star sail

Felt sorry for the players having to run out to a half empty home end today. This team have given everything in the cup, it is a shame that the fans did not match that commitment today. I would have gone with the weather argument were it not for the fact that the away end was sold out.Think the Hearts fans outnumbered us 2:1 today which for a home tie in a Scottish Cup Quarter Final is indeed baffling. Everybody is entitled to make a decision about whether or not they want to go to a football match. It would have been nice to see our players have better backing all the same. Enough of the negatives. What an effort from the players and what a goal to win it. Felt after 15 minutes of the second half that Hearts were going to go on and win it but the team showed real character to battle their way back into the game. McHugh and Campbell in the middle typified the commitment and McHugh deserved his goal.

Prior to the league cup final in November, Tommy Coyne, along with his two sons, were eating in the same restaurant as us. I assumed they were going to the game. Started a conversation at our table about who he would be supporting. I would like to thing that he is a Well fan but I think that may be wishful thinking. Heart said Motherwell, head Celtic. Felt it would be inappropriate to ask him. Does anybody know?

I am never one to let the facts stand in the way of a few wild allegations but thought I better check and see if I was making this up completely. So here are the facts: Starting with a home draw against St Johnstone on 23/9/15, Rangers were drawn at home ten times in a row (including a home win against us on 21/1/17). The run ended when Rangers were drawn away to Partick Thistle in the league cup on 09/09/17. Since then as Superward pointed out, they have drawn Fraserburgh (A), AyrUtd (A), Falkirk (H) in the Scottish Cup. That makes 11 home ties out of 14. So not the 13 out of 15 I claimed and certainly not enough to base a conspiracy theory on but they have had the luck of the draw over the last few seasons when it comes to home ties. I get a sense that I am talking to myself but incase anybody is interested 7 of the 14 were against Premiership opposition (St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Dundee, Motherwell, Accies, Dundee). This does not include any cup ties played at Hampden (one of which featured a beautiful Louis Moult brace). I realise that I have just spent an hour of my life thinking about all things Rangers. I will never make that mistake again.

I could be wrong but I seem to remember reading that they drew 12 home ties in a row. Add your three in four to that would make it 13 out of 16. If they managed to swing a cup semi final to Ibrox then I really would be believing in conspiracy theories. Anyway regarding Motherwell, we have drawn the tie of the round. Could FP be near capacity?

Russian involvement in the draw?

I am pulling figures off the top of my head but is that not something like 13 of Rangers last 15 cup draws being drawn at home? They certainly have the luck of the draw.

Agree 100% with what you say but unfortunately this requires some thought. As the Glasgow press well know, the headline is often all you need to sway the Old Firm readership, No coincidence that the people that this headline will appeal to is Rangers fans (Motherwell is a dirty team) and Celtic fans (Scott Brown is innocent), Why should they want to read on? The facts might get in the way of their firmly held prejudices.

If it's not bad enough that he should have been be seen in the past walking about with a laptop, he is now seen with a snow shovel in his hand. Disgrace. It brings the game into disrepute. What would BR say? Confident about today. Comfortable victory to make up for the league game. 3-0 Well, the new boys making a big impact.

A real shame to see this thread make it's appearance so quickly. We have to think back one whole calender month (yes one month ago), to a time when we were in a cup final and our manager was being mentioned for the Northern Ireland job. To be fair it was just as ridiculous then, that he should be being considered for that job as it is now that there is talk of sacking him. Dundee Utd suffered a very similar fate to ours just a few seasons ago.I don't remember the exact details, but after a very bright start to the season involving a strong cup run, they played Celtic on (I think) three consecutive occasions, losing all three. They then lost Armstrong and Mackay-Steven to Celtic and did not recover.The end result was that Macnamara lost his job and United were ulimately relegated. My feeling is that the team were burnt out after the trio of Celtic matches.The controversy surrounding the games did not help. To lose Moult and Cadden to injury (our two most influential player in my opinion) has only compounded the problem. I don't think we can underestimate the effort that went into those games. Interestingly, Celtic have struggled (by their standards) since then too. The winter break has come a few weeks too late I feel but it is now here. Let the players recover and let the manager freshen the squad then see where we go from there. If we look at the year as a whole Robinson has done very well. He saved us from relegation and got us to a cup final. As it stands at this moment we are still only a few points off the top six. He deserves a chance.

I can see the Monday morning headlines ' Chief Executive uses laptop shocker!!!!!' Tough week for the team and the club and it is really disappointing that after all their hard work it ends in a 5-1 defeat. It was just one bridge too far. I have a Celtic supporting friend at work who said he was really impressed by the fitness levels of the Motherwell side. He watches Celtic every week and said that the big difference with Rodgers Celtic team is their fitness levels. On that level alone Motherwell matched them, which few teams can now do. The difference is that it is far harder to chase the game no matter how fit you are. To run out of steam after 270 minutes of punishing football is no embarrassment. I want Celtic to win on Tuesday for no other reason than, if we are going to have to suffer the negative effects of a team with much bigger resources than ourselves then we may as well reap the benefits regarding money coming into the Scottish game and coefficients etc. Brendan Rodgers has let himself down a bit this week with his comments but he is a good manager who has assembled a very good side. Having talented managers and talented players in our league can only be a good thing. Owen Coyle and Steve Clarke will hopefully prove welcome additions and I believe that in our own man Stephen Robinson we have unearthed a really good manager who has really come into his own over the last week. So far this season we have had a cup final, we are sitting high in the league matching teams like Rangers, Aberdeen and Hibs. It's all good. Next week at Hearts will tell us more about our team and their resilience than yesterday ever will.

If Scott Brown feels the need to be moaning about fixture congestion, over-celebrating goals and Moult diving for a free kick 25 yards out he must be feeling the heat. Maybe the old legs are feeling the strain. Celtic know they have been in two competitive games. Including the PSG game they have had 3 very touch games in a week. If the Motherwell players feel tired, Celtic will feel at least as tired if not more so. I think Celtic are rattled. Young Alan Campbell relishing the prospect of another game tomorrow can only help. If Motherwell can put in the same intensity of performance again tomorrow, Celtic will not relish the prospect one bit. If Motherwell can put in the same intensity of performance again, it would underline the massive steps they have taken forward in terms of fitness. Celtic are still favourites for tomorrow but the cloak of invinciblity is definitely slipping. If we could leave Celtic Park tomorrow with a draw it would be a massive, massive achievement. I'm going for 0-0.

Complete the sequence: loss, draw,......... Have seen nothing to suggest that we cant win on Saturday. Celtic know that they have been in two very competitive games and will not relish a third before their champions league game next week. I felt we had a real chance before the game tonight and I feel the same for Saturday. This group of players and this management team deserve our support. Lets rise above the tedious west of Scotland stain and get the victory this time. COYW.

Had a day to think over the talking points of the game and have tried to look at it as impartially as possible: Firstly the Kipre tackle. Thought it was a great tackle at the time and when you watch it at full speed on the TV it still looks like a great tackle but when you see it in slow motion it was a dangerous tackle and a red card challenge, however given that Thomson does not have the luxury of a slow motion replay, his real time decision was the right one. Dembele's was a red card for me. It was intentional, dangerous and there was intent to harm. It looked that way at the time and it looked that way on replay. As for the two penalty claims, if one is a penalty, the other is a penalty. The only difference is that the Tierney challenge happens at higher speed and off the ball. . Unfortunately Kipre gave the referee a decision to make,That it should have also been a red card seems inexplicable to me. Even if the last man rule still held, (which it does not)it was not a clear goal scoring opportunity. Sinclair was moving away from the goal and Motherwell had two men standing in front of the goalkeeper who were within distance of intercepting the ball. Anywhere else on the park and that challenge would have been a yellow card at the very most. Having said all of that Celtic were the better team. A moment of quality from Forrest and a world class safe from Gordon the difference between the teams. Small margins. I feared the triple header a little before yesterday but actually I now feel quietly confident for Wednesday night. If we can just have more composure on the ball on Wednesday night I believe we can hurt them. No motivation needed and the intimacy of Firpark to help us. I am quietly confident for Wednesday night.

The more I look at these decisions over the years, the more I am convinced that the single biggest factor in a referee's decision is the reaction of the players, benches and fans. Scott McDonald's sending off against Rangers last season is a perfect example of this. Had it not been Rangers and had it not been right in front of the dugouts, McDonald would not have been sent off. The Rangers impact is not because there is some conspiracy but simply because 6000 fans can make more noise than 2000. Managers and players rushing towards a referee is always going to have an impact no matter how much we wish it did not. For as long as we rely upon human beings, with all the frailty's they bring, to make split second decisions when their senses are being bombarded with the sound and sights of a pressurised atmosphere, we can expect these decisions to continue. Rangers and Celtic will always have an advantage in this respect because they can shout loudest and can bring more pressure to bear on the sub-conscience of referee's through the use of media and intimidation. No conspiracy, just human nature. For me, the frailty's of referee's (and for that matter players) is something to be celebrated because it makes our game what it is.

Agree with this entirely. Sadly however given that much of the game is won and lost in the head, Rangers do have an advantage in that respect. Our games against them last season is proof of this (the McManus mistake being the perfect example). I hope that Robinson can convince the players that Rangers are a very ordinary side but experience says that it is easier said than done.

They say that the sign of a good striker is to get into the correct positions. He did that on several occasions last night. If his first goal brings with it a little confidence then he may kick on to great things this season. Somebody mentioned Porter and Higdon. Anything close to that would be fantastic.

Robinson said himself in the press conference that any player that came in should be more than capable given that they are all professional players. I'm sure he will feel disappointed that they did not have more of a command on the game. These are both really poor results for both Hearts and Accies. It always baffles me that the gap between professional and amateur is sometimes smaller than the gap between two professional teams. Ian Cathro will be under a fair amount of pressure even if it is very early in the season. Edit: sorry semi-professional not amateur!!!

Semi-pro is more that good enough for me. Thanks for the reply.

This is always a statement I find very interesting. As a layman, I have been guilty over the years at looking at poor performances and poor results in very simple terms. I would be prone to making a comment very similar to the one made by Well Well above when having watched an apparent lacklustre first half resulting in a 1-1 draw and an energetic second half resulting in a 4-0 win, he puts it down simply to a lack of commitment and effort in the first half. People that know more about the game will point out that this view is far too simplistic and that there are many more forces at play. For those that do have a better understanding, I have a couple of questions that would help me understand the reasons for a particular performance at this time of year: 1) Given that it was a team of new players still in the process of pre season training throughout the full 90 minutes, what did make the difference yesterday between the first half and second half, if not just simply effort and application? 2) My background is in athletics. As a rule of thumb, an athlete that has had a lay off due to rest, illness or injury for three weeks should expect to train for the same length of time (i.e 3 weeks) before returning to pre lay off fitness and performance levels. What is the rule of thumb for professional football players? 3) Mothewell have been guilty in the past of what would appear to be lacklustre performances during the competitive season. I have seen poor performances (at some point)in almost every month of the calander year. How can we be confident that a poor performance in the first half yesterday was simply down to that fact that it is pre-season and mid July? 4) Other European teams seem to be able to handle the constraints of pre-season better than Scottish teams and hence can progress in European competition when Scottish teams struggle to do so. I know that some, but far from all start there competitive season earlier than we do. How can these teams get up and running quicker than Scottish teams?

I don't think Gateshead can be accused of not caring about the score. They won the game. It would be a concern if Motherwell did not care about the score. Your second point is a very good one because it changes the starting conditions of the game. If Motherwell were purposefully fatigued and Gateshead were fresh (assuming this was indeed the case) then that is a genuine reason as to why Motherwell might lose the game. The six points that Weeyin made do not come into this category because Gateshead are also going through a pre-season programme that presents them with the very same six problems. Hence my suggestion that they could be seen as excuses if they were to be used by Motherwell as reasons for defeat. No one is disputing the principles behind a pre-season training programme. I concede that I have lost this argument. I only hope that I have at least been able to explain the point that I was trying to make.

You have managed to say in a couple of lines what it took me several lines to say. The fact that it was a friendly for both teams negates Weeyin's argument for me.Given the likes for his post however it would seem that many think that his points are still valid. That's the beauty of having an opinion and having the freedom to express it on a forum. It would have been nice had the tone been a little less condescending but that's life.

I don't think it is unreasonable for one very obvious reason, The six reasons (it could be argued, excuses) you gave apply equally to Gatehead. The game started on a level playing field and Gateshead came out on top. It is not just Scottish teams that go through a pre-season. Oh and there is no need to be condescending. I am fully aware of all six of the reasons why a Motherwell side at this stage of the season should not be firing on all cylinders. The very same six reasons why a Gateshead side should not be firing on all cylinders either and can still beat a Motherwell team.

I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to have some concerns about a defeat to Gateshead given the backdrop of the lack of confidence in Scottish football at the moment. Had our contemporary's produced fine European victories over the last week or two and Scottish football was riding on the crest of a wave then yes, a defeat to Gateshead could be greeted with a shrug of the shoulders. The fact is however that the second biggest team in our league has just been put out of Europe by Luxembourg minnows and St Johnstone ( a team that has consistently outperformed us over the last few seasons) has also gone out of the competition at the first round, Scottish football is going through a crisis of confidence more than ever before. A defeat to a team like Gateshead does raise a few questions. Is the quality of player within the Motherwell squad any better than than the players in a team that play in the Vanarama National League? It is very easy to say that results at this stage of the season are of no importance and that performances are of no importance and maybe they are not, but it is not unreasonable for supporters on a football forum to raise a few concerns, particularly after a season when Motherwell struggled to stay in a league that is proving to be one of the poorest in Europe. I think what irk's me is the acceptance of mediocrity in this country from managers, players and fans alike. Football managers up and down Scotland are giving interviews like Robinson's on Saturday, explaining the latest defeat because it's only pre-season or it's too early in the season or it's too late in the season or the players are exhausted...............etc,etc. My favourite was a few seasons ago when Craig Brown was the manager. He gave as the primary reason why Motherwell were out of European football as a lack of match fitness(where have we heard this before). He then gave as the reason for a lacklustre defeat in September as the players being exhausted due to an early start to the season because of the teams involvement in European football. By his reasoning there must have been a small window of opportunity in late August where conditions were right to put in a performance. Maybe on the other hand he was just talking shite. The point I am making is that a team like Motherwell have to earn the right to be able to shrug of a defeat to a team like Gateshead. I don't think that this team are anywhere near earning that right, so it is not unreasonable for supporters to question the result or the performances. One of the football managers mantra's is that confidence is king. If this is true the results in pre season games matter.

I don't think we can come to any conclusions regarding the position of other teams. In the play-off season we thumped St Mirren at Fir Park when St Mirren still had a chance to stay up and they then beat us a matter of a few weeks later when they were already relegated and the game was hugely important for us. If we are to believe that pressure is often the cause of some of the poor football and decision making that we witness then Killie should be on form tomorrow night.

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but it is possible that we can be safe on Tuesday even if Accies win. It would need us to win and Dundee to lose . Given that they play each other in the last game any result would work for us. I know that somebody mentioned that we can no longer have a scenario where both Dundee and Accies need only a draw in the last game. It shows how big a result that was yesterday. One question for the statos. Have Motherwell had back to back victories this season? I cannot think of any. Edit: Just realised the post above makes this very point.