El Grew

Alas, Melvin I fear you are correct. We certainly are now where near as strong as we were last year - losing Coke, Jutkiviec and O'Brien has devalued us.

Totall agree with you on this one Lobey. This game had 0-0 all over it from the outset with two poor teams but Celtic deserved to win in the end - they had 70% possession and more efforts at goal than us. But we could still have nicked a point but for the inability again of our two centre-backs to defend. Folk are on here foaming at the mouth about the penalty and Maloney this and Maloney that. They should get over it. It was a stonewall penalty. If it had been at our end I'd have been demanding the same outcome. What they really should be foaming at the mouth about is the part our two centre-backs played in it or rather didn't play in it. Craigan and Reynolds are among the poorest central defenders in the SPL and their performance today was just awful. Reynolds can forget all about getting a move out of FP because he's going to be here as long as Craigan's been so he'd better get use to it.

Just can't agree with that. We have enough strikers at the club. Jeez we've just loaned one out. What we need is a decent creative passing midfielder who can also support the strikers and get beyond them now and again. Our midfield at present is poor - Jennings, Lasley and Hateley are all defensive midfielders. The sum total of goals between the three of them almost amounts to the square root of f*ck all. Because we are incapable of playing the ball through the midfield we resort to two standard passes (always having to be made by defenders) one is a long hopeful punt up the middle and the other is a long hopeful punt to the wings. Our centres can't be expected to hold balls up that are whistling around and over their heads like howitzer shells and our winger's end product is very poor so both types of pass are an utter waste. Added to that our ball retention is dreadful - our players are always looking for a defence splitting pass instead of keeping the ball and working positions gradually. So far from needing strikers I think what we really need to get is one or two midfielders who can provide the strikers with decent amunition.

Just an observation but I think it is quite ironic that when we had money to spend we gave it to a rookie first year manager who squandered it on bringing in highly paid players - some has beens and some never would bes and helped send us into adinistration. Now when we have a decent sensible experienced manager we can't give him any money at all. Strange world of football and FP.

Whilst certainly in no rush to lose them, given the age of our current management team its odds on they won't be around for a long time so I wondered if we would consider going for a young go-ahead manager who already has a decent track record, albeit in a lower league but who has shown he is not of the 'old school' and who clearly has an appetite for going places. Who you ask? Derek Adams. He is clearly making his mark at Ross County and has his young team playing attractive winning football. Has his own ideas and is not out of the usual mould. Might just be what we need.

First up thanks to all at the club for their hard work and effort in taking us so close again in Europe and for behaving with courtesy, humility and dignity in the face of exactly the opposite from our Danish opponents. The guys gave it their very best shot last night and you can't ask them for any more than that but ultimately in the final analysis it just wasn't good enough. What made it hard to take last night, was that they are not a particularly good side. Sure they have a couple of handy players but they fell apart once pressure was applied in the second half and if we had been a little more clinical in our finishing then they'd be out of the competition. What we sorely lacked was composure in the finishing department however to get that in the modern football era costs more money than we have available and ultimately that was what cost us our place in the group stages. Sure folk can have a go (and I have and will continue to do so) but when you look at the fact that the guy to whom the best chances fell in the second half, had up until a few weeks ago, been plying his trade in the Blackburn reserves then you have to admit that its a really big step-up and ask to expect him to come into a Europa League play-off game and start firing in goals. We also lacked any creativity in the midfield area - somebody who can make a few telling passes into the inside right and inside left channels for Jamie Murphy to be able to really hurt defensives. I thought last night that although Jamie Murphy had a decent game, he too often had possession of the ball in areas of the field where, if you were the opposition, you'd be pleased to see him there. We have to find a way of getting him into and around the penalty box where he can cause the most fear to defenders and danger with his pace and touch. Its not use him getting ball out in the corners or 30 yards out. As I've posted before, our old failing returned last night to cost us the goal - inability to deal with crosses into the box. We have needed a big no-nonsense centre-back for a good few seasons now and yet we still haven't sorted this out. The goal was too similar to the one that Stokes scored for Hibs a couple of weeks ago for my liking. We need to address this and soon. On that track, a really pleasing aspect for me last night was the peformance of young Stephen Saunders. I thought he was immense for such a young player and I made him our best defender on the night. He is the best defensive header of a ball seen at FP for years, he's athletic and fit and is great on overlapping runs and not afraid to do so. He's coming on a ton. I think that's the way forward for us now. Bring in the young players and lets see if they have got what it takes. No harm to the rest of our back four but I personally think its time to bring Hutchison back and play him and Saunders as the centre-back pairing and bring in young Jonathan Page at right back and push Reynolds to left-back. I believe this would make a far better defensive unit. Anyway, don't get too down on the team - just look at Celtic with all the money and resources available to them - we run on a fraction of the budget of them and most other clubs in the SPL so chin up and chase top six again and maybe get back into Europe for another crack next season.

Unhappy at losing but I think on reflection Hibs probably just deserved it for their second hald display. We bossed the first half but could only muster one goal and then gave a poor equaliser away in first half stoppage time. They certainly were the better team in the second half and could have had few more but from super 'keeping from Randolph. Good teams should not lose three goals at home. Our old failing is still there - we are kamikaze under crosses - and two of the three goals came from crosses. Needs to be sorted quick because that's the bread and butter football in the SPL.

Like the strips. White shorts on the home strip would really lift it and set it off though, as it would just about be the exact same as the one we had in the middle to late '60s.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was something radical. Hibs have signed up with Puma too and there away strip is all mint green!!! Couple of Hibs supporting pals are livid about it.

By my reckoning we have played the SPL Champions 4 times this season and only lost once. We have drawn 3 times and to be quite honest we should've won 2 of them at FP. That must be the best record in the SPL this season. Ah well not a bad season maybe.

Apologies if this has been asked and answered but exactly who in the current squad will still be here for next season. I understand we are losing Ruddy, O'Brien, Jutkiewitz and perhaps Reynolds.

Only bad teams lose 10 goals in 2 games. Last night we conceded 6 at home which is criminal. When you analyse where the goals came from - 2 resulted from the right-back position and 2 from the left-back position - then serious questions must be posed to the two guys in these positions. Saunders is young and inexperienced and will learn and anyway is entitled to expect his 3 fellow defenders who are much more experienced to help him. IMO Hammell is a liability as a defender. He's great going forward but continues to repeat the same defensive positional mistakes over and over again. First and foremost full backs need to be competent at defending and anything after that is a bonus.

Season ticket holders are arguably the lifeblood of the club. Most stump-up their hard-earned well before the season begins and so the club gets the benefit of a kind of interest-free loan. Then during the season the club begins reducing pay at the gate prices to attract more people to games (i.e. Hibs last night) and this season we get short-changed by paying for 19 home league games but only getting 18. IMO the club should be considering providing some added value for season ticket holders e.g. why not give them a free programme at every home game; put vouchers in the season ticket book which get the bearer a free pie, bovril etc. at every home game. It would not cost them much to do this and it would add a bit of value to having a season ticket.

Hearts debt has now risen to £35 million - latest published. When you consider Rangers debt is £30 million and there is deep concern about that and how it is affecting them how the hell can Hearts keep going? Rangers will undoubtedly get this sorted one way or another but Hearts surely must be close to oblivion.

The defence has played well undoubtedly but a lot of credit must go to Keith Lasley and Steve Jennings for providing terrific protective cover so that you don't see very many opposition players being able to make runs through on top of our central defenders. They play like a couple of old-fashioned wing-halves and have been outstanding since Craig Brown and Archie Knox came to the club. Note to anyone under 40, wing halves was a term once used to describe defensive midfield players.

There is no doubt that the club did everything necessary to get the pitch sorted out and at cconsiderable cost. There was one glaring mistake though and that was the decision to seed the pitch instead of laying turf. Seeding grass is notoriously difficult to do even under ideal growing conditions and to believe that it would be ready to play football on by August and stand-up to the winter was optimism of the crazy variety. What you are seeing now is the result of that decision severely excarcerbated by one of the worst winters for decades and poor groundsmanship and grounds maintenance. Players are actually playing on the planting medium that was laid for seeding (a mixture of sand, loam and soil) which without grass roots to bind it just cuts up exactly the way it is doing. The sensible option was to have laid turf, which had already had its grass root system already established -evidenced by how well the two areas that were recently turfed are doing. And any talk of grass growing when the weather improves is fantasy as anyone who has seen the pitch should no as there is precious little grass to grow. The only thing the club can be faulted for was for taking advice to seed instead of laying turf and we are now paying for that.

The third generation astro-turf pitches are light years ahead of the disaster that Dunfermline had a few years ago. The one Hamilton had when they were in the 1st Division got plenty of plaudits as it was so good. Players are doing much more training on astro-turf pitches nowadays so the 'fear of the unknown' is much less than when Dunfermline had theirs. Lets be honest, we are not playing on grass pitches after November as they are all usually bereft of grass coverage by then. Astro-turf would be cheaper to maintain too as there would be no need for undersoil heating, pitch covers or diddy groundstaff. Playing in the northern hemisphere it's got to come - a number of Russian teams are now using it and are allowed to play European Champions League and Europa League games on it so clearly EUFA don't have any issues with it.

For the second week on the trot Steve Jennings. Looks a different player now he's gettiing regular games.

Echo what many others have already said. Pitch is disgraceful. Reputedly spent about £400K during close season on it too. Work was done - we all so 'Flow's pictures. However it looked as though there had been a game of horse polo played on it. It was downright dangerous with all the holes - made by foxes!!!! Its just not good enough and comparing it to other teams pitches is a completely pointless exercise. Just because other teams pitches are poor is no justification for ours being poor. IMO the problem is the ground staff who on this evidence and previous seasons just don't seem to know what they are doing. There is no grass growth during the winter months so there is no need to be applying fertiliser, feed or water ergo no need to have a heavy tractor on a sodden pitch. Not the first time this has been seen. Downright incompetence.

Interesting debate. Just as a wee aside, I'm presently reading "Motherwell Champions of Scotland 1931/32" and found it interesting to note that even when we were flying very high winning the league and generally being sh*t hot during that era, we strugged to attract fans to go along and watch the team at FP. Seemingly all our best attendances were away from FP as away fans were desperate to see us and/or see their team put one over on us. Some things never change eh?

Nail, head, hammer for me. Too many of our so-called footballers seem to believe the manager should be some sort of jolly fellow that just lets them do what they like when they like when in actual fact he's the poor b*stard that carries the can when they f*ck up by being unable to perform even the basics of their chosen so-called profession. It's just as well they never had to play for the likes of Shankly, Busby, Stein, Ferguson etc. etc. Poor wee lambs!

Strange but true. Cue music ............ Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

I've maintained from the start of the season that because of our circumstances (new manager, young players being pitched-in, lack of experience etc.) we were in a false position in the league and that others such as Aberdeen and Hearts would probablly pick-up and pass us, and they have. That is not a concern. However what is a concern, is that we are on a long losing run and we are due to play Hamilton, St Mirren, Kilmarnock and Falkirk - all in our area of the league now - and none of these will be easy to pick up wins from. And lets be clear, it is really a few wins we need to get some breathing space. As the poster who set the topic says, it is not fantastical that we could be lying 10th or worse after this. Another worrying aspect is that we are hearing nothing from the club about the managerial situation (other than short term) and we are right in the middle of the last transfer window before the end of the season and no sign of any moves related to that.

Jim Gannon stated what many on the terraces, sorry seats, in football grounds around Scotland have said for years. Refereeing standards in our top league are probably as bad as they've ever been. However, it cannot all be laid at Hugh Dallas's door. There are a number who have gone before him who allowed the refereeing situation to degenerate to its current level. He just happens to be the poor guy that's inherited the mess. He was one of the very best whistlers I've seen and I've have no doubt that behind closed doors he is fuming at what he sees. However, he can hardly come out and start sacking refereees right, left and centre - he will need to work away quietly in order to try and get standards back up again. The man has a thankless task. For, younger posters, if you think the refs you are seeing now are bad then you should have seen the chancers we used to have before the advent of cameras covering every game!! J P R Gordon anyone? Aye it still hurts!

I don't know if they are the 'dream team' but with Brown's tactical expertise and Knox's 'I take no shit' approach they will certainly ensure that the players know what's expected of them on the park and shake any lethargy out of them that may have begun to set-in.