Quinn91

Yes you are allowed to question both. However my point is that the issues that took place cannot/should not be justified by 3/4 smoke bombs. Again we all agree and I know we are not condoning any action involving the smokes. However surely we need to move toward the more pressing issues involved on Saturday rather than continuing to go on about smoke bombs. I can reassure you all that the bois are dealing with with smokes behind the scenes, as much as is physically possible. Again time to unite and get this sorted, the heavy hands statement went viral early last night, and is now nearing 60,000 views on different social media outlets.

I find it really hard to understand why people cannot grasp the reasons for fans being in an uproar against the police here. No one has condoned smoke bombs being brought into the stadium, or being set off during the game, or being thrown toward the pitch, which is still to be proved. No one has argued that this was the start of the problems, however does setting off 3/4 smoke bombs merit the response given. My answer would be no. In my opinion there were many incidents that were not dealt with appropriately by the police during Saturdays game. Firstly was the way they conducted arrests on possible suspects, normally what happens is the police would view CCTV and then move on the suspect, where as Saturday was a case of move in and grab on the advice of stewards. Which has lead to one lad in particular being lifted, and It has now been discovered that this lad is innocent. So there's the first thing that's wrong. The whole attitude of the police toward any member of the support who were confident enough to question there actions, were then threatened with arrest. Stop and search on anyone they chose with what seemed like very little intelligence, ranging from lads in their 20s to boys who are 15 being taken to the toilet/concourse to be searched. Which opens up a whole host of issues surrounding that. The kettling in and detail taking, searching and arresting of fans in the end section, with the majority innocent of any of the smoke bomb offences. Remembering that two or three people had already been arrested , therefore the police were looking for one maybe two people in that full section. Due to the kettling in of fans, parents were separated from their children. Which caused uspet on both sides, with the police being very reluctant to co-operate and allow these distressed children to find their parents. So much so that one parent was threatened with arrest if he did not leave when he was trying to get his son. It's already been said but someone hit the panic button and called in the police who were at ibrox policing the rangers game. Many officers who came in were under the illusion a riot was taking place. When you look back at the kettling in of fans, I would applaud the bois involved as it could have went sour very very quickly. If the lads began to push against the police line it had the possibility of turning ugly. So using restraint and common sense, something missing from the police, the situation did not escalate further than it already had. All in all the police intimidated, threatened and incited crowd trouble. Refused people their civil and human rights. For what? An incident that could have and should have been dealt with in a much more appropriate way. Now let me ask you this? For you all out there who have children, would you have been happy for your 15 year old son to be searched by police with no responsible adult/guardian of that child present? Or for your child to become distressed due to a situation that escalated due to the actions of the very people who are meant to protect you? These are the points that the Heavy Hands Empty Stands campaign surely will look to address. It is about time we all stood together against the oppression that we see in Scottish football grounds. There are much bigger issues than a few smokes.

+4=128

Aye the club might not control the police but the police are there for assistance to the stewards as i have been told in the past and they will only interfear on the request of the stewards most of the time it seems that way anyway.

Big Stall, i didn't mean it to come out defensive and was meant just to simply answer your question as best as i could not to sound cheeky or ubrupt or defensive in any way.

Group ran for about 2 years properly, and aye that was the group u saw with the polis hats.

Absolutely nothing to do with anyone outside the group. As explained before the group disbanded due to differances between people in the group and as a result the group split with the Eastend Baby Crew comming out as another group, with the same ideas and aims that the wellboys had and they sit in the same seats as the wellboys used to. Anything else?

You all having a laugh expecting the rightous do gooders that are the stewards trying to do anything other than to give greif to motherwell fans, getting them to sit down etc When on this site a steward himself came on and admitted that he is scared to go in and tell old firm fans not to do things such as to stand. Although they have the backing of Lanarkshires finest whom today took nothing to do with the motherwell fans standing as they can see it is a joke. The stewards and club officals are a disgrace and only a few are the execption.

Right to clear a few things up, the aims of the WB86 is not to represent the fans as such. It is to create atmosphere and colour and to act like a 12th man to the team. Now the issues that were brought up at this meeting were that of ones which effected the group and the members of the group. Trying not to sound like a complete dick but the WB86 are not interested in being invloved with what the trust do as we are totally different. We will represent the views/complaints at meetings as they are beinificial to the group, but they are also benificial to alot of the Motherwell support, this happenes to be a bonus however i would like to reitirate that the WB86 is not wanting to be working from the same script as the trust, or being the new voice of the fans. As mentioned above.

Thanks and cheers for the support.

Personally i am still a bit fazed by it all. The group will be unable to pass a final verdict on how well the meeting went until after a good few home games, to see how long it takes before things change back, if they do. What was said at the meeting? Well basically we as a group went in there wanting certain things to remain or be enforced/allowed from what is just now and before the meeting. There was a clear compromise made about the standing issue and that is that the 2 back rows of the section and the east stand will be allowed to stand. This IS progress as before it was only the back row, but some out there may think well the 2nd back row has stood or whatever. But for this to be clarified is progress in my eyes. Also there was a lack of knowledge/understanding of the stewards situation from our point of view, also a lack of knowledge/understanding of what we as a group aim to achive from the stewards point of view. Now this has been rectified bringing up issues about ejection, the way stewards are trained, procedures that are in place, for the "misbehaviour" of fans, and the thinking behind decisions by stewards, match commander H&S officer etc. This is again progress as there is now a channel of communication and both parties are able to look upon each other with a bit more respect, but for how long who knows. A third point that was brought to the table was about safe standing and areas designated for this. We are aware of the complications of this as most are. But it was brought up in order to be discussed at the other meetings as an ongoing point. As of ways to get around legislation and changes in law. Which is still a long way off. To move onto the descrimination/2nd class citizen point made earlier in the thread by myself we spoke about this and it was made apparent that the treatment of motherwell fans is paramount to the body that we met with. Now in my eyes i do not feel that this has been resolved and there is along way to go before the treatment of us as supporters changes. But the good thing to come from this is that Allan Marshell has presented himself to us as a contact for any mistreatment of fans by stewards and i belive this will take into account the treatment of one set of supporters to another. Eg. the way old firm fans are treated compared to the home support. I am pretty sure i have covered everything from the meeting, but i as stated above the group and i are very wary of how good this will come and how approchable everyone will be. But only time will tell how good things will get or if they will result in the club losing the trust of many more fans if they fuck it up. OF course it is a two way thing but if trouble isn't looked for trouble doesn't happen.

The other lads that were at the meeting has spread the word and i have done so myself but will wait to speak to everyone tonight to make sure they are all aware of everything that was said.

I understand where you are comming from and i would be more than happy to sit down, if everyone is sitting. But if Other fans of the same team or different team are being allowed to and i am not then that is where the problem arises. It is simply discrimination between other sets of fans. And if it is not that then it is incompetant fools not doing their jobs properly.

The only time that there is any lack of respect is when the motherwell fans, as a whole, and our group are treated differently from any visiting fan base. Such as like you said if the whole south stands and they refuse to sit because of us then it works the same way as well which is something that i hope this meeting will have a barring on. There is also a great inconsistancy between stewarding week in week out this needs to be addressed as without the same rules/regulations being put in place every game and being enforced then what is the point in having them. For example i have stood and bounced about for the full 90 mins at an old firm game without Question (at FP) but then weeks after at a hibs/kille game i am told to sit down and being threated with ejections, for nothing different from what was done weeks previous. Everyone from my side is well aware that it is not, as said before, a points scoring excersie. Common ground must be found between us and officials and we need to deal with the issues that we have with officials and the issues the officials have with the way we support our team. To the extent that will be achiveable through this meeting.

Well about this pre-meeting i have pm'd Frazzle to no reply so if Dossier wishes to pm myself about it then we are quite happy to oblige.

Has to be Faddy and Tommy Coyne

Meeting will be held at Fir park by myself and others from the WB86 also a rep from the trust will be in attendance. WB decided as a group who would be best to attend the stewards and match commander was a joint decision by the WB and Wellboy60 during a match and over PM's. And any member of the trust is welcome. Obviously we will not want to over crowd the place so trying to keep the numbers down.

He is the steward in the section of the east that we sit in. I think he is meant to be one of the head stewards in the east. The guy that dives about with the head set on.

Again about the stewarding, the fact is it comes down to everyone being treated the same. Like neil said above if the stewards enforced this to all parts of the ground that were standing or bouncing, including away fans especially the old firm, then the group is more than happy to sit down. If we do not sit the we look like arseholes and run the risk of being ejected or worse. But when, in my eyes, discrimination is happening like that to me on a personal level then i will not take it from anyone rule or no rule regardless of it being police or stewards telling me what to do. That arguement has been given to them time and time again to no avail so until something is done. Why should we be treated like second class citizens at our own ground? Also it is not set legislation that you must be seated at a game as it is nothing but guidelines which those in positions of so called authority wish to distribute whenever they see fit. Not giving any consistancy and therefore making the matter much worse.

Thanks to all the fans who support us in what we are trying to do at Fir Park. It's a hard enough job with modern stewarding and policing at game let alone our own fans having digs at us. Seib, You have said this again and again. Can you not understand that this simply does not have the effect on us that you want it to? It would be a sad day anywhere if people took on board critisisms like that and changed there ways to suit the minority that has posted. If you or anyone has a problem with the group or a specific member then it would be better delt with face to face instead of over a computer. And if you see us all as wee boys then a face to face meeting might change your view. If not then i don't really care. But attempting to lour someone to your house with milk and bisuits isn't a bit pedoish then i don't know what is.