MelvinBragg

Aye, but having seen all three, the nerves were evident in the team in those games. And to be honest with you, second or third isn't a lot riding on it (would third be a terrible season?). Cup games where there's a realistic chance of winning something or games where there's no glory in victory only embarrassment in defeat, that's where we struggle...

Thing is, he has to work with this squad this season. It might make you feel better were he to say "They were a disgrace, if they were horses they'd be on their way to the glue factory" but it's hardly going to help him lift the team is it. I'm pretty sure words will have been had in private but berating the players publicly won't help morale. Or in shorthand, what else could he say?

Personally, I'd be going with Nielsen in goals. Nothing I've seen of Twardzik tells me he's better than him. Nielsen was just finding form when McCall inexplicably recalled Hollis at the end of the season. And he can save a penalty. If we're going to be giving away one every week, it might come in useful...

Indeed, we've scored goals. And that's with the much maligned John Sutton playing up front himself (as he always essentially did last season, McFadden and Anier dropped deeper a lot to pick up possession/find space). Law has two goals and an assist. There are positives there. Just need to work hard to find them right now. I think the club has to address the fact that a lot of fans will have been totally scunnered by this tie. Not just the usual reactionaries but people who normally roll with the punches. In danger of losing the goodwill of a lot of fans, which they will need as financially times are tight. What can the club do? An exciting signing? On our budget? Haven't seen him play but by all accounts Thomas is an exciting player. Play him and Ainsworth. Bring in the young players. Give the fans belief that there is some kind of long term plan. And for god's sake, get them fit. We can forgive incompetence, but lack of effort or the perception of lack of effort in training sticks in our throats..

While I agree that binning McCall is not the answer, neither is writing it off as one of those things. Three of the goals we conceded were penalties? Why were we defending so deep that we were in a position to concede three (defending higher up the park, Lasley's handball is a free kick not a penalty)? And yes I'm aware one of them was won on a counter attack but again surely calls into question our defensive set up. I don't believe it's all doom and gloom but there are issues and frankly to ignore them is naive at best...

I'd disagree about the lack of a defensive midfielder. I think Carswell has all the tools for that job...

The match thread from last night has (rightly) descended into a discussion of the problems we currently face and what we do about it. But serious debate there getting mixed in with justifiable anger. What happened last night happened. As the topic says where do we go from here? Fitness. Or stamina. Or both. Seems to have been an issue for the last year. Clearly need to address it and now we only have a couple of weeks to the start of the season, I don’t know how much improvement we can make right away. Tied in with this, the age of our key players. Back four are all 28 or older. One of the main reasons for my frustration at the use of Kerr in right midfield (aside from the fact it doesn't work) is the fact we should be trying to develop him to replace Ramsden or McManus. Playing him out of position doesn't do this. Lasley (I could understand a one year deal but two?!?) isn't getting any younger. How much game time are Leitch and Carswell going to get if it means dropping the captain? Sutton had a fantastic season but again not getting any younger. Erwin needs a chance. If we keep on with the old faithful, we're going to come to a point where we need to replace four or five of them at once and none of our young players will have developed enough to be ready for the step up. Psychology of our team. Seems to me we can't deal with games where we're heavy favourites or where there's a lot riding on it. Which seems strange given what I've just said about the age of our team. Experience but not the right mentality? Something the coaching staff need to look at. Anyone else brought in will need to be a strong character, see if it can rub off, at least on the young players? Was that not what McManus coming in was supposed to be about? That's just a couple for starters...

Fair point. But I think the guy they appointed has only come in under Stubbs. Does suggest to me that he's come in with good ideas. Fitness didn't seem an issue season before last. What has changed? Or was it there season before last and teams couldn't exploit it because we kept the ball better?

I agree with you but someone is going to point out that losing cup games makes us skint. I'd prefer to point out the number of midfielders we have. Why sign Lawson when Carswell had signed a new contract? Why offer Lasley two years when we have Leitch, Carswell, Vigurs, Law and Lawson, all younger options, the first two in particular needing game time to develop. An unbalanced squad...

Ainsworth rarely lasted 90 minutes last season either so it's not a new phenomenon. I pointed out last night that Hibs have a specific fitness and conditioning coach and asked the question if we have such an individual. I'm suspecting not...

We have one but his reward for saving a penalty against Celtic and finally finding some form was to be dropped for a guy we didn't even offer a contract to. Nielsen has been shafted. Not saying that Twardik should shoulder the blame for this debacle but he hasn't covered himself in glory. Stats can be made to show anything but I find it amusing that people are decrying the lack of a striker. Celtic scored five in two games against a side from Iceland. We scored four against the side top of the league in Iceland. Tends to suggest to me that the problems don't lie in our attacking options. Now you could argue that three of the five we conceded were penalties and one of the others ends in the stand 99 times out of 100. But thing that strikes me is that we're not set up properly defensively if we're getting into positions where we can concede penalties so often. Inviting too much pressure with a lack of ability to maintain possession? Possibly.. I wasn't at tonight's game but a few questions that raised their head tonight have been there for a while. Why can Ainsworth not last 90 minutes? A small, quick Paddy McCourt? Why do the stamina levels of our team seem to be so lacking? I noticed that one of the backroom staff that Hibs have appointed under Stubbs is a fitness and conditioning guy. Do we have such an individual at the club? Why continually play guys out of position? Fraser Kerr is being slated by some. A centre half being asked to play right wing. If you were a joiner asked to do some plumbing work, how would you cope? He may seem to have some qualities that would be useful out there (quick, will obviously track back) but it's a position that's alien to him, no matter how many 15 min sub appearances he gets there. Why have a winger on the bench if you're going to replace Ainsworth with a defender? I feel a deep sense of frustration because despite these obvious flaws, we were the second best team in the country last season. We can and do know how to win football matches. Why is it in cup games, we fail? I actually think we'd have beaten Groningen. Why? Because whenever we're expected to win these one off games, we struggle with expectations. Bad news is that we're probably the fourth biggest club in the league this season so we better get over this psychological barrier soon, because we'll be favourites more often than not... Scunnered but I'll still be there at the start of the season. Why? Because I always am...

Not simply about censoring your celebration, more about not feeling compelled to do the "get it right up you". There is a middle ground. Like you, I find the not celebrating against a former side a bit silly (Jim Hamilton would never have celebrated a goal), but Higginbotham seemed more concerned with our support than the Thistle fans...

That was a missed opportunity. But when the draw was made, I don’t remember thinking "we should beat this lot". Given the first leg, we could have got through but blowing one opportunity against a team that we could (not should) have been good enough to put out does not make a poor European record...

This. I'd be interested to know which teams we've lost to in Europe that people expected us to beat...

Adam Asghar signs for Alloa..

Hibs, I heard last week but the longer it goes on, the more you wonder if it's fallen through...

Don't disagree with you on Smith but our team season 2012/13 was better than McGhee's team...

Aye, know it was a hypothetical as Angol was injured. What I tried to put across was that it was more of a loss than some would think, him not being available...

This may see me marked down as insane but I reckon Angol might have made a difference last night. We kept getting exposed down the left as their right back had no one in his way due to Vigurs tendency to drift inside. Someone more inclined to stay wide would have at least given their right back another body to get past. Thing is, if you play Angol and Ainsworth, you'd need to drop Vigurs, Law or Lasley. Would McCall do that? For me, if you're playing 5 in midfield, at least two have to be players that are natural wide players. Particularly against a packed defence, you need to stretch them out as much as possible...

Given he's first team coach at our first opponents in the league, scouting would be the order of the day...

That same thought occurred to me at the time. Having said that, had Sutton stuck away the chance right after they made it 2-1, I reckon that would have knocked the stuffing out of them. First impressions of the game... Wrong goalkeeper. Nielsen was shafted towards the end of the season, dropped as he was finding form after his penalty save against Celtic. Twardzik looked very shaky tonight. Not that he was helped by the entire left side of defence being exposed/posted missing. Can't make up my mind if Hammell really was that bad tonight or if Vigurs "free role" left him exposed. Thought Carswell was good tonight. Lasley, a bit too headless chicken. Ainsworth, we didn't get the ball to enough early on when it was clear he had the beating of them. Law, too early to tell, but looks comfortable on the ball. Vigurs did a lot well but also made some terrible decisions. Sutton won a lot of ball in the air but was feeding off scraps. My last thought, a question really. When did putting Kerr on at right midfield ever work? Not having a go at Kerr, think he has a lot of potential and attributes to be a solid defender but he looks a fish out of water at right midfield no matter how often McCall plays him there...

Team Twardzik Reid Ramsden McManus Hammell Lasley Carswell Vigurs Ainsworth Law Sutton

Can someone please stop this guy getting to the game tonight..?

In my opinion, that's where we should be playing Vigurs. No real pace required, just an ability to pick a pass. I'd like to see us play a 4231 Nielsen/Twarzik Reid Ramsden McManus Hammell Lasley Carswell/Leitch Ainsworth Vigurs Thomas/unnamed left winger Sutton For those saying Sutton can't play up front himself, I'd be hoping that it would turn into almost a 433 with wingers pushed forward when attacking...

Anyone watch the Celtic game and think on that basis we'll have a hard game on Thursday?