Steve Diggle

I'm not an amateur gardener or a plumber. But I know water only leaks out of the pipes when they're initially burst (last spring when they were spiked along withn the clay layer) and subsequently when water's forced through it. If it was leaky / holy when we tried it for the hearts game it would have bled outwards from the pipe and froze and caused hard spots round the leaky parts (which sounds quite like what happened round the time of the hearts game does it not) Not working to full capacity = canny run water through it!

I reckon we'll take 20,000 I also reckon the dudes registered over on Pie n Bovril should tell them that we've sold 127 tickets so far.

If they get the finger out between the clubs and the rozz wrt tickets - we could have a decent turnout for this!

I agree with most of that - although I think that c) 'Well fans were upset that prices were dropped for the Old Firm - I think we all could have stomached lowere prices to increase the gate for games involving teams closer to us in the table. I think reducing prices outwith the OF would have been well recieved by the 'Well faithful Edit: Just realised you were talking purely about the OF - in which case ye might be close to the mark

So is SCott Burns making it up as well Flow?

One of the other misconceptions in all of this as well is. I've been arguing the point, long and weary, about not verbally abusing James McCarthy in the way that we do because I think it's an international issue, that as a support we're better than that, that we should rise above it and avoid giving crap journalists an opportunity to slag us and genuinely believe that if the boy's grandparent is Irish and he's made that decision as international football rules (which Scotland has benefited from) allow it then it's no big deal. On the flip side - I can handle the counter arguments - I don't agree with them - but they are peoples beliefs so I'm cool with that. However - the 'PC Brigade', 'over sensitive', 'too easily offended' - are all labels put forward to add weight to the counter argument. All this doesn't 'offend' me I'm just putting my views forward as I think we could be 'cleverer' & distance ourselves from the racist / sectarian labels. Anyone can do what they like in a football ground - I'm not naive enough to believe anything I say will change that.

Its a fair point BB and I understand where you're coming from. But by the same token - I know a fair few people who are being driven away or don't come to Fir Park as often as they should because of what comes from the stands. I think prices, playing teams 4 x a season, old firm bias / domination etc are having a bigger effect in driving folk away tho.

Was in The Coop that night myself - well over half full and a really decent atmosphere.

Were you all related to sand castle?

Jim O'Brien in The Evening Times He'll get slaughtered on here for that - but hey he's got my respect.

It had improved (wouldn't say sorted) - but on Saturday it was back to sounding like Arthur Mullard shouting through through a megaphone from Airbles Road

People on here unfortunately know more than you appear to be giving them credit. From what I've gathered by people who are regulars on this site and the previous one. The pitch was relaid - that's all that was done (it would appear) The system didn't fail - well mibbez it did fail - but mibbez it failed because it was damaged in the winter last year when we spiked through the clay layer (allegedly) many posters (on the previous site) live near the ground or passed by at various times. Work did not commence til very late into the close season and although no one can be 100% sure what actually did happen - many support the view that only the top surface was relaid. When something altogether more substantial was promised by the chairman. The work to sort out the drainage and remove the clay layer as well as repair the punctured sections of the USH (after spiking) didn't appear to happen as it would have taken far longer to complete and would have required much deeper excavation than just the top surface. The club have had ample opportunity since the close season to answer a very simple question and have refused at every turn to be drawn. To say that no-one here knows the truth is also wrong. There are some on here that do know, plus the club know exactly - it's just that they haven't entered the debate or answered a simple question yet. The pitch is worse than it should be - because we're also training on it! btw - This is very easily cleared up. Once again, Mr Boyle, what work was carried out on our playing surface during the close season?

Aye difficult to defend! The point is all the dictionary definitions allow someone to shoe-horn what those fans do into the necessary category - like in a legal case. It will then be left to someone within the club to argue 'theoretically' that it's not. Which is far more difficult than one or two of us saying - "hey it's not racist it's just a scotland international football thing" and less straightforward and simplistic than we would probably think. The media love it. They love the opportunity to pounce on our club (ignoring many others). The issue had been raised before and we knew it was gonna happen again. We discussed here last week that the press would pick up on it - ignoring identical treatment from Utd and rangers fans and lo and behold. Look at the definition of Racial Discrimination Defined by the UN and see how easy it could be for someone to 'shoe-horn' what's happening. Again - before anyone starts. What I'm doing here is explaining where the people who are currently pointing the finger at MFC are coming from and suggesting that it might be more problematic for the club to defend than many think.

Maybe flow could cut n paste it - it would be good to have it shared.

It's a fair point fatcalf - they seem to be singling us out although from highlights on the telly Utd were pretty vocal and Rangers were way worse than 'well were. The pointlessness of the whole thing astounds me though - big sections of the East Stand grown men included, standing up to abuse an overrated, ill advised wean is a bit hard for me to get my head round. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I can see Motherwell being the first club taken to task for 'racial' abuse by the football authorities. (Can I just say, before someone starts I'm not advocating that here - I'm just making the prediction) How bizarre and ironic would that be? Like in legal cases - although we all assure each other that it's not racial. It becomes difficult for the club to stand up at a hearing and convince the authorities that it isn't. Again not saying that it is - just pointing out that it might prove difficult to defend at a hearing.

Fair play Mark - Good article. Whole thing dedicated to the need for positive encouragement when things aren't going well. And the pointlessness of abuse.

Oh and by the way - It says f--- all about a 2.00 cut-off on the website.

I take it the club want fans to go through to this one? They get a split of the gate dont they? I turned up at the ticket office at 2.20 today to buy tickets for Thursday's game. Guy in a hi-viz said "Here to pick up tickets" I said "Yip here to get some tickets for the St. Mirren game" Hi Viz says "Sorry they were only on sale up until 2.00 and wont be back on sale until Monday" I says "Yer Jokin" He says "Sorry just for folks picking up tickets for today" I said "What a load of fuckin bollocks" You would seriously think that they dont want people to buy tickets and go to this game. The danger is now that - I don't go over for tickets because I cant be arsed - or cant get a flyer from work, or it's pishin it doon on Wed / Thurs and we decide "Stuff it we'll watch it on the telly" There was no queue in the ticket office by the way - I could have walked through the door right into the office. But Naw - we're not selling tickets - we're too busy handing free COMPS out!! AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhh!!!! Motherwell!

It really looks like the scenario that was picked up on by many in the close season has turned out to be true. The failure of the club to say anything different merely heightens the likelihood of it being true. We put in undersoil heating at the start of last season. The soil below the pitch was predominently clay. When we started using the new undersoil heating the clay baked and caused a barrier to be formed between the turf and the drainage that kept rain water on the turf. Hence the mudbath that we witnessed last season. Consultants were brought in (for a root and branch investigation if I mind right) and the these set of conditions were diagnosed and the club were made aware (as up til now everyone was unaware of what was causing 'the deep end). Large spikes were driven through the baked clay layer to re-make the link between the turf and the drainage system In doing this the undersoil heating was damaged. John Boyle promised that all would be fixed Best playing surface in the SPL this year apparently. The season ended Nothing happened Still nothing happened The New season approached Instead of fixing the USH, improving the drainage and realying the pitch - we hastily relaid the pich only. The pitch was only just ready for the pre-season friendlies Hence the 'failure of USH' come winter I imagine if you turn it on in frosty conditions - water pishes out burst pipes and freezes on the pitch surface. Hence the cancellation of the Hearts match Hence the re-emergance of the bubble Hence throwing good money after bad in heating the bubble £15-£20K per game reportedly All of this if true (and it looks as if it is) is a complete scandal Taking a huge chance as 'we don't usually have games frozen off' and we were found out. Heads should probably roll - but they won't The fans who looked for answers - even before the SPL investigaton Ms Dempster - have been taken for complete idiots.

The worry now is waterlogging.

From last saturdays stating 11, I'd drop Lasley in favour of one of the big guys - either Sutton or Sheridan and keep Shug and Fitzy in the middle with Klimpl. Shug can make a huge difference as long as he's played in midfield. Fitzy got stick on Sat but was miles more effective and visible than Lasley.

Great article - almost makes up for yesterday's debacle.

Anyone know when (what time) this SPL meeting about the pitch is today and whether there's likely to be a statement immediately afterwards. What are the potential implications for the club and employees for the various scenarios:- No USH (but we lied that we had "we checked all the pressure gauges and they seemed to be at the correct levels" - MMcG) Malfunctioning USH Functioning USH - but not used properly (turned on early enough) Functioning USH - but freak hard spots in the centre circle and South Stand 6 yard box - Just our Donald Duck type scenario. I don't have a clue how this will go. We could escape with a rap on the knuckles or we could be taken to the cleaners. This could potentially go very badly for some folk at the club if they have been found to be lying or perhaps failing to answer several simple questions from various parties including ourselves the fans. I'm not just talking about John Boyle here either. What are folks thoughts?

I think it'll be a tough one on Saturday - but I think we'll come out on top. The performance at NDP was a shocker and I'm sure we'll try to make ammends for that. I think we've got the measure of them in all areas of the park. I think Klimpl in midfield breaking up their creative two and keeping Mensing in tow, as well as O'Brien wide, Craggs back in defence and Clarkson back on song will make the difference. I think we'll do it by the odd goal. But hey - if we get it right we could sort them out good and proper.