Heavy Hands Empty Stands Campaign

[HeavyHandsEmptyStands]

Heavy Hands - Empty Stands is a campaign group formed by Motherwell FC fans to oppose the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications bill.

 

The bill is currently being rushed through parliament by the Scottish Government who earlier this year claimed that Scottish football was responsible for a rise in crimes, such as domestic abuse and sectarianism. A crime is a crime. If someone is involved in conduct which is illegal then one cannot make it even more illegal.

Let’s therefore be clear. The Scottish Government’s proposed legislation to tackle sectarianism will not therefore make any difference. There is already sufficient legislation which if properly enforced already covers all aspects of improper conduct by football fans both at and near football grounds.

 

Legislation which is hastily derived for what is perceived as a current major problem is invariably rushed, ill-founded and not properly thought out and does not achieve the desired result. Indeed such legislation inevitably fails and will criminalise many people. Whilst not actually addressing the fundamental underlying issues.

 

As Motherwell fans we have witnessed and endured the sectarianism of the Old Firm for decades with nothing being actually done to address it. We should not however be tarred with the same brush and these laws if implemented will simply cause for football fans immeasurable problems due to their vagueness and draconian nature.

 

These proposals will affect all football fans and should be resisted by us all. The consequences will simply hammer a further nail in the coffin of football fans who simply try to enjoy themselves in the spectacle that is football and who do not deserve to be vilified for it.

 

The Heavy Hands Empty Stands campaign will set out to protect Motherwell supporters and fight this bill. We will not allow law abiding football fans to be criminalised and we urge all supporters of Motherwell Football Club to back our campaign. More information on the campaign will be available in the coming weeks. For now you can find us at: http://www.facebook.com/heavyhandsemptystands#!/heavyhandsemptystands and heavyhandsemptystands@hotmail.co.uk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brazilian]

nope been staring at it for ages and still cannae work out wtf the clenched fist says

[The_Craig]

FREEDOM does it not?

[the fox]

While some good points i need to know what this lot intend doing to combat bigotry /sectarianism make no mistake this is not going away nor should it.

[Rocky']

There Is laws and legislation in place allready to combat these issue's the number of arrests made for sectarian breach of the peace I allready quite substantial.

The bill this is against is not needed and is only going to criminalise your normal fan, this bill will give any Individual police person to arrest you if they feel you have said or done anything remotely offensive. Simply put it gives he police power to arrest you based on their own opinion.

 

I don't think there is any doubt we are against sectarianism and bigotry but this law will be used more freely in situations where the crowd is smaller and individuals can e more easily singled out ie everywhere apart from an old firm crowd which it is meant to target!

 

They will make arrests at every smaller club for minimal disturbances if that because it is easier an builds up their statitistics which will then be used and manipulated to prove this is working.

 

We are not going to let Motherwell fans be victims of a political propaganda.

[Yabba's Turd]

I was just thinking that we really need another fan's group.

This one has a cool logo and no fleece required

[Yir Elder]

Count me in! Have 'liked' the facebook page too, this is a very important issue, and one which will impact upon clubs like us more than the main perpetrators.

[steelboy]

this bill makes anyone who goes to the football a second class citizen.

 

well done to the guys who have set this up.

[Kmcalpin]

This story is running on the Supporters Trust website. What is going on? Is this a Trust initiative?

 

All very odd.

[HeavyHandsEmptyStands]

This story is running on the Supporters Trust website. What is going on? Is this a Trust initiative?

 

All very odd.

 

The campaign is a Motherwell supporters campaign. We have been in contact with the Motherwell Supporters Trust who are backing our actions and we have also contact the Supporters Advisory Committee and we await their response.

 

Keep the feedback coming on here, Facebook and via email. There will be some information in the next issue of One Step Beyond and details coming very soon about some events and other actions.

[Ocelot Groomin']

So a law (possibly hurried, time will tell) intended to fight sectarianism in Scotland & the Well fans are meant to be against it????

 

Spell out how this will be used against us?

[du_du_dubordeaux]

I think it's a catch 22 mate. If nothing is done as regards to the law and how we deal with sectarianism then it will stay the same as it is the now. But if this bill goes through you can bet your bottom dollar that this will have a bigger effect on clubs like Motherwell where the will start lifting the guy that gives the fingers to the away fans. It will encompass far more than just sectarianism. It all smells of a political PR stunt from the SNP tbh. But low crowds = easier targets so effectively it could be worse for us. We know that polis and stewards enjoy a bit of power.

[Rocky']

Think about it.

Have you ever shouted at a ref, an opposition player/manager your own players managers?

 

Ever sang a light hearted song at the opposition support?

 

Fancy 5years in jail for doing so because 1 individual copper deems it in his OPINION offensive?

 

It's disproportionate and unecceasary, law abiding football fans are allready treated far worse than Joe public this new bill is only going to make things worse.

[Rocky']

This story is running on the Supporters Trust website. What is going on? Is this a Trust initiative?

 

All very odd.

 

It's a combination of various groups of Motherwell fans the singing section, supporters trust, one step beyond fanzine and many others.

 

This bill needs a united opposition not just from us but every support it is going to effect.

[Ocelot Groomin']

I thought we were moving towards less polis at our games?

 

If it targets sectarian singing at any club then fine by me.

[john_M_F_C]

So a law (possibly hurried, time will tell) intended to fight sectarianism in Scotland & the Well fans are meant to be against it????

 

Spell out how this will be used against us?

 

it tackles all things that could be deemed offensive by any right minded person. It means even light hearted stuff like calling the dons sheep shaggers could land you with a criminal record. The media are calling it an anti sectarian bill, its far from a sectarian bill, it's there to make an example of football fans. This bill will see Motherwell fans end up with a record and a banning order.

[fatcalf]

So a law (possibly hurried, time will tell) intended to fight sectarianism in Scotland & the Well fans are meant to be against it????

 

Spell out how this will be used against us?

 

You need it spellt out to you?

[john_M_F_C]

I thought we were moving towards less polis at our games?

 

If it targets sectarian singing at any club then fine by me.

 

the laws exist, there's Celtic and Rangers fans all on sectarian breach right now, why make another law which makes sectarianism at the football worse than doing it on the street.

[TvTotherwell]

I wonder what Reg would say about all this? ? ?

[Ocelot Groomin']

Thats pretty conclusive stuff. Where do I sign?

[john_M_F_C]

here's a link to the bill itself for anybody interested:

 

Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications

Ocelot may be interested to read it. Show what we're really up against here.

[KirkySuperSub]

First off, I'm only posting this post on this thread as it was top of the page when I logged on, but it could have easily been posted on any one of the many recent MST, SAC, PFoJ ( )threads.

 

I actually think Leanne had a point to certain degree on the other thread, where she posted...

 

This is a call for unity; it is high time any old issues are put to the side and for the 3 organisations to merge into one, stronger and more effective group.

 

Just my opinion, but see if there was one single supporters group all pulling together in the one direction - and please excuse the shitey X-Factorism there! - it might actually be worthwhile and it might actually start to get somewhere.

 

From a personal point of view, I don't really differentiate between the various groups, the MST, the SAC and the Association (?!), and now we're trying to start up a fourth, for yet another campaign.

 

I'd suggest we're not that big a club we need FOUR different supporters groups on the go?! We only have two recognised Fans Forum websites that I'm aware of. I'm sure I'm not alone here. But perhaps if there was one single group, it might start to reach out to more people and might start to grab peoples attention and more importantly, their support.

 

Although, having seen the posts this week, I'm sure even trying to come up with a name would start an argument.

"The Motherwell Supporters Association Trust Committee Campaign"

 

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a regular pay-at-the-gate punter, our opinions stopped being relevant a while back.

[john_M_F_C]

First off, I'm only posting this post on this thread as it was top of the page when I logged on, but it could have easily been posted on any one of the many recent MST, SAC, PFoJ ( )threads.

 

I actually think Leanne had a point to certain degree on the other thread, where she posted...

 

 

 

Just my opinion, but see if there was one single supporters group all pulling together in the one direction - and please excuse the shitey X-Factorism there! - it might actually be worthwhile and it might actually start to get somewhere.

 

From a personal point of view, I don't really differentiate between the various groups, the MST, the SAC and the Association (?!), and now we're trying to start up a fourth, for yet another campaign.

 

I'd suggest we're not that big a club we need FOUR different supporters groups on the go?! We only have two recognised Fans Forum websites that I'm aware of. I'm sure I'm not alone here. But perhaps if there was one single group, it might start to reach out to more people and might start to grab peoples attention and more importantly, their support.

 

Although, having seen the posts this week, I'm sure even trying to come up with a name would start an argument.

"The Motherwell Supporters Association Trust Committee Campaign"

 

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a regular pay-at-the-gate punter, our opinions stopped being relevant a while back.

 

 

Sorry, think your way off the mark here, this campaign we have going is trying to pull all the groups together on this issue. The heavy hands empty stand initiative is looking for all supporters groups and all supporters to give it backing. We're not interested in the politics surrounding anything else on this board. We NEED this campaign at Motherwell, please don't turn it into a thread about the MST and SAC stuff.

[KirkySuperSub]

Fair enough, just calling it as I see it.

[Rocky']

As said this is campaign group actually built together by different groups within our support coming together for this one cause, we are not interested as a "group" in anything else other than opposing this bill, thy different trusts and comitee's can still do their own thing were are not wanting to become another "faction".