CoF

Am I right in saying Carson and Robinson were arguing across the pitch at one point? Never a good sign if so.

Decent point however my overwhelming feeling leaving today (and most of the season) was that we are a team utterly devoid of an identity. I simply don't know what kind of football we are trying to play. We kept punting it to our front two in the first half but it was completely ineffective so we're not a long ball team. We don't pass it so we're not a passing team. We camped on the edge of our own box for most of the second 45 yet we didn't try to counter attack. We don't have pacey wingers who threaten down the wings. We don't do a high press. We don't batter people out the way (anymore) so we're not a batter people out the way team. We don't have energy or look considerably fitter than the other teams. We're not a 'you score 3, we'll score 4' team. We're not a solid defence but win 1-0 team. Can anyone explain what our strengths are and what type of team we are trying to be?

True. Although, I'd say there's usually a wee bit of creativity still on the pitch when we've went for the front 3 combo of Bowman / Main / Johnstone or Sammon. I'm fine with that. Saturday was taking the piss having all 4 on when we were needing a player to actually create something. It left us with one creative player (Cadden) who was having a nightmare. Reminded me of the desperate decisions McCall made in his last few months here.

True. I'm hoping last weeks front 4 of Sammon, Bowman, Main and Johnson wasn't the first sign of an under pressure managers descent into madness.

Campbell was an unused sub at Kilmarnock so will won't have played for 10 days - hopefully that's the break he needs. Cadden - I'd agree. While he had his best game in months against Hearts, he looked tired again against Killie.

Aye, probably. I'm usually at the tail end of calling for a managers head. The way I see the facts - apart from the first fortnight of last season (we were 11th after 2 games) we didn't drop below 8th. Since we're being selective about when we won games, in the last 17 last season we won 6, drew 6 and lost 5. Hardly a complete disaster. We finished top of the bottom 6 (see what I did there?). Add in 2 cup finals and you'll find that surpassed most folks pre-season ambitions after the disaster that was Mark McGhee part 2. We've had some poor performances this season and I was genuinely alarmed at what I saw in some of the league cup games. I think we've still got it in us to be absolutely shite with Robinson going at some point, but there's something in what we saw of Robinson last season to make me think he deserves the chance to turn it around.

Whenever I hear about 'lost the dressing room', team spirit and all that, I always think about a really interesting interview I heard from Steve Parish (Crystal Palace Chairman). The basic point was that he had rarely considered sacking a manager off the back of a poor run of results if he could see that the team was still cohesive and playing for the manager. The tipping point was always when the players stopped playing for him. With that in mind, I'm not sure whether the recent frustrations and arguments on the pitch are a good sign or a bad sign. I'd be more concerned if there was an apathetic response to losing goals, however when I see opposition teams arguing among themselves I always think it's a sign that all isn't well in that squad. I've seen some good performances this season (Rangers / Dundee / first half vs Hearts on Wednesday) where team spirit play it's part and I think Robinson will be given time to try and recapture that. You've also got to consider what sacking a manager at this stage can do to how appealing we might be to potential applicants. Robinson achieved his goals last season - keep us in the league, decent cup run and make a few quid. From the outside that's all that will matter. If he's punted 7 games into the new season we'll soon get a reputation of being a trigger happy club which will naturally reduce the quality of applicant in the future. It's a tough decision, and I get folks concerns (the stat of 35 odd games being banded about isn't good at all); however I don't think we are there yet. I doubt the club are either.

I'm not so sure about your comparison with the McCall era. We have about 24 players on or around the first team squad just now. Looking at the 2012/13 squad it's about 22. Also, I'm not sure the new signings were intended to be bench warmers. On paper, they made some sense. - I'll quote Welldaft_MK1 from another thread: "Donnelly for example - recently broke record for N Ireland under 21 caps. Danny - scoring goals for fun in Conference which is where we got Moult from. ATS - I thought he was a great player when he was last in Scotland. Sammon - 9 full caps for Republic of Ireland and scored 10 goals for a relegated team last season. " Sammon is the one player which seems to epitomise folks idea of the poor summer signings, however we may only paying a fraction of his wage given he is on loan. A couple of contract extentions might be questionable - Grimshaw off the top of my head, however I'm sure every club has those. I honestly don't think the summer signings can be judged too harshly when it is clear Robinson isn't getting the best out of the core group of players we had last season. The new signings have enough potential on paper to fir into a well performing team. The problem is they're coming into a team that isn't functioning as we know it can. In the other thread, Ya Bezzer raised some good points about why we are no longer performing (basically teams have sussed us out). I'm remaining hopeful that it's not the case however got to admit, yesterday didn't fill me with confidence.

Absolutely - I thought multiple players reaction to Bigi on Wednesday (Carson, McHugh, Bowman, Cadden if I remember correctly); while understandable, was awful and wouldn't have happened last season. In Carsons defence, he did then put an arm round him. Despite that, he went for Bigi again today after their second. Your point about him not contributing offensively is spot-on, however I'm not sure why he was on the pitch today when the midfield was entirely bypassed for 90 minutes. He's not being played to his strengths.

I'd agree with that. There was many a game last season where the first 45 was poor, but Robinson made effective half time changes. Didn't always win the games, but the performance levels would be night and day and we would rarely see a poor 90. That trait has definitely gone.

It does sound like something you'd say though. Can we just attribute it to you anyway?

Today was reminiscent of the league cup group stage performances and Hibs on the opening day, which I had hoped we had moved on from. Individually and tactically that was a shambles and I don't think we can lay the blame at recruitment when our core group have under-performed to such a level. I have no problem at all with so called "hoofball" when it's effective, but there has got to be a point where plan B kicks in when it's obvious it's not working. I've don't think I've ever seen a game where the entire midfield has been so anonymous. That was even more obvious when plan B was to bring on a fourth striker, despite the clear problem being that we weren't creating chances for the strikers we already had on the pitch. I rarely leave early, but was ready to go at 82 minutes until big Sammon came on. Stayed just for the comedy value of seeing our masterclass front 4.

I'm paraphrasing.

Ambition is one thing, reality is another. Anyone demand better players and a better style of football, however some people need to step back and take a wider and longer term view of the club. Really think about where we are as a club just now - we've made some decent money in recent seasons however the majority of that isn't going into the playing budget.

I suppose we could always expand the playing budget significantly and finish 3rd, 2nd and 2nd. However if I recall correctly, you've also been critical of McCall's achievements because "we had a bigger budget then and everyone else was shite".

"Losing two cup finals". Fantastic bit of spin there. Over our 132 year history, Robinson has taken us to 16% of the major cup finals we've appeared in (2 of 12). Anyone who tries to belittle last years achievements should probably find another new team, because they are in for decades of disappointment.

I can see a wee bit of that hysteria creeping in among the fans, but I do think it's completely devoid of perspective at this stage. Since August we've played 8 games. 3 of them we'd have hoped to have won (Dundee, Accies, Livi) - we've won 2. The other 5 were against Rangers, Hearts, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen. We've lost 4 and drawn 1 however, it's not 2012 anymore - the city clubs have got their shit together and are miles ahead of us in terms of finances and recruitment. Despite that, with the exception of Hibs on the opening day, there hasn't been a great deal between us and them. We really need to wait until after the opening round of fixtures to ask this question.

Ach, the more accurate 'Specialists in decent cup runs as of last season' doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same way.

About 1000 sold for tomorrow - decent enough! Fuck it - going full of optimism because we are cup specialists. I think we'll put in a good show.

Good article outlining Johnson's fitba journey. At 25, he's had his fair share of disappointments along the way by the looks of it. Fair play to him for sticking with it - he certainly looks more than capable at our level. https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/teessider-danny-johnson-dealing-setbacks-15152517

I did notice that we had a couple of goal kicks in the dying minutes and most of our players were slowly wandering into position with backs to our goal. Unlike the Rangers game where we were creating chances, yesterday we had 70 minutes of our forward play being easily snubbed out. I think we were both physically and mentally nackered at the end.

You've summed my own thoughts up well there. Opening 20 minutes aside, Hearts were very well organised and difficult to break down. They have conceded 2 in 5 in the league (6 in 10 in all comps) so it's no coincidence we were made to look ineffective in the final third. I thought we coped with their front line very well with McHugh in particular giving the big man up front a tough time. As you have said, Hearts knew they were in a game and they'll be thankful for that momentary lapse in concentration as I'm doubtful they'd have left with 3 points without it.

Had a few first team sub appearances this season. And.... https://www.facebook.com/domthomassoccerschool/

Great interview. Always impressed when I hear Alan Burrows speak.

Absolutely delighted with not just the result, but the performance as well. We were excellent in large spells yesterday and could (should) have been ahead by at least a couple at half time. Dundee looked like they had been drilled by someone whose only knowledge of football is watching Match of the Day. You could see how much that goal meant to Bigirimana but more notably, how much his goal meant to Robinson. You could see he was absolutely delighted for Bigi and the thumbs up between the two of them points towards a good relationship there. Off the back of Bigi's interview earlier in the week, it's great to see the guy enjoying his football again.