TvTotherwell Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Justify nothing to them, turn the tables and ask why the majority of them sing Irish Republican songs before they get any sniff of an answer from you. One guy with a Union flag is hardly an embarrassment considering those quizzing you turn a blind eye to glorifying terrorism every week en masse, get a grip. I always give as good as i get but i will always try defend my team to the death ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I'm all for each to their own and do what you want at the game. However I went into work today to a barrage of emails about why we had the Union Jack out on Saturday. I found myself utterly embarrassed at having to explain, as a team with no affiliation to the union jack, or the colours on it, why we had it at the game. When I quoted comments from here re. "it was a wind up", i was asked will we have a Tri Colour at Ibrox? I'm now getting kinda annoyed about it. On the park we are so on a high and off the park we, on this one off occasion seem to be sinking so so low. why are you embarassed? and since when does Motherwell a team in Scotland part of the United Kingdom have no affiliation to the Union Flag why did you not just ask them why their were hunners of tri-colours in their support too many people gettin hung up on fuk all, it upset some Celtic fans good! some Motherwell fans getting upset because their Celtic fan mates are upset? have a word with yourself. can't mind all this fuss about the slovakian flag that used to cut about, seems some people need to get over their own views rather than blame it on upsetting Celtic fans used to be dozens of union flags at every Motherwell game, they have all drifted away over time, and I expect the same of the last couple unless the owners are given a challenge to bring them back out to upset the peace corp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted September 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Justify nothing to them, turn the tables and ask why the majority of them sing Irish Republican songs before they get any sniff of an answer from you. One guy with a Union flag is hardly an embarrassment considering those quizzing you turn a blind eye to glorifying terrorism every week en masse, get a grip. Christ man, is that how you would react to your friends & family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Christ man, is that how you would react to your friends & family? Fuckin' right, if any of them had the cheek to pull me up for 1 Motherwell fan with a UJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Hooper glancing over his shoulder ,see if the linesman was giving a foul? no chance of that. the linesman near us was an utter rhat. some ridiculous decisions in their favour. fair comment, however i take alot of stick from friends and entire family who are all Celtic fans, about out performances against the Rangers and our inability to turn up, so i felt a need to try and 'justify' the appearance of it poor you. why don't you email all your celtic supporting mates and ask them how they'd like motherwell fans to behave then come on here and let us know so it doesnt happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I raised this point toward the end of last season and I'll raise it again. There seem to be a number of Motherwell fans who put a great deal of emphasis on what Celtic supporters think of them and our club, so much so that they fret about the slightest thing that is likely to cause Celtic fans to turn their narrow minded 'siege mentality' on us. Frequent comments such as in the aftermath of a defeat to Rangers like 'what will the Celtic fans think of us, no wonder they call us H u n s without the fare..how can we possibly explain ourselves to them?' and now it's 'don't wave this flag, don't shout this, don't shout that, let's not offend the Celtic fans'....Do these folk REALLY care about Celtic fans opinions that much? I say fuck Celtic, fuck their supporters and fuck their opinions/persecution complex/mock outrage to everything that they don't like. We as Motherwell supporters owe them absolutely nothing, especially not any explanations or apologies or justifications for performances in games which do not involve them and most certainly not for the way our supporters behave, as let's face it, many of us know that despite what some folk would have you believe, the Celtic support are not the well behaved, fine upstanding people that they make themselves out to be, anyone who's been at a match between the sides, be it at Fir Park, Celtic Park or Hampden will probably have witnessed first hand what they can be like, with the way they behave and the things they shout or sing. Celtic fans have no right to take the moral high ground with anyone so don't let them. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 can't mind all this fuss about the slovakian flag that used to cut about, That is, always has been and always will be an utterly utterly bizarre point to make. And don't ask why....you know fine well why in relation to connotation within context. Anyway, the reason I brought this up earlier in the thread was nothing to do with the flag itself or the beliefs or opinions of individuals. If someone's into that kinda thing that's none of my business, and if someone isn't, then likewise. My point was and still is, that if a group of people are trying to change things within our support and get people on board with their singing, chanting, flags etc (which has been working exceptionally well so far this season), then you have to leave personal opinions and beliefs at home and go out of your way to make a point of being completely neutral, otherwise you can only ever appeal to people that agree with you, which defeats the point of doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmfc Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Take a tri colour to ibrox next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I dont need to ask why and am surprised you jump to a conclusion and you didnt raise the subject gary411 did about twenty posts before you you offered advice to Motherwell fans on how they could encourage others to join in the good atmosphere they are creating without alienating others, advice I agree with and would encorage them to take heed off my reply was aimed at Motherwell supporters being more concerned about how their Celtic supporting mates react and claiming that Motherwell has no association to a union flag ( the argument the beggars used to complain) so a slovakian flag is acceptable comparison on that train of thought me, you'll never catch me with a union flag but I've grown up supporting Motherwell and that was with many union flags around me in the grounds, that cannot be denied as much as personal opinions and hopes would love to deny it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Yeah, 20-odd posts previous...then the subject got changed, and then I brought it back up . Regarding the 2 different flags, you can't compare someone bringing a flag to every single Motherwell game home and away regardless of the opposition, which has no other conceivable connotation other than to show support to an extremely popular player from that country, which wasn't used once before that player signed and hasn't been seen since the player left..... To someone bringing a flag to one specific game because it's associated with the unsavoury views which are the polar opposite of the equally unsavoury views of the opposing fans, and therefore will noise them right up. Which then has the appearance of also associating you with those initial unsavoury views...but feeling it's worth the trade-off just to piss them off a bit? I'd have thought it fairly self explanatory why there is fuss kicked up about one, but not the other? For the majority of people, the second example is infuriating because for them that trade-off isn't worth it. They don't care about pissing off Celtic fans, and certainly don't care for the attached association that comes with the methods, yet they are lumped in with it whether they like it or not and have to deal with the consequences at work, in the pub, with their mates etc. Whereas the first example is a just a guy with a flag. As for anyone making the point about why should we care what the Celtic fans think? Surely the people that are taking the Union Flag etc are the ones that are worrying about what Celtic think? After all, they are the ones making specific efforts to piss them off and wind them up. The rest of the folk couldn't give two shits about Celtic or pissing their fans off, and are quite content to concentrate their efforts on Motherwell regardless of what other team happens to be there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-in-Oz Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 My question was and still is if you feel the need to fly a UJ to show your Britishness then why does it only make an appearance against Celtic? If your motivation is to "wind them up" then why no tri colour at Ibrox to wind them up? I have no concern to how Celtic fans feel or what they think of our club i just fail to understand why some of our 'fair minded' supporters think it's great to wind up one half of the OF but not the other. Answers on a postcard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 To someone bringing a flag to one specific game because it's associated with the unsavoury views which are the polar opposite of the equally unsavoury views of the opposing fans, and therefore will noise them right up. Which then has the appearance of also associating you with those initial unsavoury views...but feeling it's worth the trade-off just to piss them off a bit? see this is where you lose me you say a union flag is automatically associated with unsavoury views? to me thats a personal opinion that you are promoting, whereas Im saying that while I would never carry a union flag I can respect how many people still regard it as a symbol which represents them, particularly anyone who has ever been associated with the services and to me thats certainly not unsavoury, and yes I suspect it was a bit of poor taste that led to the flag being in the ground but I do not know that and I'm not willing to label a Motherwell supporter as a h*n just because they did take it in and I fail to see how Motherwell fans are no longer allowed to have polar opposite views of Celtic supporters, especially if you have ever had to endure the bile that comes from an element of their support. ianinoz Id guess that even if the guilty party did only take the flag in to wind up the Celtic fans then he/she does not find being associated as British as an issue since well there's a good chance they are British likewise if we had Irish 'Wellfans they would have no problem holding a tri-colour up in Ibrox a british subject holding a british flag is hardly a crime and as much as I'd never entertain it I'm not gonna lambast any Motherwell fans for doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-in-Oz Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 see this is where you lose me you say a union flag is automatically associated with unsavoury views? to me thats a personal opinion that you are promoting, whereas Im saying that while I would never carry a union flag I can respect how many people still regard it as a symbol which represents them, particularly anyone who has ever been associated with the services and to me thats certainly not unsavoury, and yes I suspect it was a bit of poor taste that led to the flag being in the ground but I do not know that and I'm not willing to label a Motherwell supporter as a h*n just because they did take it in and I fail to see how Motherwell fans are no longer allowed to have polar opposite views of Celtic supporters, especially if you have ever had to endure the bile that comes from an element of their support. ianinoz Id guess that even if the guilty party did only take the flag in to wind up the Celtic fans then he/she does not find being associated as British as an issue since well there's a good chance they are British likewise if we had Irish 'Wellfans they would have no problem holding a tri-colour up in Ibrox a british subject holding a british flag is hardly a crime and as much as I'd never entertain it I'm not gonna lambast any Motherwell fans for doing it Im not lambasting anyone im merely querying why if they feel so strongly about being British they only fly the flag against one team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted September 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 I raised this point toward the end of last season and I'll raise it again. There seem to be a number of Motherwell fans who put a great deal of emphasis on what Celtic supporters think of them and our club, so much so that they fret about the slightest thing that is likely to cause Celtic fans to turn their narrow minded 'siege mentality' on us. Frequent comments such as in the aftermath of a defeat to Rangers like 'what will the Celtic fans think of us, no wonder they call us H u n s without the fare..how can we possibly explain ourselves to them?' and now it's 'don't wave this flag, don't shout this, don't shout that, let's not offend the Celtic fans'....Do these folk REALLY care about Celtic fans opinions that much? I say fuck Celtic, fuck their supporters and fuck their opinions/persecution complex/mock outrage to everything that they don't like. We as Motherwell supporters owe them absolutely nothing, especially not any explanations or apologies or justifications for performances in games which do not involve them and most certainly not for the way our supporters behave, as let's face it, many of us know that despite what some folk would have you believe, the Celtic support are not the well behaved, fine upstanding people that they make themselves out to be, anyone who's been at a match between the sides, be it at Fir Park, Celtic Park or Hampden will probably have witnessed first hand what they can be like, with the way they behave and the things they shout or sing. Celtic fans have no right to take the moral high ground with anyone so don't let them. I'm not too sure that anyone really cares to be honest, it's simply a discussion on an internet forum. Do you think the people who are discussing the matter here actually think about it in "real life"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocelot Groomin' Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Usual pish after an Old Firm game. Some on here are drenched in 'Scotland's shame' when a vast majority of the Motherwell support do all they can to distance them selves from it. Whats to discuss? Bigots are bigots whatever stand they sit in or whatever team they support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Usual pish after an Old Firm game. Some on here are drenched in 'Scotland's shame' when a vast majority of the Motherwell support do all they can to distance them selves from it. Whats to discuss? Bigots are bigots whatever stand they sit in or whatever team they support Quite right, we shouldn't worry about what bigots think of someone holding the flag of our country. End of discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted September 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Whats to discuss? Bigots are bigots whatever stand they sit in or whatever team they support Exactly. Both clubs have their fair share of bigots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocelot Groomin' Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 smiley face - hillarious - smiley face 'discusions' with you folk determined to drag us down to the OF level are tire-ing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted September 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 smiley face - hillarious - smiley face 'discusions' with you folk determined to drag us down to the OF level are tire-ing. There's a simple answer then mate. Don't get involved in the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Exactly. Both clubs have their fair share of bigots. Are we talking both cheeks of the same erse or are we including Motherwell in this? If so I'd say you're way off the mark, we have nowhere near the bigots either of the cheeks have, not even close proportionately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted September 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Are we talking both cheeks of the same erse or are we including Motherwell in this? If so I'd say you're way off the mark, we have nowhere near the bigots either of the cheeks have, not even close proportionately. I was talking about the Old Firm, but to be honest it's also fair to say that every club has its fair share of wallopers, including ours. Of course, we don't have as many as the bigot brothers, but it could be argued that they have more because their support is bigger. It could also be argued that our wallopers can be considered on a level with Celtic & Rangers fans when the Scottish Government sees fit to call us to a meeting to discuss our detrimental effects on Scottish society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesacs Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Regarding the 2 different flags, you can't compare someone bringing a flag to every single Motherwell game home and away regardless of the opposition, which has no other conceivable connotation other than to show support to an extremely popular player from that country, I cant be arsed reading 15 pages of this, especially after we got beat! But why do we not fly this in support of Stephen Craigan??? Our magnificent captain, who has been a loyal servant to the club, most capped player and probably involved in more (motherwell related) semi final and finals than any other player Ulster Craggs!!! And if it winds those mhanky bastards up - BONUS!!!!! If I despise Celtic, and most of what they stand for - does that make me a bigot? Or does that just mean i hate Celtic fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocelot Groomin' Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 I'm no your mate. mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted September 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 I'm no your mate. mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocelot Groomin' Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 We have plenty bigots - They stick to posting on forums 99% of the time though. They got the message at FP at good few years ago. ie - take yer pish to fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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