star sail

Celtic were not allowed to start for the first 20 minutes. Gifting them their first goal changed the mood of the game completely. I thought we were excellent up until we scored. High tempo, high pressing, accuracy in the pass. Certainly signs of what could be this season. Their goal knocked the wind out of our sails and we never recovered. All the hard work was wiped out on their first attack and the players allowed it to get to them. I did not think the problem lay in our midfield three and infact I thought Donnelly, Campbell and Polworth were fantastic in the first half. The problem was more the lack of effectiveness of the much heralded new players. Too often there was no end product from Sedoorf, Hylton and Long leaving the midfield three too much to carry on their own. I am happy to give them time because those players faced a level of opposition today that they will rarely have faced in their careers. However, sadly it showed leaving the midfield three far too much ground to cover. Five shots on target and five goals from Celtic tells a story. They have a quality in their side that we can only dream of and to have Christie, Sinclair and Edouard coming off the bench when our players were visibly tiring makes a nonsense of any faint hope that they would suffer a midweek European hangover. Celtic should not be in the same league as us but the quirks of geography and political history means that they are a huge fish in a tiny pond and today it showed. Gillespie has been excellent for us so those calling for him to be replaced after one poor performance is nonsense. Certainly enough to give us hope and Hearts will be a far more reliable test of the true position of our squad at this moment in time. Finally, I think Gallacher looks a real find. He was unlucky today with the free kick and the yellow card was a nonsense but sadly I think that affected him because up until then he looked in complete control.

Gillespie will be delighted with your support and backing.

I'm no Sherlock Holmes but 'absolute pelters' from the stand would have been the cause of the nervousness I think. Why do football fans never learn that giving your own team pelters never works.

Celtic had a poor (by their standards) end to last season and have not strengthened significantly over the summer. They have not been properly tested so far this season and I think the St Johnstone result says more about where SJ are at this moment in time than it does about Celtics form. Having said that it shows what Celtic can do if a team is off the pace. I'm not sure that the European game has any real impact, it certainly hasn't in the past. The players are very fit these days and don't tend to suffer Euro hangovers. Sadly, I think Celtic will be too strong but we can still make life difficult for them and you never know what can happen if we are still in it beyond the hour mark. I would like to see how Lennon's Celtic would react under a bit of pressure. I fear a narrow defeat but I don't think we will suffer the same fate as St Johnstone. Hard to see where the goals are going to come from so I am going for a hard fought 1-0 defeat. However as always I hold out that little bit of hope that we could be in for a surprise. I used to hate when our managers (McGhee and McCall were terrible for it) displayed such a defeatist attitude against the OF but I have wasted too much energy on blind optimism over the years to continue making that mistake.

LOL. It must be difficult being a supporter when your team give you no joy, no hope, no sense of pride, no entertainment...…… Basically no pleasure whatsoever. First game of the proper season so whilst we can't define it as pre-season, the first day often throws up unusual results and rusty performances. Add the pitch into this equation and this game was always likely to be a bit of a lottery. I have mixed views about the result yesterday and can see the arguments on both sides. I think it is naive to think that the pitch did not affect the performance but at the same time it can not be the only reason for a mediocre performance yesterday. The strong league cup performances have now been put well and truly into context. A Premier league side were always going to show up more of the cracks in our newly formed squad so it is only natural that the early optimism has been tempered somewhat. The biggest concern for me is, as Ya Bezzer! pointed out, that their midfield looks stronger than ours. Livingston are my tip for the drop this season so that they appear to have a stronger midfield would be a concern. I wonder how much the uncertainty regarding Turnbull's future has upset the planning in that particular area of the pitch. Let's hope that Sloth provides a bit of strength in that area when he gains full fitness. I remember a similar situation last year with Gorrin, who did not feature early season but became a mainstay of the team as the season progressed. No hiding place unfortunately with Celtic and Hearts coming to Firpark over the next few weeks. I don't think we are going to get a true sense of the merits of this squad until September. A draw away from home in the first game of the season is no bad thing. Livingston was a touch place to go last season so it's a decent result even if the performance has left us with more questions than answers.

In my original post, I was distinguishing between the City clubs and the rest. Apoligies if that was not clear. Getting in amongst the top 5 seems to me like a big step forward. 6th place is really best of the rest. Turnbull would provide the extra quality to help us break that ceiling, hence my prediction. Only one place in terms of league position but a significant one. Hope that clears it up Londonwell.

For me, the season ahead is going to be defined by the fortunes of David Turnbull. If he returns fully fit and showing the form of last season and if we can then keep him for the season, I think we have the makings of a strong top 6 side. It will always be very difficult to displace the city clubs so 6th place would be a big step forward. However, if Turnbull is fit and playing I think we have the squad to break into the top 5. So my prediction: with Turnbull 5th (splitting the Edinburgh teams), without 6th My other prediction is that we will lose our manager. He must be starting to show on the radar of clubs down South. If we have a strong start to the season and are top 6 by Christmas, I think he will become hot property. So a top six finish with a new manager by the end of the season.

Why? Admittedly, this seems to be the way it is with modern football where nobody at boardroom level takes any responsibility leaving managers isolated, one or two games away from the sack should it all go wrong (Old Firm mentality). Thankfully at Motherwell they seem to do things differently. I have said a number of times before that I identify with MFC as a club because they look out for their own. Going back to the days of John Chapman, Bill Dickie etc there seemed to be a simple honesty and integrity in the way in which the club was run. That tradition continues and Alan Burrows and the wider board at Motherwell seem to foster mutual respect and trust. I believe fully that were Robinson managing a different team, he would have been sacked at Christmas (as some on these boards wanted), but the people in power at Motherwell looked at the bigger picture, backed their man and look what happened. Why should the board wait? They have the facts in front of them. They have presumably signed off on the new players. They know what they have to work with so collectively they are standing by the decisions they have made and backing their man. It is hugely refreshing and for me what makes out club slightly different. I am delighted with this news. Robinson seems to be a very hard working, professional young manager who has a bright future ahead. That he is assisted by one of our on in Keith Lasley makes the fit all the better. It has not all been plain sailing but I think the fact that Robinson was able to bring the team out of a slight tail spin in December should commend him to us all the more.

This in a nutshell is why Scottish football is miles behind the rest of Europe. An acceptance of mediocrity. Maybe you were joking with your comment? Professional football players should not drink. Rebelling against a manager because he has to tell you not to have a drink would be embarrassing for our senior players if this were true. There was clearly a tension between the senior players and Gannon from the outset. I am not going to pretend to know the truth as to why but I heard enough at the time to know that Gannon was not impressed by their professionalism (whether this was justified or not, I have no idea). This may have been mentioned above but I realised today that Gannon has secured promotion for Stockport County into the National league after two or three years of steady progression in the National League North. The man cannot be that much of a mug!!!

I agree regarding Brown and Knox but to assume that anybody could have signed players to keep us up is for me a blatant refusal to give the man any credit. Look at the money McLeish wasted in the transfer market as Motherwell manager. Would you have trusted him with the rebuild?

That was a very interesting time to be a Well fan. I don’t think we should forget the mess McGhee left behind. The squad had been neglected with McGhee looking elsewhere for some time before he actually left. I still maintain that Gannon ensured our SPL status the following season thanks to his signings alone. We also have to remember that European football was secured the following season thanks to his fair play philosophy. I sometimes wonder, if Jim O Brien had scored that penalty against Rangers could it all have been different. I fear sadly not. There was the potential for a very good manager in there but either he did not want it to work or he simply did not have the tools at the time to make it work. His contribution was greater than many are prepared to acknowledge but I think the same can be said of all the non Scottish managers of the last decade (Baraclough and Robinson being the others). We would not be an SPL team at this time we’re it not for interventions from these men at critical times. Sadly you will get little acknowledgement of that amongst many of the fans at FP.

Surely that would give us an unfair advantage. There must be laws against that, intellectual doping or something? We would be winning everything in sight, League, Scottish Cup, Champions League probably even the World Cup as well.

I love this 'usual suspects' chat. It always makes me think of the ant hill mob lurking away is some dark corner of the steelmen online site waiting to attack us with negative vibes. Last night they were being blamed for a negative reaction to the Crusaders friendly (when actually nobody was saying very much) and today for not giving the club due credit (when actually the comments have been very positive). I bet they will be along in a minute though to spread their vile. Darn those usual suspects!!!

Crisis?!

Once again I am staggered by the negativity (I should not be. I have been reading this forum long enough). The reality is that we have smashed our record transfer fee out the park on a player that is only 19 years old. Why has this happened? Did we just happen to strike it lucky with Turnbull, a Motherwell fan and local lad. To a very small degree, yes because he undoubtedly has natural ability but Turnbull is a product of decisions made some years ago now by the Board and Alan Burrows to invest in youth development. He has been nurtured through a system that allows good young talent to fulfil their potential. This is something we should be congratulating the club on. My opinion is that we are ahead of most, if not all, clubs in Scotland in this regard. Stephen Craigan must take a lot of credit too. This is something we should be celebrating, not criticising. Regarding the player himself, the money involved in his move to Celtic will be life changing. He is 19 years old with huge decisions to make about his future. Let's cut him some slack and just enjoy watching him develop, knowing that he is a Motherwell produced Motherwell fan, who has come good. The hypocrites on here who would no doubt sell their Grannies for a lot less, get the chance to take the theoretical moral high ground because they have not been successful enough to be making these decisions for themselves. I think you have to have walked in Turnbull's shoes before you can start spouting forth about his decision making. Like all Motherwell fans, I will be walking out of Firpark gutted if he is scoring for fun against us next season, but that's football. Let's enjoy the benefits that the transfer money will bring, be appreciative of Motherwell's forward thinking as we enjoy watching the young players break into the first team and take some pride in watching David Turnbulls career take off if he genuinely does have the potential we all think he has.

I have not been on the forums for some months because I got tired of the negativity of some regarding the club and the manager. I was enticed back on this morning though because I was interested to hear the thoughts on Turnbull's possible departure. No matter what happens , I think it is important to take note of the position we are in just now regarding our young players. Turnbull will leave (now or in the future) for a club record fee. He could be part of the future of the Scottish midfield for years to come. Hastie went to Rangers having been one of the most dynamic players in the league this season. He would have commanded a significiant fee had he not been out of contract and I would not be surprised if he too featured in the future as part of what will hopefully be a Scotland renaissance under Steve Clark. Campbell and Cadden are already part of the Scotland set up. Admittedly both players have reached a bit of a ceiling at the moment but they are still young with bright futures ahead. To have four players of that standard coming directly from Motherwell's youth set up is fantastic and something we should be proud of. There will be few (if any) clubs in Britain with resources similar to ours that can boast of that kind of success with it's youth system. I have no idea about Turnbull's true monitory value but what I would like to see in any deal is that he is loaned back to us for one more season. That would be worth a £1 million on it's own for me because we just might be looking at Motherwell's greatest ever export (at lesast as good as O' Donnell, McFayden, McAllister) and the pleasure of having him play at Firpark for one more season would be priceless.

I have been a member on these boards since 2009. Over time you get to know the posters. They remain anonymous but their forum names become well known to the people who read the forum regularly. I have absolutely no problem with differences of opinion. It is the differences of opinion that make these boards successful. The post above resonates with me for two reasons, one because Kmcaplin (whoever you are) is a great example for me of a familiar name on these boards, who's opinion I sometimes disagree with but always respect because the opinions are always reasonable, fair and rational. He (I am assuming he because of my narrow minded, last century view of the footballing world) never that I can recall, attacks players or managers personally and seems to have a sensible view of Motherwell's natural position in the footballing food chain. A poster above said 'Criticism is part and parcel of a football managers job'. Sadly, this is true, but sometimes that is an excuse to allow faceless people on football forums to hurl all sorts of abuse at managers, when quite possibly these same people are not reaching the elite heights of excellence and performance in their own lives. We put an expectation on football managers at times that goes beyond what is reasonable. Secondly this post resonates with me because by admitting that possible she (in the interests of balance and with the pretense of having an enlightened view of the modern world) got it wrong, Kmcalpin displays the same attributes that Stevie Robinson has shown in turning our season round. The ability to see that mistakes were made and change it is a sign of a very good manager. My feeling is that in Stevie Robinson we may actually have won a watch. Time will tell. This is a very long winded way of saying that the post above is a great post!!!

I think that this should be a real source of pride for the club. The culture in football now is to sack managers at the first hint of trouble. In Scotland, the clamber to sack managers was the domain of Old Firm fans who believed that a victory every Saturday was a God given right. Sadly it is an attitude that has filtered into all clubs at all levels of the game including our own. Fortunately in this case, Alan Burrows and the board were able to look deeper than the poor on field performances at a man who is working his socks off to improve all levels of the club from recruitment, to training, to coaching structures to youth development etc. A young, driven professional manager who, whilst still learning the ropes has acted throughout with the best interests of the club at heart. Some of the comments on these boards in recent months have made for difficult reading. Personal attacks on Robinson and Burrows, and a complete disregard for the hours of work that they put into the club. It would be nice to think that a few lessons have been learnt now that the fortunes have turned around. We should be seen as a club who supports our managers, our players and particulary our young players. The board has led the way, the fans need to do the same. I am delighted for the manager, the players and for Burrows. That the goals in recent weeks have been home grown has made it all the sweeter.

Lambert was a great player and along with Tommy Coyne is probably my favorite Motherwell player of all time. If DavidTurnbull can get close to that standard we have some player on our hands. Did Lambert not score a couple of 20 yard belters at Ibrox in his time with us? I'm sure he scored one, maybe two. My memory is not what it was.

Despite the difference of opinion, I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

I was not reacting with outrage, mock or otherwise. I absorbed your point. Craig Brown was a good manager for us. I have spent years on here defending honest professionals doing the best job they can against guys like yourself that call them chancers, car salesmen etc. They may not be the best managers in the world but they all contributed to keeping motherwell in the top division. Some of the hem including Robinson work very hard to do so. I think they deserve to have somebody defend them. Seems strange to me that Baraclough is a chancer with a 34% win record, yet Browns 34% win record at Aberdeen with more resources automatically puts him in the experienced coach who can organise a team catagory. I will reiterate again, I have nothing against Craig Brown, just the prejudice that makes one man be treated harsher than another.

Interesting to read some of the Craig Brown comments. Sometimes I think that many fans buy into a Scottish good, non Scottish bad mentality. Interesting that the three managers you mention are non- Scottish. What about Malpas (26% win), McLeish (28% win), Davies (31% win)? Does enthusiasm and positivity make you a chancer? If it does Maurice Malpas was certainly no chancer!!! Here is a couple of facts regarding the names you mention. Jim Gannon left the club in late December 2009 when we were 6th in the league. We finished that season 5th under Brown. Gannon had to perform one of the biggest rebuilding jobs in the club recent history after one of the other 'old Scottish fitba favourites' Mark McGhee left us in a shambolic state. Baraclough's win record at Motherwell was 34%. Craig Browns win record at Aberdeen was 33%. I am not trying to argue that Craig Brown was a poor manager, far from it, he was the right man at the right time for our club. It's just that the records of our foreign chancers are not as poor as some would have us believe. My point is that all the managers mentioned contributed in their own way. Gannon rebuilt a depleted squad, Baraclough saved us from relegation as did Robinson when he came in. It seems to me that there are some sections of our support that give managers a tougher critique when they are not Scottish.

Great result with a much depleted squad. Dundee and St Mirren lose and we beat our local rivals to go seven points clear. Could we look back on this day when the dust settles on the season as the day we secured our top division status for another season. Too early to know but a huge step in the right direction. COYW!

No idea what will happen today. Have been waiting for an out of the blue good performance for weeks to kick start our season. Thought the Aberdeen result might have been it but we have gone backwards since then. Tatically Robinson has been found wanting in recent weeks and he is coming up against possibly the best tactician in the league. I still believe that we have the players to get a result but they are not showing it at the moment. As others have said, I would like to see the players in their natural positions, with McHugh playing as a central defender. Play a pressing game with high energy and who knows. We have proved that we can compete with any team in the league when on form. Need to show it today. Anything less and Killie will be taking the points.

People have very short memories of Motherwell teams of the past. Anybody thinking Saturdays performance was the worst Motherwell performance ever , has not been a Motherwell fan for long. I have watched many very poor Motherwell displays under pretty much every manager we have ever had. Since McLean's time, McLeish, Kampman, Davis, Butcher, Malpas, Gannon, McGhee, Brown, McCall, Baraclough, (who have I missed), I have watched some turgid dross. Some of the players these managers have signed have been as poor as any we have now (the two Irish boys Keegan and who was the other one, McLeish bringing in Andy Roddie and my personal favourite Estaban Casagolda). The list goes on. We have had our moments under some of these managers too. McLeish's first six months, McGhee's first season, the second place under Stuart McCall being amongst the highlights. However the succcess was temporary with all these managers. McLeish managed to spoil one of the best Motherwell teams in my lifetime. McGhee's second season was painful to watch and McCall benefited from being manager at a time when the standard of the SPL was at an all time low. His teams blew up after 75 minutes because they were not fit enough. Could you imagine Robinson committing that crime? However if you really want to remember the dark days, thing back to the Malpas era. If ever there was a man that was able to suck the life out of a club, Malpas was that man. Weeyin did a very good analysis of McLean's time a few months back. His time at the club was far from rosy and it was only latterly, after he had been given the time to build it, that the Cup winning team came into being. I remember being up at Dalziel Park many years ago and I happened to catch a Billy Davis training session. It was embarrassingly poor. The players could hardly do 5 press ups between them and most of the session was spent lying on the ground pretending to stretch. Watch a Stephen Robinson training session by comparison. There is no comparison. The level of athleticism and professionalism is night and day. I find the clamber to sack managers at the best of times distasteful but at Christmas time in particular it is worth while remembering that we are talking about an honest professionals livelihood. Robinson has a very difficult job as ever Motherwell manager before him has proved. We have no God given right to beat the likes of St Mirren, Accies, Dundee etc. People wanting to take on that attitude would be better served following the Old Firm. I wish Stevie Robinson all the best and hope that things fall into place soon. Merry Christmas.