Al B Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Just to clarify, deliberate handball isn't an automatic booking unless it's to directly gain an advantage, which is at the ref's discretion. Craigan actually and deliberately used his hand to knock the ball out of the path of someone... if Jenno (?) hadn't been in the way this should and would have been an automatic booking (although why the linesman didn't flag I have no idea). He probably looked at Majstorovic's and thought if the ball doesn't hit his hand it goes over his head and bounces into space...Majstorovic still has control of the ball and either clears or knocks it back to the keeper. Free kick correctly awarded for handball, but was to gain no real advantage so no booking. Sorry folks, but the ref got that one spot on. Thought his tackle on Lasley could have easily been a red on another day however. Sure he had an identical one on Sutton as well? Seen them given for that plenty times so for two that were both shin-high, i'd say he should have been off. Haven't seen Lasley's tackle yet so cant comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Just to clarify, deliberate handball isn't an automatic booking unless it's to directly gain an advantage, which is at the ref's discretion. Craigan actually and deliberately used his hand to knock the ball out of the path of someone... if Jenno (?) hadn't been in the way this should and would have been an automatic booking (although why the linesman didn't flag I have no idea). He probably looked at Majstorovic's and thought if the ball doesn't hit his hand it goes over his head and bounces into space...Majstorovic still has control of the ball and either clears or knocks it back to the keeper. The question is, though, why did Majstorovic do it if he wasn't attempting to gain advantage? Why wouldn't he just have let the ball drift harmlessly out of play? Seems like he thought there was somebody behind him when there wasn't, in which case he was deliberately attempting to stop somebody from reaching the ball, even though he was mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickoza Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Think we'll have to agree to disagree. He's an experienced international defender, who had he been sure there was no one forward of him he'd have let the ball go. Clearly he thought we had someone forward and deliberately handled the ball therby gaining an advantage. The Ref must have thought there was only one possible explanation to handle the ball but bottled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Seems like he thought there was somebody behind him when there wasn't, in which case he was deliberately attempting to stop somebody from reaching the ball, even though he was mistaken. Spot on. The cheeky beggar thought Sutton was through on goal, otherwise why did he handle it?. Definite yellow card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 The question is, though, why did Majstorovic do it if he wasn't attempting to gain advantage? Why wouldn't he just have let the ball drift harmlessly out of play? Seems like he thought there was somebody behind him when there wasn't, in which case he was deliberately attempting to stop somebody from reaching the ball, even though he was mistaken. Maybe, but the handball rules of the game can't legislate for whether a player may or may not know. They go by what the referee can see, and in this case there was no-one near him. If the ball had gone over his head it would have merely bounced and then been cleared...so the referee quite rightly gave the free kick and no booking. Like I say though both his tackles were at least a booking (you could argue either of them being a straight red) so he should still have walked, and the ref made a huge error there. Think we'll have to agree to disagree. He's an experienced international defender, who had he been sure there was no one forward of him he'd have let the ball go. Clearly he thought we had someone forward and deliberately handled the ball therby gaining an advantage. The Ref must have thought there was only one possible explanation to handle the ball but bottled it. Mate, you can't agree to disagree over a rule. Whatever Majstorovic's thoughts or intentions were, the reality is the handball gained him no advantage, so it's not an automatic booking. You can't start making decisions based on what might have happened if our players had been in a different place. Intent only comes into the picture for dangerous play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Maybe, but the handball rules of the game can't legislate for whether a player may or may not know. They go by what the referee can see, and in this case there was no-one near him. If the ball had gone over his head it would have merely bounced and then been cleared...so the referee quite rightly gave the free kick and no booking. You learn something new every day. Assuming you are correct Al (and I have no reason to doubt you) I always thought that ball to hand was at least a yellow card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 I think it's maybe not realised because handball generally never happens when a player is so isolated that it wouldn't have any influence. It's EXTREMELY rare that a handball wouldn't have a direct effect on play, so 9.5 times out of ten results in a card by default, just because other players are so close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Didn't know that either, you learn something new every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosser1886 Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 After watching the highlights again there should have been three reds yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 The big Swede's style of leap reminded me of this famous hand ball. i'm stealing that to noise up celtic faNS ON P&B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 I feel that the referee was very weak. He's clearly decided in the morning that no reds would be shown, otherwise Lasley (Ki, by extension) and Majstorovic would have walked. In a way, I'm disappointed by that, but at least the teams stayed even, and it should have led to a more even contest. Irrelevant, being as we looked a man down from the get-go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosser1886 Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hope that's no yer mate that's typed that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Ha. That was an easy wee dig there. Nah, logging out of this when I leave it now. He's actually so little of a football fan, he texted me about an hour ago to ask if we won the cup. Saying no nearly killed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albi Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Either way I think the ref had a great game and was very fair for both teams. Discuss. No you don't. You're just looking for attention. Unless you're actually an idiot. I'd say both. The referee was inept, amateurish and an utter disgrace to the profession of refereeing. 50,000 people in Hampden yesterday saw that. You must've been doing a one man "Poznan" at the time. /Discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Maybe, but the handball rules of the game can't legislate for whether a player may or may not know. The rules can't, but the referees can. Referees have to judge all the time whether foul play was accidental or deliberate, and in this case the referee indicated that he thought it was accidental, even though everybody else could see that it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Referee's lack of bottle in conjunction with McCall's tactics made for a dire spectacle. I'll never watch the game back but I'm sure the Ref put his whistle to his mouth when Craigan stuck his arm out. I'm pretty sure he bottled it there given what he had let go previously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Thought the referee had a shocker, was too willing to blow the whistle instead of letting the game flow. Every 50/50 challenge he had to stop play and award a free kick to one team. Its a 50/50, cant you just let the winner of the ball continue play? Just because two players make contact does not mean its a foul. I suppose this is really a criticism of refereeing in general, but yesterday was particularly bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordy Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 If the ball had hit his arm at his side you could sympathise with the ref. How can a hand ball from above the defenders head not be deemed deliberate and not deemed to deny an advantage to the opposition??? Get a grip, yellow card, second yellow, makes it a red, he is off, the whole dynamic of the game changes. subsequent events do not happen. The referee shat his pants, changed the game and helped to deny us glory. He is a shitebag and will go down in history as denying us a fair crack of the whip in a Cup Final. Celtics constant whining about referees has paid off and we are the victims of that. Well done you stinking evil bastards and well done referee, I hope you sleep well because you are not going to heaven, you lied, you did not do your job and I am embarrassed to support a team in this shitey, corrupt, Old Firm arse licking country. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellarmy Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Majstorovic shouldve been sent off twice. John Suttons shinpad ends up around the other side of his leg, no shinpad = broken leg. Then his hand is ABOVE his head when he handballs it, doesnt matter what context we're looking at. Its a yellow card then the red, easy decision. The only reason Craigan wasnt sent off was because of the referees own lack of bottle before hand. I wouldve had no complaints if he had though. Lasley probably wasnt sent off because of Majstorovic's earlier assault aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 No you don't. You're just looking for attention. Unless you're actually an idiot. I'd say both. The referee was inept, amateurish and an utter disgrace to the profession of refereeing. 50,000 people in Hampden yesterday saw that. You must've been doing a one man "Poznan" at the time. /Discussion. Wind your neck in, I thought the ref was decent enough, was looking to see if anyone else agreed. Most people disagree, that's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainier Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 JPR Gordon, Rollo Kyle...Callum Murray. The better team won, no argument, but it could all have been so different. Callum's errors will not go into Motherwell folklore like the other referees listed above but his decisions influenced the course of the game and it could all have been so different. All we asked for before the game was a strong referee and we didn't get one. Sadly, we didn't get a great performance from our players either and even on a level playing field we might have been found wanting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 No matter what ref was there, or what desicions where/where not made, we never were gonna win that, the occasion got to too many of them. The ref (as shite as he was) should not be made a scapegoat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainier Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Right enough Busta. While for the most part our defensive minded players did their job we lacked creativity where it mattered. I'm not blaming the ref for our defeat. In fact I'm not even sure we could have won playing against ten men for 81 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Think that's a fair point Busts. End if the day, we offered next to nothing in an attacking sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 aye it was poor, Ref was fucking balls and I'm fed up arguing with folk that there is not a chance that useless swedish knob never meant to catch that baw. give ourselves a wee months break and start again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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