MelvinBragg

Somehow I find it kind of reassuring that despite the unMotherwell like start to the season we're still able to do things the Motherwell way. Struggling against a lower league team in the cup, that feels more like normal... Part of me thinks that one of the problems tonight might have been expectations. for the first time this season, we were going into a game with the pressure of being expected to win comfortably. A different kind of pressure that some of these players won't have experienced before... Alarming as it is to say, I think Gannon might have hit upon something in his post match comments when he said about us looking slightly tired. He has always said that with young players you'll get ups and downs, and for me that's why I was surprised that Jennings and Craigan didn't play tonight. I suppose that when you add the names of Hutchison, Sutton, Humphrey, Slane and Lasley to those two, then we have seven players to bring in who didn't start tonight. My concern would be our over-reliance on O'Brien and Forbes. You wonder where the goals would come from without these two... There were positives and negatives to take from tonight's game. The positives. We got through. This was the sort of game we've lost in the past... Robert McHugh looks like he'll be ready for regular first team action sooner rather than later. Two goals already this season and a very good performance up at McDiarmid Park bode well... The full backs. I thought both full backs did well going forward and Moutaouakil seems at least to give us an alternative out ball to O'Brien. Goals from open play. Had forgotten that we could do that... The negatives. The basic errors that had seemed to have disappeared since the McDiarmid Park seemed to be back tonight. Two goals lost from basic crosses again... For me, Jutkiewicz looked poor. On a night when I thought his pedigree would have stood out, he seemed to make the wrong decisions all too often. Appeared greedy when he had better options. Trying to hard to break his duck...? The lack of pace when you take O'Brien out of the team. Moutaouakil offers some but when subbing O'Brien tonight, I would have given a lot to be able to bring on Slane or Humphrey in order to better stretch their ten men. McGarry is good technically but sadly lacks the athleticism to get into areas where he can use this ability... All in all, a good night. We're through without playing well. We still have players to come back. Maybe a wee reality check for some players in that they were reminded that we have to do the basics right and work hard in order to win games...

What time is kick off? Half past or quarter to...?

I reckon JG will go pretty much full strength, but I think the fact that Craigan, Jennings and Jutkiewicz could probably do with some game time will allow him to rest Coke (or Forbes), Reynolds and Sutton for the games ahead. I think if we had another option, he might rest O'Brien as well...

Tomorrow night sees the visit of Inverness Caley Thistle. Thanks to our good league form this game seems to have been forgotten a wee bit on this forum. I'll be interested to see how seriously JG treats this game. In previous seasons, we've played a weakened side against the lowere league sides in the cup. Strikes me that he might pay a bit more respect, though he could look to give Jennings and a couple of others game time in what could be perceived as an 'easier' game... I'd go with Ruddy Moutaoukil Craigan Saunders Hammell Hately Jenning Forbes O'Brien McHugh Jutkiewicz Thoughts...? EDIT Simultaneous threads with another number. Great minds and all that. Can a mod please merge...?

Saw a bit of Saturday's game on my tea break. Not a fan of girls' football (sorry!) but the Motherwell team definitely looked a class apart from the Falkirk one...

I don't think anyone is pining for anyone too much, Steve. The question is simply would any of them improve the very good team we have at the moment. We all know that this is a hypothetical as we need the fees received from Clarkson and Quinn, and the wages freed up by the departures of the others to improve the squad. You'd have to be blind or stubborn not to admit however that Clarkson would be having a field day in this team. I'm not a believer in looking backwards and saying what if McFadden/McCormack/Porter?McDonald were in this team. But if you want to look at it less hypothetically, I would argue that at the moment the only question marks over whether players have been adequately replaced is in terms of Clarkson and Quinn. The new right back looks the part at the moment - time will tell, and the same applies to Jutkiewicz. I think the adequacy of the replacements for the players lost in the summer is a valid question. Having said that, like you I'm loving every minute of this season...

Another thing that's pleasing at the moment is the fact that if one of our main players isn't on top form we seem to be coping. For me Forbes didn't have anything like his usual game against Rangers, and from all accounts of those who were there Coke was off-form at Tannadice. Despite this we got results in both games. I think it's relevant to mention this in this thread because the guys mentioned in the title of the thread were heavily relied upon last season and if one or two of them didn't perform, we'd struggle for a result. Much more of a spread of responsibility throughout the team at the moment... On the subject of Slane, I'd like to see both him and Humphrey back soon. We're undoubtedly a quicker team than last season (compare Coke and Hately with Hughes and Klimpl, Moutaoukil with Quinn) but O'Brien is the only real blistering pace we have in the final third at the moment (and look how grief he is causing defenders). Slane or Humphrey would offer the same pace on the other side. Good to have both opposition full backs with something to think about...

Strangely, I was giving this very question some thought last night. And came to the same conclusion that Dave did in his original post. Right back is still up for debate, but the one player that left in the summer that would without question improve our team right now would be Clarkson. Particularly given Gannon's preference for players with a bit of mobility... As to Shallow Dave's point regarding clean sheets, this struck me as well. After the Killie game, if you'd told me we'd keep three clean sheets in a row, two without Craigan and all three without Hutchison, I'd have laughed my head off. And I'm laughing now . Given how crucial everyone thought that Slane would be following the European games, the fact that our reasonably impressive start to the season has come without him kicking a ball also bodes well...

As they were last week and, I think, the game before that. No need for the panicky exclamation mark. I would have liked Slane or Humphrey available if only to stretch a tiring defence late in the game (and so that O'Brien wasn't our only out ball), but looking at our bench last week the squad we have is not too bad...

We could embarrass ourselves trying to work out how Gannon is going to have us lining up, he foxes us every time. He's been talking up Cadamateri in the press, if that's not kidology then if he's seen as the danger man then I reckon Reynolds will play centre back due to his pace. Beyond that, who knows. I'd be tempted to start with McHugh or Murphy up top and keep the ball on the deck as neither Sutton nor Jutkiewicz (sp?) will get much change out of their land of the giants defence. Working the channels might be our best bet, I reckon. Right now, I'd rip your arm off and beat you with the wet end for a point...

Cheers for the good words. Have just read the blog on the BBC website regarding the young Stockport striker who's lost his brother to leukaemia and and all that the club have done/are doing for the charities associated with the disease. BBC Article Hats off to Stockport. It sets an example of how a club can conduct itself in these circumstances. Certainly won this Well fan's admiration...

Prepare yourselves for the biggest understatement ever seen on this forum... I wasn't McShovelface's biggest fan. But the constant mention of him and his time with us gives him more importance than he actually deserves. I know most of the stuff posted on here recently is negative about him, and therefore should be music to my ears, but I'm just glad he's away and I'd rather we ignored him as he did our planning for this season. Generally things are really positive around Fir Park at the moment. Stop bringing my buzz down by mentioning the shovel faced prick...

See, normally, I'd be all for jumping all over this sort of comment. But chances are that the guy Wilson has played against half of what is now our first team in the U19s in the last couple of years. Forbes, Murphy, Hutchison, McHugh, he'll have played against them all. I don't think that's what the guy who posted had in mind, he probably thought this would be an easy game. I, for one, am desperately hoping that they pick Weir tomorrow. His age and two international games, I'd be setting Murphy in and about him...

I don't think Tweed was volunteering to go and sit among the Rangers's fans bedecked in Claret and Amber from head to toe. But every other sport in the world, the fans seem able to sit together without too much hassle. What is it about football fans that means we have to be segregated? Why can't we all just behave...?

While years of painful experience have taught me that Rangers generally get the best of us even when they don't deserve it, and as such I anticipate and dread these games in equal measure, I do have a question here... Where has this talk of Rangers' impressive "form" come from? They've gubbed Accies and Falkirk at Ibrox, both clubs who look like they'll be seriously struggling at the bottom end of the table. They won at Tynecastle with the usual last minute penalty (albeit with ten men, but against a Hearts team without a centre forward worthy of the name). Impressive form? Really...? Yes, they might be better than us, and they might hand us our arses on a plate on Saturday, but it's probably better not to think we're beaten even before we start. I've seen us beat a better Rangers team than this one with Miko Kaven in goals for us. I'm not asking for blind optimism, but a bit of belief would be nice here, people...

Darren Barr too expensive...?

I wasn't necessarily complaining when I stated that, Rev. I just get the impression he can be hardline at times. Did the Stockport fans not mention he fell out with the club captain and the guy never pulled the shirt on again? And I've heard a tale of him throwing a Stockport player off a bus in London after an away game and telling him to make his own way home. Mind you, I don't know what the player had said/done Someone I know down south described him to me as like Alex Ferguson without the trophies. I can live with that...

If you have a beef with me, make sure you get the quote right. I said that "He only looked so good because...". And I didn't state that was the case, only asked the question. I have no doubts Reynolds is a good player. But there are many good players who ply their trade at SPL level and go no further. In my opinion, Reynolds has not looked consistently like a player destined for bigger things. Is that OK with you? We're getting into dangerous territory if we can't criticise players on here (I rarely do it at the ground, and if I do it tends to be "You need to do better than that.." rather than "You're shite, X") in case they read it. And now you've extended it to say in case young fans quote the posts and it gives them a negative view. Away and gie yerself peace...

I realise that Aberdeen will probably finish above us in the league. But I don't care. The interview with him on the BBC website that is linked in the McGhee thread in Other Football has given me more joy than his entire second season with us did. The haunted, pained expression on his face... I have such a big grin on my face right now, I could be auditioning for the part of The Joker...

Naw, it was better than that. I burnt Stewart Milne's chequebook...

Anyone ever consider that he only looked so good that season because everyone else (with the exception, grudged, of a fat Australian) was so terrible? And as the least experienced guy on the park, he was never going to get much stick anyway...

True Luckily, I had no need for a tin hat as I have a hard heid. Although I have to say that when steelboy mentioned about sticking rigidly to one formation irrespective of whether it suited the personnel, an individual with a big coupon in the shape of a shovel popped into my head. As an aside, I think I've done very well reining myself in as others have stuck the boot into our previous manager. Mainly, I suspect, because I'm just content that he left...

I know I started the topic (and I'm well aware we're still in "too early to know for sure" but we're fans, we speculate) but I can honestly say I don't know how to answer the question. Aye, we have more bodies in but is there the quality. Midfield is the one area I feel most confident. Given the choice between Klimpl and Hughes or Forbes and Coke, this season's duo wins every day of the week and twice on a Sunday. The fact that we also have Hately, Jennings and Lasley is neither here nor there, the two guys I mentioned are, for me, going to be our key guys this season. And the way they've played so far, I'm quite happy with that. My concern surrounds the two best players of those we lost. Clarkson left some pretty big shoes to fill and, not having seen the Pole play, I'll wait and see if he can step up and do the job. Quinn, for all his faults, will take some replacing. He was a winner and a good defender. Saunders is a good defender but I don't think he offers the same attacking outlet. Maybe the guy from Charlton will fit the bill. But Quinn (as Clarkson was to a certain extent) was a leader on the park. As gifted as the young guys in the team are, we're still waiting to see of any of them have the same character. I know Craigan is captain, but it won't do any harm if a couple of people step up to the plate to be his lieutenants. I just don't see who that is going to be at the moment. Coke? Jennings? Hard thing to do when you're just in the door. Having said all that, I don't know when I've ever felt as positive as a Well fan...

Jim Gannon certainly is a character who will divide people. He's clearly very self-confident but that may sometimes come across as arrogant. I can see why Gannon would have them watching DVDs of his side at Stockport. As others have said, if he'd got that team playing exactly the style of play he wants then it makes total sense to show the players exactly what he has in mind. Aye, Liverpool play the same 4-2-3-1 but if he shows the players that then they're likely to sit and think "Well, that's all very well but I'm not Gerrard/Torres/Carragher". I've heard talk from down south that he's very much "my way or the highway". And that's part of the reason for his fondness for young players. He seems them as easier to mould into the type of players he wants. Which is fair enough, it's his neck on the line. I've never heard of a club getting rid of the full first team but keeping the manager when results go badly. But for all perceived stubborness and foibles, he has engendered a positivity among the fans. Whether that goes for the players or not as well, I can't say. But the players who are in the first team will always be happier than those not playing, it's the nature of the thing. All I know is that 10 days before the Llanelli game, the only recognisable first team we could have put out would have read Fraser Saunders Craigan Reynolds Hammell McGarry Lasley Fitzpatrick O'Brien Murphy Sutton Not a terrible team but we now have options and irrespective of what you think of the teams he put out against St Johnstone and Aberdeen, they were certainly better than the eleven I have listed above. It's very early in his reign and I'm not ready to proclaim him the new messiah, but I saw more smiles coming out of the Kilmarnock game than I had in over a year at Fir Park...

Not since the days of Kampman, has there been such a radical change in the squad overnight. I thought it'd be interesting to compare the squad we had when the transfer window opened to the one we have upon its closing and see if folk think it's better, worse or about the same. I know it's very early to say anything definitive, but there's no game this weekend, we need to talk about something... Try and take off the McShovelface hating specs when voting. Obviously it's subjective in some cases who you consider in the first team squad. I haven't included Hutchison, McHugh or Slane in last season's squad since they didn't feature enough to be considered first teamers. But here goes... GOALKEEPERS Then: Graeme Smith, Artur Kryziak Now: John Ruddy, Michael Fraser DEFENDERS Then: Paul Quinn, Stephen Craigan, Mark Reynolds, Stevie Hammell, Brian McLean, Steven Saunders Now: Yass Moutaouakil, Stephen Craigan, Mark Reynolds, Shaun Hutchison, Stevie Hammell, Steven Saunders MIDFIELDERS Then: Stephen Hughes, Maros Klimpl, Bob Malcolm, Mark Fitzpatrick, Keith Lasley, Steven McGarry, Jim O'Brien, Darren Smith Now: Giles Coke, Ross Forbes, Steven Jennings, Chris Humphrey, Paul Slane, Tom Hately, Mark Fitzpatrick, Keith Lasley, Steven McGarry, Jim O'Brien, Darren Smith FORWARDS Then: David Clarkson, John Sutton, Jamie Murphy, Cillian Sheridan Now: John Sutton, Bob McHugh, Jamie Murphy, Lukas Jutkiewicz Obviously if you simply play a numbers game, this season's squad has more bodies. But that's simply due to Gannon bringing in young guys as well as his signings. You could argue that I've overinflated the size of this year's squad because the likes of Smith, Lasley and Fitzpatrick seem to have drifted so far that they may not be considered by some to be in our first team squad. You have to weigh up the versatility of Klimpl and Malcolm (stop sniggering) against that of Reynolds and Hately. Thoughts and opinions...?