2011/12 Ins & Outs Thread

[Yoshi-1991]

after reading the st midden forum, i hope they get relagated next season. how delusional must you be to think your team that struggles to stay up every season is on the same wave length as a top 6 team that have been in europe 3 seasons in a row. dont get me wrong we are not a "big" club, but a move from them to us can only been seen as a step up!

 

 

and i would like to know how we are cheats? that word got flung about on their forum.

[div]

Honest assessment from a Saints fan on Higdon;

 

He can hold the ball up, and if he gets good service in the box he will score goals, no doubt about it.

 

I will absolutely guarantee you though that your fans will be frustrated with his work ethic and the amount of fouls that are rightly or wrongly given against him.

 

We are also well placed to answer the important question.

 

Is he better than Sutton ?

 

No.

[Amber_nectar]

Higdon for me is exatly what our team has lacked for so long a forward that defenders can't actually muscle of the ball. Big Richie Foran always gave as good as he got and Jim Hamilton could handle himself but Higdon just strikes me as an all round good player. He has a bit of everything but most of all he can actually hit a ball. The thought of Hutch and Hig in the box with Hateley whipping the corners in actually fills me with hope for the season ahead. Add to that the height of Saunders.

I still think we lack that creative midfielder who can find a pass in the last third and that is no disrespect to las or Jenno they are fantastic players for us.

We have had 11 players leave and that is two come in Higdon and Devlin. Of that 11, one was a first team regular and I think he has been replaced with an equally good if not better player.

I would love to see Jonathan Page given a crack of the whip this year, looks a decent player that can certainly man mark a player out of a game (zemama).

Looking forward to seeing what other signings are coming to the arc.

[mfc]

they call us cheats for going into administration even after all this time they still bang on about it you would think having a shite manager,shite stadium,shite players,shite fans they would have more to worry about agreed i hope the go down next season they offer fuck all to the spl

 

 

[Tweed]

More I think about it the more I realise the impact of this signing will be determined by who else we get. We don't have a great ball deliverer from open play and from what I read and have seen he aint going to chase the aimless lump. At the moment our midfield don't create enough and that has been a season long problem.

[Motherwell89]

ahh old richie foran, was one my favourite players when he was with us, almost certain to score from the penalty spot everytime

[Amber_nectar]

ahh old richie foran, was one my favourite players when he was with us, almost certain to score from the penalty spot everytime

 

Think Higdon likes a penaly too. I have just realise something if you look a Higdon's name he is surely destind for Aberdeen Hig "the" Don. Surely not

[Inthebasement]

Everyone in Scotland seems to have decided Sutton is a top striker. I like the guy a lot, contrary to the crazy comments a couple of pages back Sutton had the knack of scoring important goals and a brilliant attitude and work rate. I'll hate it if we end up booing him but given his new colours - what else are we going to do? Doesn't change the fact that he hs been third choice at Well under a couple of managers and for a few years - not a star player and no great loss.

 

Higdon could go either way but I suspect he'll do well. For some reason we often make ok strikers look good.

 

Would take JOB back in a heartbeat. Likewise, the Hughes haters haven't a clue. Why does such a large section of our support always long for us to play like the pale blue bores - St J/Killie?

[Kmcalpin]

More I think about it the more I realise the impact of this signing will be determined by who else we get. We don't have a great ball deliverer from open play and from what I read and have seen he aint going to chase the aimless lump. At the moment our midfield don't create enough and that has been a season long problem.

 

Good post and very observant. Take the Cup Final - if our wingers received rotten service or none at all who would provide him with the ammunition and support if he was on his own up front? We need a box to box central midfielder to support our striker(s) and pick up second balls. Can Michael Higdon play on his own without much support from those behind him? We need a Giles Coke type of player to fulfil that role and bring out the best in Higdon. .

[Al B]

Funny you should mention him, I think we miss Giles Coke more than we realise.

 

*to clarify - I mean the Giles Coke when he applied himself. He did tend to drift away for periods of the season.

[div]

Higdon will score you goals, but if you are expecting them to be headers from wide delivery then think again, he is actually quite poor in the air for a big guy, which is mainly because he doesn't actually jump for the ball.

 

You will find all this out for yourselves, but for Higdon to thrive he actually needs the ball to his feet in the box, then he will do some damage.

[Motherwell89]

No ones really filled the huge space uncle phill left in midfield, that's what we are missing imo

[mfc]

Good post and very observant. Take the Cup Final - if our wingers received rotten service or none at all who would provide him with the ammunition and support if he was on his own up front? We need a box to box central midfielder to support our striker(s) and pick up second balls. Can Michael Higdon play on his own without much support from those behind him? We need a Giles Coke type of player to fulfil that role and bring out the best in Higdon. .

 

 

agreed mate a midfielder who gets forward and supports the strikers is a must as you say take the cup final team even if humphrey was putting loads of quality crosses into the box we wouldve had 2 players in the box at best sutton and murphy and it would be vice versa if murphy was crossing it.if the opposition can keep our wide men quiet then we have no goal threat coming from midfield if mccall cant get a attacking midfielder in then a left winger is a must and move murphy through the middle and let him run at teams fae the central area as well as playing off higdon

[Al B]

That should be fine, 95% of the time when Humphrey hits a cross, the only place it's not going, is right onto someones forehead.

 

Dislaimer - I do really like The Hump.

[Finlay]

I'm not overly joyed but I'm not exactly gutted by the signing. I'll probably have a bit of a better opinion come the New Year. Not convinced he is a better player than Sutton (Jim Jeffries obviously doesn't think so either as he would have had the choice) and I'm not convinced McCall would have traded him for Higdon. However, he is our player now and I don't suppose that aspect of it matters.

 

His frustratingly jammy winner aside (one of the lowest moments of the season for me....terrible defeat) I also, IIRC, recall a useless, overly aggressive, constantly moaning and fouling performance against us at NSP last November where he was sent off a LOT later than he should have been. I think he walked with about 10 minutes to go but could have been away in the first half if I remember right. One thing the players have at Motherwell is a solid disciplinary record. We haven't had many sendings off per season in the last 4 or so campaigns. That style of play won't cut it and I hope he doesn't bring that with him. Accusations of being unfit, not motivated, and little workrate, I don't have enough knowledge on him to comment but needless to say that will definately not fly.

 

I wish him the best and would be happy for him to head off for a decent Championship side this time next year. That will mean he has been a success at Motherwell, McCall's first proper signing was a hit, and we get a wedge of cash from a player that cost us heehaw.

[weeyin]

Accusations of being unfit, not motivated, and little workrate, I don't have enough knowledge on him to comment but needless to say that will definately not fly.

 

Did the Oldham fans not tells us that about Porter when we signed him? I can't imagine McCall letting anyone away with being unfit and not putting a shift in, but no doubt we'll see in good time.

[Al B]

One thing the players have at Motherwell is a solid disciplinary record. We haven't had many sendings off per season in the last 4 or so campaigns.

 

Exactly, and we get bullied to fuck for it. Our attitude may win us a healthy disciplinary record, but it loses us about 9 - 12 points a season. If, at various points of the season Michael Higdon picks up bookings for battering into Gary Kenneth and Martin Canning and putting them on their arse, I will be a happy, happy man.

[Finlay]

Did the Oldham fans not tells us that about Porter when we signed him? I can't imagine McCall letting anyone away with being unfit and not putting a shift in, but no doubt we'll see in good time.

 

I'd certainly hope not. Although look at McGarry and Paterson under Malpas and the same two players under McGhee. Not for a second comparing McCall to Malpas....that is being reserved for Danny Lennon. Sorry div

 

One thing about Sutton was his workrate was 100% and it can be hard at times for even some sections of our support to criticize a player when it is obvious the effort he is putting in. Although different players, albeit probably with similar styles, I'll be expecting the same level of committment from Higdon and it is McCall's job to get it from him. If it doesn't happen then both are at fault in my opinion.

[Finlay]

Exactly, and we get bullied to fuck for it. Our attitude may win us a healthy disciplinary record, but it loses us about 9 - 12 points a season. If, at various points of the season Michael Higdon picks up bookings for battering into Gary Kenneth and Martin Canning and knocking them on their arse, I will be a happy, happy man.

 

I won't. Not if he is getting sent off/suspended. Using your example he was playing in a St Mirren side that only avoided relegation by finishing above one of the worst footballing sides in the history of the SPL so I'm far from convinced by your "9-12 points a season" statistic.

[Kmcalpin]

No ones really filled the huge space uncle phill left in midfield, that's what we are missing imo

 

Aye, midfield is all about finding the right blend. Although the three of them are slightly different, Jennings, Lasley and Hately are all basically defensive/holding midfielders lacking in pace who are rightly cautious about advancing too far or or too fast in case they have to retreat a fair old distance. This leaves the lone front man in a 4-5-1 formation very isolated and overly dependent on the wingers for service.

[Al B]

I won't. Not if he is getting sent off/suspended. Using your example he was playing in a St Mirren side that only avoided relegation by finishing above one of the worst footballing sides in the history of the SPL so I'm far from convinced by your "9-12 points a season" statistic.

 

We struggle and lose points against the Hamiltons and St Mirrens of the league because we don't have the physicality to go toe to toe with them. We sit and watch Murphy and Humphrey, and even Sutton, get barged off the ball in and around the box because when we go shoulder to shoulder with physical players, we're as well just handing them the ball.

 

On the other hand, is Michael Higdon going to fall on his hoop every time he tries to get round Ross Tokely? No, he's going to play with a "move, you big bald cunt" attitude...and we badly lack that, and it costs us points.

 

You're right, St Mirren maybe did only survive due to the shiteness of Hamilton, but the points they did win sure as hell weren't against the Rangers/Celtics/Hearts of the league. The ones they did win (and consequently where Higdon got his goals) were against those very types of teams that we struggle against because they are shite, but big and powerful...and we're built like a high school team.

[Joeboy]

I think his signing cushions the blow of losing Sutton. When you look at statistics he only scored two goals less than Sutton last year and I'd imagine that was from far less games as St. Mirren didn't have that long a run in either cup and weren't in Europe.

 

As much as I would never have faulted Sutton's application or attitude as a Motherwell player, his last six months have been far better than any other spell and I don't think he will be as big a loss as some are making out. Chris Porter was a better player in my opinion and we didn't suffer too much from losing him.

 

Ultimately, if both were available on a free transfer and one signed for Motherwell and one left Motherwell that would tell you who was rated higher. Realistically, Sutton left us due to money and if we were expecting to sign a player better than him to replace him, surely he would be getting offered the same or more money by someone?

 

We have replaced him with a player who scored more goals in the league than him last year in a struggling side, which I don't think we can complain about. If three years down the line, Higdon has scored forty three goals and he leaves, I'm sure the same conversation will take place! Good but replacable.

 

It is very rare we find a "Motherwell" level player, a la Stephen Craigan, and after three years service it is more than likely a player will join a bigger or smaller club.

[Finlay]

We struggle and lose points against the Hamiltons and St Mirrens of the league because we don't have the physicality to go toe to toe with them. We sit and watch Murphy and Humphrey, and even Sutton, get barged off the ball in and around the box because when we go shoulder to shoulder with physical players, we're as well just handing them the ball.

 

On the other hand, is Michael Higdon going to fall on his hoop every time he tries to get round Ross Tokely? St Mirren maybe didn't win many points, but they ones they did win (and consequently where Higdon got his goals) were against those very types of teams.

 

But the two teams you mentioned are the two that were placed in 11th and 12th. Rather than trying to match their aggression and having that 'type' of player in our team I am more than content having decent football players that have better results over the course of the season and finish in the top six. Something Accies and St Mirren have never achieved.

 

Randolph, Hammell, Hutchinson, Lasley, Jennings, even Forbes from Aberdeen away onwards, aren't going to be anybody's pushover. We will always drop points to teams like St Mirren and Accies but if the bigger picture has been similar to the last 3 seasons then I'll take that lack of physicality any day of the week.

 

What we need is Higdon not only to score goals against Killie, ICT, St Mirren and so on but even more importantly Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure what his record against these two are.....but Sutton's wasn't the shabbiest and that was what probably got him his move.

[Al B]

But the two teams you mentioned are the two that were placed in 11th and 12th. Rather than trying to match their aggression and having that 'type' of player in our team I am more than content having decent football players that have better results over the course of the season and finish in the top six. Something Accies and St Mirren have never achieved.

 

Randolph, Hammell, Hutchinson, Lasley, Jennings, even Forbes from Aberdeen onwards away, aren't going to be anybody's pushover. We will always drop points to teams like St Mirren and Accies but if the bigger picture has been similar to the last 3 seasons then I'll take that lack of physicality any day of the week.

 

What we need is Higdon not only to score goals against Killie, ICT, St Mirren and so on but even more importantly Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure what his record against these two are.....but Sutton's wasn't the shabbiest and that was what probably got him his move.

 

Im not talking about trying to emulate them...im talking about having it in our Arsenal to be able to beat them. We have a team full of players who can play so it's not like im saying we should stoop to their level, im talking about the difference between Murphy getting the ball 20 yards from goal with Martin Canning in front of him, and shitting the bed......and Michael Higdon getting the ball in the same position.

 

With regard to the second part in bold, it couldn't be less important to score goals against Rangers and Celtic. We could quite feasibly and realistically score 2 goals in every game against the Old Firm and still lose them all. Our season is defined by how we do against the other teams, and if we have no physical presence in our front line, we're writing off 2 or 3 teams from that remaining 10.

[Finlay]

Im not talking about trying to emulate them...im talking about having it in our Arsenal to be able to beat them. We have a team full of players who can play so it's not like im saying we should stoop to their level, im talking about the difference between Murphy getting the ball 20 yards from goal with Martin Canning in front of him, and shitting the bed......and Michael Higdon getting the ball in the same position.

 

With regard to the second part in bold, it couldn't be less important to score goals against Rangers and Celtic. We could quite feasibly and realistically score 2 goals in every game against the Old Firm and still lose them all. Our season is defined by how we do against the other teams, and if we have no physical presence in our front line, we're writing off 2 or 3 teams from that remaining 10.

 

Yet we cannae be doing too bad against the so called poorer teams in the league when we have finished 3rd, 7th, 5th, and 6th in the last four seasons. Recently, I do not think we have had a major problem with ANY team outside of the Old Firm regardless of their playing style. We have traded wins and losses with the lot of them, had an upper hand over a few (Aberdeen, Hearts at Tynecastle, Dun Utd in the Cup, even Rangers at home for about 3 years)and now and again a team has been able to pick us off at times (Accies, Killie, and Hibs on occasion). At no time though are we consistently coming up against two or three teams from the remaining ten and consistently getting nowt. That would include last season even if you don't think we had a physical presence up front.