john_M_F_C Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Lets be honest Fir park is not the best, 4 stands all different sizes, seats in the POD that were state of the art in 1950 ffs, dodgy toilets in the East Stand, poor catering facilities, no car parking, a suspect pitch, limited scope to utilise the stadium for other commercial activities. Yes its time to move on 4 different stands, it's the UK's general stadium layout, look at the designs for the new Liverpool stadiums, they wanted to incorporate that part of British stadium design. As for Ravenscraig being a chance to build an asset for the community... Yes this is a great point, lets serve the local community by moving the stadium out of town, away from the community, away from the vast number of fans who walk to the stadium. Something we can all be proud of eh, a soulless concrete oval, oh but with a sports bar and good catering inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 4 different stands, it's the UK's general stadium layout, look at the designs for the new Liverpool stadiums, they wanted to incorporate that part of British stadium design. As for Ravenscraig being a chance to build an asset for the community... Yes this is a great point, lets serve the local community by moving the stadium out of town, away from the community, away from the vast number of fans who walk to the stadium. Something we can all be proud of eh, a soulless concrete oval, oh but with a sports bar and good catering inside. Why do people get all emotional when there is talk of moving from Fir park ? Its about improving the facilities, not just for the paying public, but for the team as well, better facilities means more revenue oportunities, which means more money for the club, ie one more step on the road to financial security and more funding to develop and possibly but better players. And the last time i checked the Craig site is still in Motherwell, so given the choice of a souless concrete oval with good catering and bars, or an out of date stadium, crap seats, and ocasinally wading through streams of pish then a move to the Craig gets my vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 give me a run down fir park over a brand new lego effort any day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Why do people get all emotional when there is talk of moving from Fir park ? A few random reasons off the top of my head a) we see Fir Park as being an integral part of the club's history and spent many happy years there b) we have seen the lego/flatpack stadiums built elsewhere and think they are crap c) we know that selling the land Fir Park is built on is likely to leave us a few million short of funding a new ground ie one more step on the road to financial security Have you seen a business plan, because right now I don't see where the financial security would come from. Only more debt. Once I see the new stadium plans, and the financial projections, I might start supporting it. Right now, all I can see is a crap ground with tiny plastic seats, no elbow room and, possibly, plastic grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 a soulless concrete oval, oh but with a sports bar and good catering inside. If a stadium is souless then there is only one group to blame. The fans. The fans make a stadium. TBH I couldn't give a fuck what it looked like, it could be four grass banks for all I care. Fir Park though, not because of the way it looks or that is dead. Costs far too much to maintain, money that could be spent on much better and useful things. We need to be careful though, no point building other revenue streams as they don't always work. Livingston did it - lost money, Kilmarnock did it - lost money. Nor should we move until the SPL see sense and allow synthetic pitches - would save, and in the end make us more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 If a stadium is souless then there is only one group to blame. The fans. The fans make a stadium. Terracing makes a stadium. It's no coincidence that the noise levels began to fall as soon as the wee plastic seats were introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 It would seem I'm not in such a minority when it comes to preferring Fir Park over a new build in a 'new' town. I see it as inevitable that we'll move sadly, but I won't lend my support to it. I question the predicted 'revenue streams' we'd generate, how much more corporate space can we sell than we already do. It's pie in the sky just now, my hope is it stays that way and we find a way to upgrade Fir Park sufficiently. If there is a will for that to happen it can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_M_F_C Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Why do people get all emotional when there is talk of moving from Fir park ? Its about improving the facilities, not just for the paying public, but for the team as well, better facilities means more revenue oportunities, which means more money for the club, ie one more step on the road to financial security and more funding to develop and possibly but better players. And the last time i checked the Craig site is still in Motherwell, so given the choice of a souless concrete oval with good catering and bars, or an out of date stadium, crap seats, and ocasinally wading through streams of pish then a move to the Craig gets my vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 how much more corporate space can we sell than we already do. I guess it depends on how much we got, and how many partners are willing to get involved. But if all things go to plan I think the big lot are... A Night Club A Sports and Function Suite A Hotel Conference Suite Office Block If Synthetic pitches are available then.... 7 days a week use of the pitch meaning less rent going out somewhere else U19's/U17's ability to use the pitch too - again less money going elsewhere. Rent of the pitch to Joe Public No Undersoil heating Saying that, if we were abloe to bulldoze Fir Park for the most part and re-build on the very spot then great, but it isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I guess it depends on how much we got, and how many partners are willing to get involved. But if all things go to plan I think the big lot are... A Night Club A Sports and Function Suite A Hotel Conference Suite Office Block If we sell Fir Park, we won't have sufficient funds to build a new stadium. How will we finance those extras? Answer - it's more likely that we will be renting space from the council. A big step backwards in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_M_F_C Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I guess it depends on how much we got, and how many partners are willing to get involved. But if all things go to plan I think the big lot are... A Night Club A Sports and Function Suite A Hotel Conference Suite Office Block If Synthetic pitches are available then.... 7 days a week use of the pitch meaning less rent going out somewhere else U19's/U17's ability to use the pitch too - again less money going elsewhere. Rent of the pitch to Joe Public No Undersoil heating Saying that, if we were abloe to bulldoze Fir Park for the most part and re-build on the very spot then great, but it isn't going to happen. All this at Ravenscraig? A night club relies on bars and good late night transport links near by otherwise folk won't go, what with Mega Bar and the Palace locally are people going to go up there? A function suite makes a decent turn if its booked out, I imagine the club make a sum from their suites already. A hotel? really? Offices? there's already an office block on Airbles road empty, where are Motherwell going to magic up some tenants for a new facility. We should stick an artificial pitch on Fir park, AaFK had one, didn't look like a struggle for the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris*Kaizer 2*Nunn Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I would totally love a Motherwell theme nightclub! Dougie Arnott pulling the pints it would be amazing. Sadly it would probibly only me who would go to said nightclub At least i could always crash at the hotel though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well_Jaggy Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 lets say you lived in an old house that your family had been in for around 100 years. It looks a bit odd as it's not fully finished since some neighbours at the time complained about the plans, so your family stopped building part way through. over the years new bits have been added though, so its a bit of a mish-mash of styles. it's not aging well, the roof leaks, your kitchen needs replaced, your bathroom needs replaced, and your garden needs a complete make-over every year, but with your income, you can't really afford it. If you are lucky, you might have enough cash to spend on some luxuries like food. on the other hand, your family have lived there for generations. you grew up there and have many happy memories. Your home is "quirky" and "unique", perhaps that has a certain charm to it. So the question then if it were YOU, and this was your home, would you think of selling your family home and creating a new modern living for your family, or would you continue to slog it out where you are? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 To me, that makes it sound so obvious that it borders on not even sounding like a serious question. Move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 To me, that makes it sound so obvious that it borders on not even sounding like a serious question. Move. In this economic climate, I'd find a struggling builder to cut me a deal on some renovation work and stay put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 To me, that makes it sound so obvious that it borders on not even sounding like a serious question. Move. You're right, it's not a serious question but to me the obvious answer is stay. Look back at the previous posts and it's a no brainer, night clubs, hotels etc. Like I said before pie in the sky, all of them been tried and proved not to work. We're a (relatively small) football club, not a hotel chain or leisure complex management so all the periphery shite is oot the windae IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I was at a game on Wednesday night in an all seater stadium with 52000 and the noise was deafening did not let up from KO till FT...so to say there is NO atmosphere at all seater stadiums is BS...there is also bars in the ground (and unlike Celtic fans you don't get pished and arrested) and tonight there is another game at the same stadium with another sell out crowd...that is two different codes of football RL & RU and when the real fitba re starts next season there will be big crowds also. This is http://www.suncorpstadium.com.au/ BTW, the clubs don't own the ground. Transport is second to none you buy your ticket at a ticatek outlet/online your ticket also gives you free travel on trains and buses to and from the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Of course you will get more noise if there is 52000 inside the ground rather than 4000. However, I guarantee that if 26000 of those people were allowed to stand, they would generate *more* noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_M_F_C Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I was at a game on Wednesday night in an all seater stadium with 52000 and the noise was deafening did not let up from KO till FT...so to say there is NO atmosphere at all seater stadiums is BS...there is also bars in the ground (and unlike Celtic fans you don't get pished and arrested) and tonight there is another game at the same stadium with another sell out crowd...that is two different codes of football RL & RU and when the real fitba re starts next season there will be big crowds also. This is http://www.suncorpstadium.com.au/ BTW, the clubs don't own the ground. Transport is second to none you buy your ticket at a ticatek outlet/online your ticket also gives you free travel on trains and buses to and from the game. Was at Aalesunds v Neath and Molde v Aalesunds. 2 pretty small stadiums, one full one less than half full, Aalesunds have a group as did Molde trying to make noise, fans were generally receptive to the groups over there. Next to no stewards and even less police nobody bitching about them being "wee fannies" on the internet, thats what get an atmosphere going. The clubs don't own the ground- do they need to over there? not franchise based? Transport thing? they do it in Germany, I don't know if I've said it on here before, but copy the German model, its the best way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 What German model, the model that TV money and sponsorship is the single most important thing to club making money, leading them to have lower than expected prices for entry? OK, if you can find a sponsor that is willing to give us millions in sponsorship a year, and a TV company willing to give us even more in TV money every year then I'm sure the club will look into it. Or are you talking about the safe standing? Since the safe standing is actually have the option to sit down, and places like Hampden can have 25-30,000 people standing shows you, you don't need safe standing areas to allow standing to happen. All Scottish Football needs for allowing fans to stand is an understanding between the fans, stewards and police - as it does happen in this country rather well on the International Front. Germany is a horrible comparison for Scottish Football - as is Norway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadywellToi Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Germany is a horrible comparison for Scottish Football - as is Norway. I didn't take from the comments before they were comparing us to those two countries, more listing aspects of the fans experience in those countries we would do well to emulate. A move from FP is among some of the most emotive subjects we'll ever cover. I would hope that the experiences learned from what other clubs have done and where they have made mistakes would be taken into consideration if we did get to the planning stage. Like everything though, seeing something and then actually implementing it don't always go hand in hand. Also, the nonsense about Ravenscraig being a new town, outside the Motherwell boundary, come on, really? Carfin to the NW, Jerviston to the W, North of the Calder, Orbiston and Flemington. The stadium would likely be the other side of the Dalzell plate mill, not really that much more distance than FP is from the cross. Of course they will be overheads and maintenance bills at a new stadium, but if designed correctly and combined with the recency of construction, you would think there would be a significant saving there. Well Jaggy's post puts a lot of things into perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 What German model, the model that TV money and sponsorship is the single most important thing to club making money, leading them to have lower than expected prices for entry? OK, if you can find a sponsor that is willing to give us millions in sponsorship a year, and a TV company willing to give us even more in TV money every year then I'm sure the club will look into it. The clubs could take current sponsorship money and TV money and use it to help lower the existing prices. All that would need to happen is to cut player's salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 You think we could lower our wages even more and still be even semi-competitive at any level of Europe? How far do you want us to go down? We're already out muscled by countries of our size and 3rd, 4th, 5th level clubs in the bigger leagues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_M_F_C Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 What German model, the model that TV money and sponsorship is the single most important thing to club making money, leading them to have lower than expected prices for entry? OK, if you can find a sponsor that is willing to give us millions in sponsorship a year, and a TV company willing to give us even more in TV money every year then I'm sure the club will look into it. Or are you talking about the safe standing? Since the safe standing is actually have the option to sit down, and places like Hampden can have 25-30,000 people standing shows you, you don't need safe standing areas to allow standing to happen. We don't need safe standing, we need a terrace. A place solely for those wishing to stand, with the lowered maintenance costs of broken seats etc. All Scottish Football needs for allowing fans to stand is an understanding between the fans, stewards and police - as it does happen in this country rather well on the International Front. Germany is a horrible comparison for Scottish Football - as is Norway. Will people shut up about safe standing? AaFK do not have safe standing, Odense did not have safe standing and I'm sure alot of the german teams(I know St Pauli are one) do not have safe standing. They have terracing. Safe standing is a specific installation to turn in to an all seater stadium for UEFA sanctioned games that don't allow it. As for the German model I mean tickets covering public transport to games, affordable ticketing, the encouragement of the youth to football and the understanding to let fans get a little rowdy and noisy. It only happens on the national front because any behavior is all but excused if your in a kilt and a retro scotland jersey. Police are too scared to deal will 50,000 like minded fans. A real standing comparison I'd make would be England, some League 1 and League 2 teams will have average attendances similar to us, and terracing will be perfectly ok, but because our team is in the top division we need to sit down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyslappy Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Am undecided, but if we did move it would be crucial that we got a fixed fee deal. No ballooning costs from say 5 mill to 12 (like the trams) and the building company would also be fined if they were late in delivering and guaranteed there work for 10 years or so. Now where did I put that euro lottery ticket..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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