammell, Clarkson, Quinn etc) and whilst these guys essentially became good players by playing regular first team football, you have to balance that with the fact that however eye catching that side were to watch whilst on song, they were incredibly inconsistent and finished bottom, so that shows the dangers in bringing them into the team in bulk. What I will say is that I think we fail on development of players. Sometimes I think we are incredibly short sighted in having young players filling a space on the bench, instead of out on loan getting first team football. I think Dom Thomas is one in the current squad that could go that way, although I wonder if it's even too late now as he almost looks less exciting when he comes on now, compared to when he first started. Last season he went months at a time without any significant game time and for me we really should have sent out on loan. Going a bit further back, Bob McHugh sat on our bench for years and didn't get a loan spell until he was 23. That's a failed development if you are just beginning to get your first run of games there. Stuart Carswell was another. Why we didn't loan him out in 2011/12 is beyond me. That season McCall played Jennings, Lasley, Law and Forbes ahead of him at different points, as well as signing Stephen Hughes temporarily to avoid playing him and moving Hateley into midfield and bringing another defender in, yet Carswell continued to sit on our bench. I don't think McGhee is reluctant to play youngsters if he thinks they're ready. Pitching Cadden and Hall in at the same point is something that one of our managers haven't done since Gannon. Even when he went to Aberdeen he pitched Fyvie (16) and Pawlett (18) straight into the team. I think there is some talent in our development squad just now, no doubt about it, Campbell is one in particular I think I'd like to see get a chance, but I do think we do need to get some of them some experience first. Ferguson looked terribly out his depth when he was played in the 2014/15 season, but he impressed me in the youth cup final and looked more mature than Ben Hall did that night. That is still development level, but I wonder how much his three loan spells played in that. It would be interesting to see how he'd cope getting a chance in the first team now. Even when you look at Dylan Mackin, he seems to be prolific for our development squad, but only managed 2 in 15 on loan at Airdrie last season, in our third tier.

I wonder if he'll end up being the Semih Aydilek of McGhee's second spell.

As much as at the time, most people would have said Watt and Thomas were the best prospects in our under 20s and would have been happy that we'd unusually tied them down to long term deals, it is perhaps a bit surprising that Cadden, a midfielder born in 1996 like Thomas and Hall, a defender born in 1997 like Watt, were in our youth system and seemed to slip by the radar for long term deals. We could end up with Watt and Thomas hanging about the fringes till their deals run out, whilst we have already lost Hall and given Cadden only has 18 months left on his deal, could lose him for buttons, or at the end of his contract as well.

Watching the highlights of that game back, I always think it was incredibly unselfish for him to square it for Coyne's first. Especially when he was a player in need of a goal so much.

Oh aye, I fully expect to see Samson in on Saturday, I just don't believe that's the way it should be. It is obviously a goal waiting to be conceded and given we have Brill on what I assume is a first team wage, you'd think we could be proactive and say Brill has earned a chance. Had it been a young lad as 2nd choice then fair enough, but when you sign a guy of Brill's experience as 2nd choice, if he doesn't get a chance when the other keeper is dropping shots every week, then when will he?

I think we really need to give Brill a chance now. I'm probably sounding like a broken record here, but for the people who say we shouldn't drop him based on the St. Johnstone game, he's made these dropping errors week in, week out. It's just that we've only been punished for it since. Still no excuse for people sarcastically cheering at the Dundee game when he caught one, don't see what you get out of that. I remain to be convinced by Tait as well. I wasn't at the game on Saturday, but following the tweets I seen in quick succession he had been booked for hauling down Gardyne and then Gardyne cut in from the left and hit the bar. He seems to be poor defensively and at times has left Alan Hutton-esque gaps in the right back area. Hopefully we're working to rectify this.

I'm a big fan of his from what I've seen so far. However, I think it will be difficult to make much, if anything from selling him due to the nature of the two year deal unfortunately. A bit of a catch twenty-too, with signing him on a longer deal maybe representing too much of a risk given the jump in level.

He scored a belter in a 5-0 win over Falkirk at Fir Park. McDonald was also amongst the goals that day and has scored in our last four 5-0 victories. Sorry if that line was a bit out of place in a former players thread.

Bang on the money. 25 in 1999/00, 16 in 2000/01 and 2001/02 and then 3 since.

He ended up in charge of the football comprehensive at Braidhurst High. When I used to work in the aquatec, he used to bring folk in frequently. That was seven years ago right enough so he may have moved on since then.

McMillan made his debut in centre midfield in our mid 90s 3-5-2 formation as well. A bit of a utility man. Scored a couple of decent free kicks as well. A shame he played his last professional game just after turning 30 due to injury. Both McCall and McGhee played Hammell right back Busta. Having a full back constantly turning inside to get on their good foot is murder, similar to watching Whittaker play left back for Scotland countless times over the past few years.

I'd love to keep Cadden for the forseeable but unfortunately we need to sell our assets. We don't have the biggest window to big him up for a sale in all honesty, He has the same length of contract as Johnson, so realistically January or the summer will be when he is at his optimum value. When he signed his new deal, as happy as I was, I thought a two year deal was a bit light. I'm in no doubt we tried to get him on three years, but his agent probably advised him not to agree to that.