star sail

The argument over 10/12/14/16/18 teams should not be the focus here. We don't want a 10 team league because watching Motherwell v St Mirren 4 times (possibly 6) is a less than appealing prospect. It would be much more appealing however if Motherwell v St Mirren was actually a decent game of football with a healthy crowd and something to play for. The argument for a 16 team league is that we would only need to watch the shite that is Motherwell v St Mirren twice. Then we could watch the shite that is Motherwell v (Accies, Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk etc). There would be variety in the shite that we watch. For me this is not a good argument for a 16 team league. Make Motherwell v St Mirren appealing first then the rest falls into place. For me there are three things that could do that 1st (and by a million miles the most important) Create a league that is competitive. The only wy of doing that is to spread the money that is coming into the game much more evenly so that the Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen's and maybe on the odd occasion Motherwell's of the league can challenge the OF again. 2nd Reduce gate prices. An even distribution of wealth will help bring that about. 3rd A winter break. The sooner we start looking at the SPL as being a marketable product rather than the OF being the marketable product the sooner we get out of this mess. We are being blinded by thi 10 team debate. The problem lies elsewhere.

it's a simple equation. Money in = Money Out. With 3000-4000 home fans a week there is no money coming in. We no longer have the home support of a sustainable SPL club. The reasons for that is a long and varied list but Motherwell is on a downward spiral that is only going to get worse. The frightening thing is that this is after 3-4 reletively succesful seasons.

I am getting to the point now where I think that the best idea is for Motherwell never to pay out money on another transfer or expensive loan deal again. After all it is a market we are less than competitive in as Aberdeen and some Blue Square mob have shown this week. I tend to hark on about Gannons philosophy but right there was the future for a club like ours. Yes Gannon was not the man to see it through but Well should be known as a team that brings on young talanted players (the Mark Reynolds of this world). Anybody who plays for the first team should come through the youth system and the money that is generated produces the best youth system in the country. It may be that Motherwell are going that way already. If this philosophy takes us to the First Division so be it. I would rather watch Motherwell produced players fighting for a First Division title than watch journeymen pro's and 6 month loan deal money grabbers (Nick Blackmen, Alan Gow and a list as long as your arm of leitchs out to make a quick name for themselves) slog it out in the shite that is the SPL every week. To the original poster, I understand your desperation to improve things but I think it is time we stop throwing good money after bad.

I was less than impressed when McColl was appointed and I am still skeptical about how it may pan out in the long run but he has not put a foot wrong so far. Accies was not great but then he had a couple of days at best to get that right. Gow decision was spot on. Result and performance at Dundee was excellent and his analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the squad mirror what many on here have been saying for a while. That he has identified a left sided midfield player as priority No 1 is again an excellent sign. Top marks so far.

The next round has Motherwell v Aberdeen written all over it. Get them at FP and I would take it.

Which is what most people on here are saying. These players have gone off the boil. It's not about them being pish or disinterested. That our whole squad has gone off the ball since Brown left kind of suggests that Brown leaving has had an impact on the squad. Not rocket science.

I'm beginning to think that this whole league re-construction gig is a big smokescreen to divert attention from the fact that we STILL don't have an Assistant Manager at the club.

The solution is this: Keep it at 12 teams. The TV money gets shared equally amongst the 12 clubs (radical I know). Home teams keep 100% of their own gate money. This increases the competitiveness of the league but the OF still maintain an advantage albeit greatly reduced. The attendances of the 10 non OF clubs increase because admission fees have been reduced, clubs can bring in better players and there is now a genuine challenge to the OF. The OF benifit because they are now playing 38 competitive hard fought games of football in a season instead of 4, hence when they play in Europe they know what it's like to be in a game. The Scottish game becomes more attractive, competitive and attendances are on the up. Then in 5, 6, 7 years time when TV contracts are being re-negotiated the SPL have a better product to sell so can drive a harder bargain. Is this too niaive and simplistic?

It would be one positive but the problem runs far deeper than admission fees. If Motherwell were challenging to win the SPL (or even had a chance of challenging) I personally would pay £20/£22 every week. If I was paying £10 to watch Motherwell fight it out with QOS, Morton etc in SPL 2 I probably would not go. The problem is that Motherwell and every other team outwith the OF exist in a league that they will never win and will never be competitive in untill steps are taken to level the playing field. You have a thankless task Flow (or at least MFC) and a problem that is almost unsolvable. Martin Bain, John Reid and all those characters need to do some major long term thinking and far less navel gazing if we are to get out of this mess.

I agree with what you say but your description describes the Accies v Well game at the weekend and with a 16 team league we may see the very same shite (minus the fear part for those in mid table). 10 is definetly not the answer but 12,16,18 is not the answer either. We desperately need to start again and starting again means tackling the problem of the Old Firm monopoly. Anything else is just rearranging the furniture.

No reply from Leeann as yet and maybe she would feel that it was not appropriate to reply at the moment on a fans forum however if Leeann/Flow or anyone else from the club were to read the boards over these last few days it must surely be of major concern to them the strength of feeling against a 10 team league. I don't think I can remember a time when so many die hard fans were thinking of packing it in. To read these boards and then continue to vote for a 10 team league would seem crazy (unless empty stadiums is still financially viable). I still think that this is a problem that cannot be solved whilst the OF stay in Scotland so I do not envy the people who are in charge of trying to save Scottish Football.

The problem is that the money is not there to be greedy with. Idealistically 16 teams would be the way to go but most SPL clubs in Scotland will now be living week by week and simply will not be able to afford to go to a 16 team league. There is no doubt that the decision is based on Money but not for greed but simply for survival. The notion that a 16 team league will bring the fans back is nonsense. Motherwell v (Dundee, QOS, Dunfermline, Ross County.......) is not suddenly going to bring the crowds back to FirPark and if anything one display of the type of pish that this type of game will no doubt serve up will push the fans away even more. The only solution to the problems of the game in Scotland is to have an open SPL that could potentially be won by any of the participants in it. Notice that at the moment the top teams in the First Division are getting bigger crowds than Motherwell because there is the potential to win that division. They only way to do that is to get rid of the OF What would the attendance be at FirPark if Motherwell were playing (Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd,etc) to win the SPL. A capacity crowd is the answer or in other words a good 3-4000 more than a current Motherwell v Rangers/Celtic game. Untill the OF go the problems will never disappear and the OF will never go so the game is fucked in this country. Has been for a long time. All we can do is feed of the dregs they give us and hope to survive, 10, 12 or 16 teams in a league. It is as depressing as that.

Could not have been three harder fixtures and in December too a historically difficult month for Well.

For me it's underwhelming because: 1) His record with Bradford is very average verging on poor. This talk of % wins does not apply for me because Bradford were a big team in a lower league where as for example Sunderland with Ricky Sbragia were a comparitably smaller team in possibly the toughest league in the world. Therefore 30% wins (just for example) at Sunderland is more impressive than 30% at Bradford. 2) I have never been impressed when hearing him talk about the game as a commentator/pundit. I would be surprising if he was an ideas man. He was on that train wreck of a show, the Friday night STV football show a few weeks back and had very little to contribute. That was before there was even a hint that he would be in the running for the Well job. 3) He does not (appear to) have the charisma required of a manager (more of a Malpas than a Butcher/ McGhee/ Gannon/ Brown). Having said this given that the best Celtic can do is Lennon and it looks as if McCoist is going to be stepping into the Rangers job maybe this is a good as we could ever have hoped for. For me now the likes of Jimmy Calderwood seems like an impossible dream, and I would not believe that I would be saying that two weeks ago. The people who are being positive are the ones who have it right and it is the best way to support the new man and the club but that some are struggling to be positive is fairly natural in this instance. As you say it is all about opinions. THe last time I felt so underwhelmed with a managerial appointment was Malpas and look how that turned out. Having said that I was really positive about Kampman and that was a disaster.

If you are feeling optimistic then good on you, it's the way to be and the best way to support your team. I'm just saying that for me it is a real turn off and at a time when I have been struggling to really get into the football this is the nail in the coffin for me. I would love to be proved wrong.

I don't know about how good, bad or indifferent this appointment is or will be but personally speaking before a ball has been kicked I don't think I have ever been so dispondant as a Well fan. The true fans will give him a chance etc, etc but for me I am calling time out. Been struggling with the football for a while now with only the Euro games giving me some renewed enthusiasm. We can pretend that this is good news but this guy is at best choice no 3 and I would be surprised if he was even that. I should be able to rise above the Rangers connection but can't. This guy represents the Rangers I don't like and the Rangers culture that is stuck in the last decade. I said a few pages back that for me the great thing about Jim Gannon was that he gave us something to buy into. The 'lets get in about them lads' that I would guess this character will bring with him is not something that I am that keen on investing time, money and emotion on. To the fans who will get behind the new man and pay their money no matter what, good on you, you have more commitment and dedication than me but in true Dragon Den fashion, for now, I'm out!!

-A team that were trying to play the ball on the ground from the back forward. -The young players Forbes, Saunders, Hutchison, Murphy showing promise and in some cases having the best spells of their careers to date -some really strong signings tha has seen us through 2010 (do you remember the summer 0f 09). - A reasonably strong league position that but for a poor December would have been much stronger (pretty much exactly where we are now) - A vision of how teams like Motherwell should move forward in the future - A team riding top of the fair play league. Apart from that, you are right, not a whole lot else. How are we in a stronger position now btw?

I think that any potential manager at the game on Sunday would be running a mile. Not because of the teams performance but because of the empty seats in the home end of the ground. Unfortunately Motherwell screams of a club that is going nowhere fast, and the sooner we realise as a support that 3000 a week at home games in apaulling the sooner we will realise that that it is going to need a stunning appointment to take the club forward. McGhee realised it, Gannon realised it and Brown realised it. I would think that the most recent two candidates have also got a bit of a shock wheb they have seen the poor attendances. Lets face it we have been arguably the 3-4th best performancing team in Scotland over the last 4 seasons and look at the crowds we get. Bleak times I'm afraid.

Spot on. Incidently is it not a year ago tomorrow that Jimbo left the club. That was the big thing for me, Jim Gannon gave us something to buy into and to dream about. For the first time in a long time under Gannon I felt that we were moving forward and that the future was bright. It did not work out ultimately but I never at any time in Craig Browns reign felt that he was building something for the future. The football was never hugely inspiring either. Somebody mentioned the new man dealing with Craigan. That will be interesting. If he goes down the Craig Brown route of praising him to the hilt etc we may get another indian summer out of our Captain. If he gets dropped from the team it will be interesting this time round to see if we start to get stories of unrest in the dressing room shortly after.

I was going to have a go at you about the same thing Bop but realised the same, that nothing you have said has been incorrect as yet. I just hope that what you did say proves to be correct, whether due to chance or having your ear to the ground. On the manager front, today was the first time I thought I would take a safe pair of hands in the form of a Calderwood etc. Those players were lost at sea today. Anybody who thinks Craigan would have been the man for the managers job, his influence (or lack of ) over these last few games shows that he is (not yet anyway) management material. The Club are going to have to get this one right. With Aberdeen on the up and t Mirren showing some signs of steading their ship, this season could still go badly wrong.

Thats fantastic.

Could it not just be the case that the journo don't really give a flying santa about whats going on and their lack of effort results in a lack of info. Lets face it wee Chick Young is not going to have been busting a gut to find out over these last few days. Just does not sell papers in the same way as a cheeky wee article about Walter Smiths last fart would.

Stop it. Next you will be telling me there is no Santa.

Read back over the last four/five pages and it will fill you in or wait for the unveiling of the new man tomorrow afternoon.

Na man, fraid not. The people who know on these boards tell us it was a done deal yesterday and that we are getting an ex Preimership manager. Either that or they were talking shite.