DosserJoe Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 The Locos committee had a waiting list in excess of 500 for any returned tickets and so would probably have taken returns if sufficient advance notice was given. there was a lot of disappointed people who could not get to this unique match.Lets say 200 fans have unused tickets. Surely the Well could afford to give them a refund? £3 grand compared with the £15 grand they were willing to shelve out for the balloon? Please guys dinny come lookin to a HFL club at grass root football for a handout. Motherwell tried to return tickets the DAY after the 1st postponment - notice enough? MFC's fault? No - It's the SFA's. They should take a percentage of each gate pool to cover for this eventuallity. Football is a nothing without fans. I doubt many of those out of pocket will pay for a 4th round away again at this time of the year? As for the baloon. That will fund itself with an increased attendance on a saturday home vie as opposed to a midweek game in the next round. A risk worth taking by the club to get the game on. Probably not enough to allow them to have the cash to pay the out-of-pocket fans. Worth considering this - did the Loco's take the stubs off everyones ticket? I have lost count of the amount of times at an all ticket game I've no had ma stub taken off ma ticket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 expecting a refund after the event has taken place is a little bit ridiculous, wouldn't happen for any other event But, for most other events, you wouldn't find out the event is actually on about 6 hours before! When a concert is cancelled, the date is announced a considerable time in advance, so this gives you time to take a ticket back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Our group of 7 has taken a hit for £105 and none of us made the game. We'll live with it, not ideal, but we'll live with it. Now there may be communication issues here, I can't comment. What is clear to me is that MFC may have tried to do our fans a favour here without the co-operation of either the SFA or Locos. It backfired obviously. I've found myself in this situation before from the other side and learnt to my cost that when a favour goes wrong you get no thanks. Moral of the story - do no-one any favours and give them the minimum standard of service that you can guarantee. Have I learnt this lesson - no. I still try to do my best over and above what is required. What would you rather have A) The club trying its best and making a mistake or B) Simply saying to the customer/fan No No No. Certainly with the latter favours don't go wrong. The old adage comes to mind - "If you don't want to make a mistake then don't do anything, just do nothing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well_Jaggy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Kmcalpin - I think - and I could be worng - that the issue here isn't so much that the club tried and it backfired, but the fact that they said they would refund "for a few days after" then changed their mind without announcing it. I am sure if they said something along the lines of 'although we know we don't have to offer a refund, we will for anyone who can make it to the club by 4:30 on tuesday the 3rd' now, I know that would probably still annoy some folk as the old "but I live x miles away and someone who lives closer gets the benefit and i don't" brigade would come out, but it would at least be consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 But, for most other events, you wouldn't find out the event is actually on about 6 hours before! When a concert is cancelled, the date is announced a considerable time in advance, so this gives you time to take a ticket back. NO! the date of the game was announced at least 5 (five!) days before it took place some people seem to forget that and I'll bet some that are arguing were quite happy to hold onto their ticket thinking it wouldn't be played and they would get to use it on Saturday. They could have made arrangements during those five days to return the tickets for a refund They only people that have any argument here with the club are the ones that were told directly that they could return them today or tomorrow, not the ones that were just holding onto tickets to see what panned out they took the risk of having an unused ticket. KMCalpin is right the club have tried to extend their level of service, unfortunately its backfired, sounds like his group were holding out for a Thursday or Saturday game at their own risk Welljaggy did you get told or did you read anywhere official of this return after the game policy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I have a ticket up the stairs. I went to work yesterday with the intention of going to Inverurie but after it took 2 1/2 hours to get from Hamilton to the Gyle I decided that going to Inverurie was quite frankly a shit idea. Seeing as the club had no chance of resale I never expected a refund would be available - I decided to keep my ticket last week in case it was postponed to this week knowing if it went ahead I would lose out. General rule of thumb is you can return beforehand when there is a chance or resale if postponed, not afterwards. Thats on just about every ticket I have up the stairs apart from the Inverurie one. Annoying but no complaints. That said it never crossed my mind to ask for a refund and therefore wasn't given wrong information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DosserJoe Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Brazilian - game was called off 4 times and the worst snow for 16 years was forecast. I don't think it is reasonable to say people are daft for not asking for a refund in advance. Small communication issue on behalf of our club? Yes. MAJOR let down from the SFA for not stepping in to look after us fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Joe, I'm in no way saying people are daft I just think some who would never have expected a refund have been swayed by internet chat and are having a pop at the club. something thats levelled at me often enough. If fans couldn't make the scheduled monday night fixture they should have returned their tickets in the five day window, now be honest with yourself if you had a ticket and after the call offs, chances are you would have held onto to it ,as wel,l lets be honest its shouldn't have went ahead last night. If anyone did hold onto their ticket thinking it wouldn't go ahead, well imho that s their choice and as such they have no complaint. If they spoke with the club employee who was giving out the incorrect info or they spojke with an employee who was relaying information that they had been told to that was later reversed then they and they only have an argument here. I appreciate others might feel hard done by and that £15 would make a dent in mnay peoples budget but my thoughts are that if they were not going to go on Monday and they didn't want to risk losing the cash they should have returned the ticket prior to the game. just my opinion mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DosserJoe Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Aye Brazilian your spot on with the assesment that folk will just jump on the bandwaggon to have a pop at the club on here. Messageboarditis! Only good thing is it raises awareness when it's discussed on here for the club to take it up with the SFA for solutions for us - the long suffering fans! Mind you, I wasn't out of pocket - was sitting nice and cozy in my hotel watching the official web-site minute by minute - fun times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DosserJoe Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Oh and can anyone confirm if my above point is maybe correct. Did anyone who went up NOT get their ticket stub ripped off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I can see both sides. The club were originally refunding tickets, as there was demand for unused tickets (thats how we got ours). They didnt have to do this, normally they maybe wouldn't, and to be fair not many clubs would. The other side of the coin is, that the driving conditions were terrible, and forecast to deteriorate. People would be reluctant to drive in that weather, as it was genuinely not safe! Not to mention the fact that there was always a poissibility the game could be called off later in the day, or you could be stranded somewhere on the way home. The game went ahead (against the odds) at the 5th attempt, some people will have taken a gamble that it would be off, and held on to their tickets, others were misinformed or for the same reasons they couldn't get to inverurie, couldn't get to FP for a refund. I think i due to the series of circumstances, a refund or a gesture (entry on saturday?) would have been the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Oh and can anyone confirm if my above point is maybe correct. Did anyone who went up NOT get their ticket stub ripped off? I was hoping to keep mine, as I'd heard before we left that a refund would be given today! But they seemed to be taking them all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Why should normal business rules NOT apply to football There were 4 bloody postponements for this match and the night it was played was THE worst days weather in some considerable time. In FACT it was only by sheer luck that the game did not get cancelled right before kick off or even during the game. I congratulate every fan that still made the trip but any way you look at it it was a huge gamble that thankfully paid off for those that got up there and back home safe. From a Motherwell fans point of view it was a quite incredible decision given the weather forecast and weather warnings. Now that is not the fault of either club - you cannot change the weather. But it is hardly the fault of the fans either, many of whom myself included were fully prepared to travel on the previous 4 occasions and took half and full days and were generally out of pocket. In any other circumstances I would think I was entitled to a refund. We are being taken for granted once again. The money is not the issue here. I also read that refunds were being offered and was also told that we had up until 4pm yesterday to return tickets. We only found out at 09.30 the game was SURPRISINGLY going ahead. That is no time especially if you are working or live away from Motherwell. Honestly I think the club were caught on the hop with the decision to play yesterday but CLEARER communication should have been made available for those fans that were unable to travel to the game. It is not feckin rocket science. Communicate with your customers in a consistent, coherent and timely manner. Maybe Motherwell do not have to offer a refund, but some of us spend £000's even £0000's following Motherwell every year. To not refund a couple of hundred £15 tickets may have even longer term implications. It is just not good business practice to keep pissing off your own customers time and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Sorry but why should Motherwell refund £15 for something they were gaining probably about £4 or £5 for just because folk didn't go with no chance of recuperation. The more i think about it the more the club are right. Its an SFA competition, the gate is split between the two clubs after expenses, we have staffed selling the tickets at the crack of dawn on the Saturday between Christmas and New Year and now the administration of this. It could cost the club £2k if the 200 number quoted is correct and in this time when prudence is so necessary it makes no business sense to gift that money away. Motherwell sold the tickets for the SFA and have gone beyond the call of duty - we have no argument about trying to get a refund when the event is passed regardless of the circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Regardless of any circumstances? Even though its another Motherwell fuck up? The only reason people are pissed off is because again and certainly not the first or the last time it will happen Motherwell issued information to some fans who phoned up to equiry about the ticket return situation and got told they can do so for a few days. Motherwell went back on there word, I wouldn't give two hoots if I'd not bothered at all to return it or make an effort to contact the club, there well within their rights of doing so IF they said they would not issue refunds the FACT they did is why I am few others are extremely pissed off. What gets me is Leeanne Dempster says it was a mistake this information was handed out but, it was infact handed out by herself, this is the General Manager, by the way. Never slated the club before but, this is just another step in the direction of no common sense showed by the club, unable to issue correct information. All I ask is for Motherwell to stick to the information they give out, ain't hard is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Sorry but why should Motherwell refund £15 for something they were gaining probably about £4 or £5 for just because folk didn't go with no chance of recuperation. The more i think about it the more the club are right. Its an SFA competition, the gate is split between the two clubs after expenses, we have staffed selling the tickets at the crack of dawn on the Saturday between Christmas and New Year and now the administration of this. It could cost the club £2k if the 200 number quoted is correct and in this time when prudence is so necessary it makes no business sense to gift that money away. Motherwell sold the tickets for the SFA and have gone beyond the call of duty - we have no argument about trying to get a refund when the event is passed regardless of the circumstance. Whether the club made money from this venture is not the point in my eyes. It has made plenty money off me over the years, more even than the cost of 500 tickets x £15. The point is this. If you buy a ticket for any event say like a rock concert or a flight and it is postponed or cancelled even once and you can not make the return date, then in almost all instances you are entitled to a refund. That is especially so if you are being told that a refund is available if the ticket is returned within a certain time frame. Now my understanding (and I may well be wrong) is that Motherwell required the original ticket to send back to Inverurie as proof that they a) had not been sold or b) had been returned. I would be very surprised if Motherwell have even paid Inverurie yet or settled up their share of gate revenues and astounded if the had paid up front for the full £7500. Let us assume that in the first place we only were ever going to sell 300 tickets. Then Motherwell would send a cheque for 300 x £15 (or 50% share) and return the other 200 unsold tickets. So what is the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 'Flow Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Maybe Motherwell do not have to offer a refund, but some of us spend £000's even £0000's following Motherwell every year. To not refund a couple of hundred £15 tickets may have even longer term implications. It is just not good business practice to keep pissing off your own customers time and again. To interject quickly and just as swiftly bow out... You post and this bit in particular gives the impression that Motherwell FC has point blank refused to give refunds. In actual fact, the club have been giving refunds and re-selling tickets for nearly a month, this all on the back of Inverurie point blank refusing to budge (but MFC went ahead anyway and made several attempts to resolve the issue, even going to the SFA). The issue, as far as I can see, is a breakdown in communication somewhere between what was said on the phone and what was actually the case. I suppose all the club can do this time if that unfortunate situation has occurred is apologise to the fans affected and try and put measures in place to avoid the situation happening again. 'Flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 There were 4 bloody postponements for this match and the night it was played was THE worst days weather in some considerable time. In FACT it was only by sheer luck that the game did not get cancelled right before kick off or even during the game. I congratulate every fan that still made the trip but any way you look at it it was a huge gamble that thankfully paid off for those that got up there and back home safe. From a Motherwell fans point of view it was a quite incredible decision given the weather forecast and weather warnings. Exactly. Time after time our group made new arrangements to travel including re-arranging leave and finshing early over the past week or two. We were all prepared to travel yesterday. However the weather in Fife and Tayside was awful with whiteouts and blizzards. The BBC and Traffic Scotland websites carried severe weather warnings (for the entire east coast including Grampian) and Police requests not to travel unless absolutely necessary. On that basis we took a collective decision not to travel. A football match, however important, is not worth risking life and limb. We were astonished to learn the game was going ahead. Given the level of Police control, some would say interference, over football in Lanarkshire, I was quite convinced that their Grampian counterparts would have ordered Locos to call the game off. Not so. What is clear to me is that the safety and welfare of our fans was a secondary consideration. Just for the record, this was nothing to do with MFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well_Jaggy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Welljaggy did you get told or did you read anywhere official of this return after the game policy?Me personaly, no. but as I said in an earlier post, it doesn't affect me personally so I wasn't looking for it. I can see both sides to this, I do think though that if the clubs conditions of sale indicate that no refunds will be given then that to me is absolutley fine and folk shouldn't be looking for a refund, and the club should be applauded for helping those who have asked for a refund earlier. If they don't OR IF as others have said that there was a statement on the official site, or even people being told verbally on the phone that they could return them for a "few days" after the game then I feel that it should be honoured for those people. I think the only way to clear it up is for the T's and C's to be made readily available for anyone who wants to review them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 To interject quickly and just as swiftly bow out... You post and this bit in particular gives the impression that Motherwell FC has point blank refused to give refunds. In actual fact, the club have been giving refunds and re-selling tickets for nearly a month, this all on the back of Inverurie point blank refusing to budge (but MFC went ahead anyway and made several attempts to resolve the issue, even going to the SFA). The issue, as far as I can see, is a breakdown in communication somewhere between what was said on the phone and what was actually the case. I suppose all the club can do this time if that unfortunate situation has occurred is apologise to the fans affected and try and put measures in place to avoid the situation happening again. 'Flow Thanks for your input Flow. As always a reasoned and balanced post. On reflection my comments aimed at the club were harsh in light of the attempts made to accommodate fans for the earlier postponements. I wish to recant my earlier comments. A result of the frustration of missing a match that I had so looked forward too! But I still feel strongly that this refund policy should have stood for last nights game. To give fans only a few hours opportunity yesterday to return tickets is a tad unfair. I originally bought these tickets to go to a game back in January. Now if for some reason I was then unable to go to the original tie, then I would expect to lose out unless I was able to sell my ticket on. These however were exceptional circumstances and many 000's of Well fans were not able to go to the revised dates aftre so much looking forward to the game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCC Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 To interject quickly and just as swiftly bow out... You post and this bit in particular gives the impression that Motherwell FC has point blank refused to give refunds. In actual fact, the club have been giving refunds and re-selling tickets for nearly a month, this all on the back of Inverurie point blank refusing to budge (but MFC went ahead anyway and made several attempts to resolve the issue, even going to the SFA). The issue, as far as I can see, is a breakdown in communication somewhere between what was said on the phone and what was actually the case. I suppose all the club can do this time if that unfortunate situation has occurred is apologise to the fans affected and try and put measures in place to avoid the situation happening again. 'Flow Sorry Flow but despite your posts normally bringing some sort of sense to many issues, you are talking utter nonsense this time. MFC as a club provide an Entertainment "service" and the fans are your "customers". Good communication with your customer is essential as in any other industry and as per usual MFC are totally sh!te at getting this right and telling your customers the truth. The club told people who rang on Monday what the situation was regarding refunds and regardless of whether there is a problem with Loco's, SFA, etc.. it is the clubs responsibility to stand by what it told people. Your suggestion that the club offers an apology would be acceptable if it comes directly from Leanne and it had already happened but nothing on the front page of the website and the club has had two days to do this. We love our club but like many people I will not be treated like something the management of the club can treat like something they have just trodden on and then had to wipe of in disgust. Again and again the management at MFC have shown that they dont give a toss about us and this will be another nail in the coffin that seperates the Club from many of its longest and strongest fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 There are loads of scenarios as to what happened and the best response that the club should make. However - the tone of reaction on here to what was probably an innocent mistake. . . . . Again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCC Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 There are loads of scenarios as to what happened and the best response that the club should make. However - the tone of reaction on here to what was probably an innocent mistake. . . . . Again! Steve - totally agree with everything you say - loads or scenarios, possible responses, probably an innocent mistake!!!! Shame the club dont agree with you or feel the need to respond!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Steve - totally agree with everything you say - loads or scenarios, possible responses, probably an innocent mistake!!!! Shame the club dont agree with you or feel the need to respond!! The club did respond further up the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperCC Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 The club did respond further up the page. Sorry weeyin but can you point me to the Clubs official response!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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