Welldaft Mk1

It is precisely because he is on the ball a lot and is elusive that he gets fouled a lot. That then means yellow and red cards for the opposition. Normally this means that the player with a yellow is less effective as he has to be careful not to get another or when it is a red the team with 11 men have a better chance of winning - then again.... So yeah getting fouled a lot does or should actually help the team. I think we will agree to differ on this one...........

So what exactly is your point.......... It is hardly his (individual) fault that the team were not able to capitalise on the occasions that the opposing team were a man or two down or because Forbes missed a penalty v Hamilton - all of these key turning points you seem to agree were down to Jim O'Brien. Were he not in the team we would not have had all these opportunities. END OF. I do not have him down as some magician that is the saviour of the team, merely as a decent, creative player who will be a loss should he leave at Xmas. And it is my opinion that that is closer to the belief of most Well fans. Or perhaps they share your views that he is largely a waste of space and will not be missed at all. Time will tell who is right.

TBH Trafficlight I think that is how most semi optimistic Well fans would summarise the season so far. But there are those on this board who would moan were we top of the SPL table and in the last 16 of the champions league

You have........... Penalty at Dundee Utd, Penalty at Hamilton - many players sent off (not that this has a positive impact!!) for persistent fouling of him. I am not saying he has done this week in week out, but if you seriously believe losing O'Brien will not weaken the team..mmmmmmmm

Glenn Roeder was in the main stand yesterday and he mentioned that he knew Big Lukas well and that Lukas was more than happy to stay at Motherwell till the end of the season. As for Ruddy. I believe he will stay unless someone comes in with a cash bid to Everton during the January transfer window. The problem with that is that with each passing week this looks a more likely scenario

Reading the posts on here always seems to be one extreme to another. How anyone can say we are in a terrible state on and off the pitch beggars belief. We are going through a tough run of fixtures right now against the top half of the table and DDee, Hibs, Celtic and Gers all have much stronger squads than we have. Time to judge is when we have played a full second round of fixtures. We will not finish in the top 4 but if we are still in the top 6 of the SPL and in the Sc Cup I will be more than satisfied. Funny how at the start of the season most if not all fans would have been happy with a top 6 finish and avoiding a battle against relegation. Not saying that will happen but we are still 5th in the SPL. That said I was puzzled with the subs yesterday - I now know that jennings had cramp - as I would have taken meechan off and then put on Sutton and NOT Pollok, just as he would have given us an aerial threat if nothing else. As for O'Brien not even being on the bench. I would like to know what is going on........it certainly looks as if he is off at Xmas. As long as we get a decent wedge and it is not a fire sale....just a shame as when on form he si the one player that can open up a defence and create huge problems. Celtic won comfortably at the end of the day and the scoreline perhaps flattered us a little, but you cannot ignore the fact that Celtic are still oen of the biggest clubs in world football and can bring on a £4m striker when we bring on a 17 year old. It is not all doom and gloom - A reality check is what is needed here!!

You are quite right Ya Bezzer, but in truth it is not just a Motherwell problem. A combination of crap weather, televised game, state of the economy and time of year all played it's part. Aberdeen had under 10,000 for yesterday's game and there were 44,000 at Ibrox when normally there would be 50,000. Even a Parkhead recently there were 42,000 for a league game when they used to get 58,000+. Looking at those figures I actually thought our attendances would have shown a greater decline on 07/08. Of course it will be hurting us as will the decline in corporate hospitality, although I do believe bar takings/profitability are up substantially since they brought Doogie back into the fold. It is maybe just as well we have taken in £1.5- £2m since this time last year - £400k for Porter, £800k+ for Quinn and Clarkson, £250k compo for McGhee and Leitch and approx £250K for Uefa cup run. Without that I don't doubt we would be struggling big time. As it is, it probably means we are probably just keeping our head above water. Just wish a few more fans would turn up to cheer the boys on.

Couldn't have put it better myself Ya Bezzer. I think we all would have been a lot happier if he had come out once or twice and questioned the standard of referees and leave it at that. But this is looking like it is going to run and run and IMHO he has not helped the situation one bit. Why comment at all on a game not involving Motherwell?? Especially an Old firm one. I don't know the intricacies of the Dallas saga but why the hell could they have not had a face to face meeting to resolve. I will not be the only one - if tomorrow we get a whole host of decisions going against us - thinking is this related to the negative comments regarding refs. It should not happen, but then again...... I rate Gannon as a Manager and he has done a fairly decent job so far, but his handling of this entire episode has been questionable and if he wants to go further in the game he needs to handle certain aspects with a tad more diplomacy and professionalism. Just let it go Jim and concentrate of getting the Well a few more wins

I think we all agree that the media will take whichever slant to a story that gets more attention whether true or not and make up stories or misquote all too often. I think we also agree that the standard of refereeing is very poor in the SPL at this moment in time. But I am not in agreement with the stance that Gannon is taking. It is not just Motherwell FC that are victims - take the Hearts game yesterday - this is hard given my fellings towards the jambos in general, but Mike Stewart was handbags and warranted a yellow card at worst. Then you had the incident at the end when a free kick was awarded against Callum Elliot for what looked like a foul against him in the penalty box and one where I would have been looking for a Motherwell penalty. I believe that Gannon is a very good Manager but he is in danger of ruining both his reputation and that of the club. Whatever has got his back up - perhaps he sould be thankful he is in a job or he is not in Afghanistan etc etc There are millions of people worse off and IMHO he is coming across as petulant. If he improves this side of his management skills - he will go a long way. If he continues along this path that the whole world is against him and his team - then he will definitely limit his long term potential.......

Disappointing result but not entirely unexpected given the way Hibs have been playing. I think the time to judge is after two full rounds of fixtures. By some twist of fate we are playing 5 of the top 6 in a row(excluding us of course!) and then St J and Hearts making 7 of the top 12. We don't play the bottom 4 till the New Year. Not that it guarantees us picking up points playing the bottom 4, but if we are still in the top 6 come the New Year I will be fairly happy. After this weekend I think it is unlikely we will make top 4 - so top 6 and decent Cup run will do I suppose. Not giving up altogether - just being realistic The cup takes on a more important slant - which worries me of course...............

Agree with that Rickoza and also impressed by the fact we have only lost 1 game and we are nearly into December. That said the draws are hurting us. 7 Draws. We would have more points if we had taken 3 wins and 4 losses out of those 7 games!!! Interesting to note (probably been mentioned elsewhere) that due to a quirk in the fixture list we now play the 4 teams above us in a row and with Aberdeen - make it the full top 6 in a row!! Could drop out of the top 6 by the end of that run. Hope not. Reading some of the posts you would think we had only 1 win to our name this season............typical Steel(MOAN)men Online

Each to their own opinion. I have never supported Motherwell because I expected them to go on an all out attack and win or lose games by a few goals each time. I would still support them if they were bottom of the 3rd division. Obviously I would like us to win more games and see more exciting football - who wouldn't? But given the mess that we were left in the summer after Muttley jumped ship - I am pretty pleased with where we are right now - CIS cup game being the notable exception. Fox - if you want to see the football you dream about or perhaps believe you are entitled to see - then it is quite incredulous to believe you will find it in junior football!!! Short of going to the Emirates every second week then I am afraid you sound like you would be disappointed pretty much anywhere.

It is disappointing right enough. It was probably a long time ago where we last failed to get a gate of 5000+ against the Jambos. It is old ground though and no-one seems to know how to get resolve. The economy is in the doldrums and I am quite sure Hearts probably brought an extra 500 or so in years gone by. It is just a shame when we are sitting 4th with one defeat and have not conceded against Hearts, Celtic, Rangers, DDee Utd and Aberdeen. Probably never happened before. If we cannot increase the crowd with these results - god knows when we ever will and god knows what the crowd would be like if we were sitting bottom of the league.................

I thought everyone (bar maybe Moutakil) played well today. Coke was back to his best and it is quite staggering to think we had two teenagers in central defence who looked so accomplished. Coke edges it for me - but my runners up spot would go to big Lukas. People have had a go at him recently but today he showed why he is getting better and better. His hold up play and off loading was simply top notch. Go Jukebox

Don't disagree at all fatcalf. But it is the nature of football fans, indeed human nature in general to expect a level of performance when you know a person or team are capapble of it. Frustration is all it is. Had we been sitting where Falkirk are, then none of us would have been too surprised by the events on Tuesday night. What disappoints is that we all know the team can perform better than they did. That said Gannon did say it would be a rollercoaster ride this season. Inconsistency is the by product of a young team. Hell if Real Madrid can lose 4-0 away to a Spanish 3rd division side then we can lose 3-0 away to St Mirren without the need to panic - yet.............. One thing is for sure, even if we won the treble you could put your mortgage on the fact that someone on this here board would be moaning about something

I am sure you are not the only one thinking that after those comments from Gannon. The comments that his young players needed rest but he was not able to give them that time was telling. Essentially outside of 13-14 key players does anyone have a future............. I suspect that a few will be leaving for good or on loan come the Jan transfer window.

You are not the only one. I can assure you however we were as bad as that on Tuesday night. We have done a hell of a lot better than I or most Well fans thought we would so far this season, but in all honesty apart from periods against Rangers and the Killie game we have been fortunate - the Falkirk game being a case in point. 1-0 - 3 points - all hunky dory - but our second half performance that day was akin to Tuesday night. If Falkirk had been anyone other than Falkirk - we would have been lucky to get a point. Saturday and the month of Nov should tell us exactly where we are. 3 home games against our rivals for top 6 - Hearts, Aberdeen, DDee UTd and an away game to our near neighbours. 7 or 9+ points required for Euro/top 6 push. 2,3,4 points and I think we will end up in bottom six. Only my opinion mind.

I'll second that whole post. IMHO he is maybe a slightly poorer Porter, but is a better Sutton. He was unlucky with the shot on Tuesday night. It was actually a good save by Gallacher. I think like Ports he has started slowly, but is now starting to show evidence and signs that he could deliver on a regular basis.

Interesting to note that no two teams are rarely ever the same in these threads. Now we know what a problem Gannon has............. In truth Coke merits a bit of time on the bench judging by his last 2-3 displays but he is likely to start given we and Gannon know what he is capable off on his day. Must be a bit disheartening for the likes of Lasley and Jennings? Jennings looked good against Rangers and this may be the type of game to give him a start if not 20-30 mins of game time. As for Jukebox. Cannot understand the criticism. Admittedly his first touch is reminiscent of Clarkson at times but I thought he did ok on Tuesday night considering he had little or no support and in the last 10-15 mins he was easily our best player. That and the fact he scored 2 goals in his last league game make him a starter in my eyes. I would go with: Ruddy Yas, Hutch, Reynolds, Hammell Hateley, Coke, Forbes, O'Brien Juke, McHugh Unlikely he will opt for 4-4-2, therefore drop McHugh and insert Humphries into right midfield with Hateley playing in front of the back 4. We need to keep it tight and hope we can get a goal. If we win it will be narrowly 1-0 or 2-1.

Unless I am blind there does not seem to be a match thread on Saturday's game. Watched the CIS cup game and was hoping for xtra time for obvious reasons. Celtic could and probably should have scored 4 or 5 tonight but that does not detract from the fact that Hearts looked a decent team. More importantly they looked up for it, were big and physical and harried Celtic around the pitch. Exactly the type of team we struggle against. Dare I say a better St Mirren on tonights evidence In Goncalves they have easily one of the best defenders in the league and Dorman is a poor mans Andy Driver. Hopefully Hammell is fit for the game. I would be tempted to drop Craigan and even Coke from last night's starting 11. We need a HUGE improvement from last night if we are to take anything from this game. As much as I would love 6 points from the next two games I would take 4 points. We certainly need to start picking up 3 points once more.

Certainly it did not look a team tonight that were prepared to fight for each other. It was evident from the get go who was the team more up for it. Some stuff on P&B from a Buddy fan about another supposed bust up between Gannon and Craigan after the match. Comments about players distracting other players sounds a little strange but there is no smoke without fire. Hopefully we can get back to winning ways, but any more performances like tonight and we will be heading down the league fast

Imagine a fair few buying tonight, including 7 from Edinburgh. I suspect somewhere between 1200-1400 Well fans - no a bad turnout on a dreich Tuesday night. Hopefully everyone will be in a mood for a wee sing song...

I hope it is not unfurled until the teams come out onto the park on Saturday. That way I can get up from the Centenerary suite in time..............

One of the commentators said tonight that Celtic had been struggling at home recently with supporters especially disappointed at drawing "WITH THE LIKES OF MOTHERWELL" To be fair to him we had the bare faced cheek not to lie down to them and let them horse us......

We played Aberdeen, Rangers, DDee Utd and Celtic in succession WITHOUT conceding a goal? Impressive considering 3 of those games were away from home. I would wager it would have been a long time ago.............. Come on statties.............