Gaag Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 My mates and I stood up for the whole 90 mins without so much of a word from the stewards (one was standing next to us the whole game) - most likely because we were in the back row, or because we're a bit older, or a combination of both. If it's double standards with one section of support, never mind the home fans, you can see why people are up in arms about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCDave Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I don't think anyone has mentioned one of my main gripes from Saturday, which was that the police were telling us "standing is not a crime, stand if you like" while the stewards had a different story. So who has the most authority, police or stewards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange county dosser Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I would suggest it was the fans who were standing up who caused the problem, regardless of the behaviour or attitude of the stewards had they been sitting on their arses there wouldn't have been any confrontation. Part of the stewards job is to ensure that the spectators remain seated, if you are told to sit down and refuse to comply then they can, and undoubtedly will, remove you from the ground. Coming back with, What about them in that stand over there, or, I bet you'd allow it if it were Celtic or Rangers is not an option, in fact it's just fuckin rdiculous. We DONT have standing areas at Football grounds, and until we do you need to remain seated, that's the be all and end all. Refusing to sit down when asked and being thrown out for it doesn't make you a hero or a martyr, just an idiot. coming back with the "thats the rules, so thats what you have to do" line / attitude, is all very convenient for people, who like to appear all-knowing and superior. going by your own response, you obviously believe that women should never have got the vote, and the Suffragettes were wrong to make a stance and protest, as "it was the rules that women didn't get the vote" ? you would also beleive that black Americans should not be permitted to use the same bus / school / restaurant etc as white Americans, as when they were protesting to get equal rights, "it was the rules that they were separated" ?? people like you are the very reason that nothing ever gets changed.......you have no back-bone to stand up and make your voice heard.....but love to look down your nose disapprovingly at those who do !! If everyone remains seated (like you think we all should) , then the authorities (more people with attitudes similar to yours) see no need to change from the status-quo. in all forms of communication between the Football Associations in Europe and the fans over the last few years, it has been suggested that the fans would like "standing areas" returned to the grounds........some countries have listened and acted positively (see Germany) , while others have up until very recently stuck their head in the sand hoping the problem goes away (see Scotland). Maybe now that their is actually a club with someone prepared to speak on behalf of the very people who pay their wages (well done Leeanne Dempster) , the footballing authorities might actually have to deal with the fact that the majority of supporters actually want to have the option of standing or not . out of interest.....How many things historically have ever changed without anyone challenging the rules ??? Making a stand does not "make you an idiot " as you so eloquently put it, it just shows who is prepared to try and get things changed, and who is not (see in the mirror). 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I don't think anyone has mentioned one of my main gripes from Saturday, which was that the police were telling us "standing is not a crime, stand if you like" while the stewards had a different story. So who has the most authority, police or stewards? I was under the impression as well that stewards had no right to put their hands on you and drag you out either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_M_F_C Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I was under the impression as well that stewards had no right to put their hands on you and drag you out either? after seeing a video it looks like its all "supervisors" who will all hav an SIA badge, meaning aye they can put their hands on you. They'll have called all the badge holder in to run a mock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I don't think anyone has mentioned one of my main gripes from Saturday, which was that the police were telling us "standing is not a crime, stand if you like" while the stewards had a different story. So who has the most authority, police or stewards? The stewards are employed by Aberdeen Football Club and are there to ensure the rules of AFC and the SPL are complied with. The police are there to ensure no laws are being broken. They both have authority but different criteria. If the stewards, as representatives of AFC, ask someone to leave for not complying with their rules and they then refuse to do so then the police can step in as that person has refused to leave private property when asked to do so. Similalry, if someone starts acting up in a pub or club then then the bouncers will "escort you from the premises" - I have no idea what the stewards or bouncers are legally allowed to do in terms of a hands-on approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 If the Stewards were SIA registered then you have an alternative route for Complaint. The Security Industry Authority will have a Charter which defines their obligation to resdond to Complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaststandfan Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Correct me if i'm wrong did we not have the same problem with stewards throwing out motherwell supporters from the east stand last season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Correct me if i'm wrong did we not have the same problem with stewards throwing out motherwell supporters from the east stand last season Yip, but it's my understanding the club opened up discussion with that section of the support. Can only commend the club for taking a common sense approach, hope other clubs do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 after seeing a video it looks like its all "supervisors" who will all hav an SIA badge, meaning aye they can put their hands on you. They'll have called all the badge holder in to run a mock. Cheers for the clarification, I was just wondering as much as anything. Didn't notice the SIA badges myself, but if the video says aye, then aye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 The stewards are employed by Aberdeen Football Club and are there to ensure the rules of AFC and the SPL are complied with. The police are there to ensure no laws are being broken. They both have authority but different criteria. If the stewards, as representatives of AFC, ask someone to leave for not complying with their rules and they then refuse to do so then the police can step in as that person has refused to leave private property when asked to do so. I'd be most surprised if the match commander was not involved. Unlikely that stewards would take the decision themselves to eject fans from the ground. This is a very complex issue however and the answer is to create safe standing areas. Certainly I object, and have done, to large numbers of fans standing for 90 minutes and obscuring the view of seated fans who want to sit and repeatedly ignoring requests to sit down. On the other hand I've no objection to smaller groups of fans standing for 90 minutes if they are not bothering fellow seated fans. I've a lot of time for the younger lads who have added a lot of colour, noise and atmosphere to our games this season. In the main they've gone about things in the right way. I'd say to them keep it going and I hope your numbers swell. I'd add a warning though. Because of the Aberdeen incident, the public spotlight will be on you and you'll have to act responsibly. There will be those who will want to have a go at you for whatever reason. Behave responsibly, show respect to fellow fans and you may find yourselves spearheading a growing campaign. If this groundswell gathers momentum, then at some stage clubs, politicians and the authorities will have to become involved. You'll need their support. Good to see the club showing some public support too. Aberdeen will need to look seriously at stewarding issues but that is a separate, but nonetheless very important matter in its own right. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Coming back with the Old Firm example would be "fucking ridiculous" if it weren't actually true. This isn't an opinion held by a few bitter 'Well fans because their friends got tossed out of the game against Aberdeen, it's a fact that's been proven by photographic evidence and that has been mentioned by fans of non-Old Firm clubs up & down the country. As much as you're allowed to point towards the rules, others are also allowed to point out that those same rules aren't been upheld in all instances. True or not it doesn't make it right, and that's the whole point. Do you really think that when asked to sit down by a steward and you refer him to the Celtic match a few weeks earlier when Declan was allowed to stand for the whole match, he's going to say "Aye yer right, I suppose there is a precedent there, carry on standing" get fucking real. Have you ever tried reasoning with a steward? Your only option is to sit down, nothing else is going to work. You start arguing the toss and you're out on your ear and even the dumbest twat should know that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 With standing areas in mind, perhaps the authorities should consider issuing standing licences to season ticket supporters. These licences can be issued upon completion of a satisfactory physical test of being able to stand as well as a written theory test about standing. Perhaps an advanced test on gravity can be undertaken for those who prove to be experts at standing. Sadly, Pay At The Gate customers will have to prove they can stand for 90 minutes without gravity affecting them before being able to enter the ground. Of course, the tests will have to be done before the change of each season. Just because you can stand without incident in the July sunshine (!!) doesn't necessarily mean you will be able to undertake such a task in much trickier rain and ice situations. Should these tests prove acceptable to Health and Safety experts perhaps we can then think about licenses entitling folks to walk or even to drink hot bovril without burning yourself. It should be noted that these licenses - as an added bonus to you, the consumer - will also enable you to enter concerts and to stand in queues at the shops, bus stations, train stations, airports and other areas without fear of being questioned by some over officious prick in a high-viz jacket. These licences, of course, should be about half the price of a Sky Sports subscription package which is available for all those who can't be arsed standing at the football, or, indeed, might not be very good at it. It is a great way of bringing in extra much-needed money to the Scottish game. Old Firm fans will, naturally, be given Advanced Licences without having to sit a test as they have already passed the more complex Walking License. [/mockery of a shambolic, idiotic situation] 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I don't think anyone has mentioned one of my main gripes from Saturday, which was that the police were telling us "standing is not a crime, stand if you like" while the stewards had a different story. So who has the most authority, police or stewards? Standing isn't a crime, but it is against the league rules. So while you can't be arrested for it, it can get the club into trouble with the football authorities. I read the regulations of the English Football Licensing Authority last night (which I believe are similar to ours). They state that if a club doesn't attempt to keep fans from standing, they reserve the right to withdraw their licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 coming back with the "thats the rules, so thats what you have to do" line / attitude, is all very convenient for people, who like to appear all-knowing and superior. going by your own response, you obviously believe that women should never have got the vote, and the Suffragettes were wrong to make a stance and protest, as "it was the rules that women didn't get the vote" ? you would also beleive that black Americans should not be permitted to use the same bus / school / restaurant etc as white Americans, as when they were protesting to get equal rights, "it was the rules that they were separated" ?? Fucking amazing how you can equate some wee ned who doesn't want to sit down at a Football match with Emily Pankhurst and Rosa Parks, (who did want to sit down but not where she was supposed to). I think you'll find the battle in both cases was against the law, UK Law and State Law respectively. I do not believe any of what you accuse me of and neither do I believe for one instant that any of those who were thrown out were doing it for altruistic reasons, so the analogy is ridiculous. The point I'm making is that the rules are there and they dont have a complaint as the stewards acted within the rules. You cant just ignore them because you dont agree with them, that's anarchy. The reason for the rule is because standing in a seated area enhances the risk of serious injury should anyone trip or fall, thus the club must, if only for the sake of their Public Liability insurance, advise you to sit down at all times. Some clubs may see that as enough to cover them if anything happens, others may try to enforce it. Hopefully Motherwell's stance will stimulate debate, but the one thing that will stop any change is the issue of finance, how much will it cost to install standing areas at grounds around the SPL? It's probably more bother than it's worth for most clubs, so don't hold your breath waiting on any changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Wellfan 2k7 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Standing isn't a crime, but it is against the league rules. So while you can't be arrested for it, it can get the club into trouble with the football authorities. I read the regulations of the English Football Licensing Authority last night (which I believe are similar to ours). They state that if a club doesn't attempt to keep fans from standing, they reserve the right to withdraw their licence. Yet, when I went to The Bolton Man U game in September, not one of the Man U fans or any of the fans around me sat the entire game. There was also Maybe 20 Stewards in the entire Stadium! There was no trouble at all at the game and the bolton fans even seemed fairly calm considering they were losing 5-0 going on thirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange county dosser Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 True or not it doesn't make it right, and that's the whole point. Do you really think that when asked to sit down by a steward and you refer him to the Celtic match a few weeks earlier when Declan was allowed to stand for the whole match, he's going to say "Aye yer right, I suppose there is a precedent there, carry on standing" get fucking real. Have you ever tried reasoning with a steward? Your only option is to sit down, nothing else is going to work. You start arguing the toss and you're out on your ear and even the dumbest twat should know that. aahhh right......since you put it like that, its all become so clear. we should all just sit down for the 90 mins because thats what some beaurocrat says we should do ???? should we not be allowed to voice opinion if it differs from that of a heirarchy that says so ??? I think its maybe yourself thats actually missing the point........the point is that it is quite obviously deemed acceptable and non-problematic when 5-6000 old Firm fans come calling to grounds all over Scotland and stand for 90 mins bouncing all over the place like a Zumba class on acid, but not for 40 or 50 fans of non OF clubs (not just Motherwell) to do the same thing ?? I'm not having a pop at you personally, but the "thats the rules and thats all their is to it" argument really is rather Draconian to say the least. if more people take a stand against what is effectively bully boy tactics / victimisation by the stewards, then the public pressure will force the authorities into changing their rules.......that is where you cant make them take notice by sitting down !<_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange county dosser Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Fucking amazing how you can equate some wee ned who doesn't want to sit down at a Football match. only highighting this to ask 1 question.... You know the guys in question personally ??....well enough to be able to class them as "neds" ??? nah...didn't think so ! ever thought of a job as a steward .....I reckon you might fit right in <_> 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_I Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'd suggest next time we travel to Aberdeen everyone in the travelling support should sit in their seat and just stay seated for the full game, that'll give the stewards no reason to bother you. You should then remain seated at the full whistle as well and stay as such because thats the rules, no standing in their stadium. Come 4.55 when they are asking you to leave, inform them we will all need to be helped out by wheelchair or the likes, standing in their ground would just be too dangerous. They have homes to go to as well you know, this is what would really hit them, not getting finished on time. Go to the game, take you seat, stay seated, while singing like, but stay seated, indeffenetly, all night if we can, sit down, sit in protest. Lets take their rules as literally as we can, see how they like it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that hat Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Can I bring my tent and a few crusties to occupy Aberdeen? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_I Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Would be a waste of money mate. If they don't allow flags, drums, singing or fun into their stadium I doubt anyone is getting in with a tent. Just bring a warm jacket and stick a couple sandwiches in the pocket and you'll get through just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous Wee Grafter Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'd suggest next time we travel to Aberdeen everyone in the travelling support should sit in their seat and just stay seated for the full game, that'll give the stewards no reason to bother you. You should then remain seated at the full whistle as well and stay as such because thats the rules, no standing in their stadium. Come 4.55 when they are asking you to leave, inform them we will all need to be helped out by wheelchair or the likes, standing in their ground would just be too dangerous. They have homes to go to as well you know, this is what would really hit them, not getting finished on time. Go to the game, take you seat, stay seated, while singing like, but stay seated, indeffenetly, all night if we can, sit down, sit in protest. Lets take their rules as literally as we can, see how they like it then. That would be comedy gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk2205 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Leanne on Talksport about an hour ago getting the message out. Spoke about safe standing, trying to attract fans to the football and a few bits an bobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Which show? Keys and Gray or Hawksbee and Jacobs? Should be on their website later then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoMaSano Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Which show? Keys and Gray or Hawksbee and Jacobs? Should be on their website later then. Was on Keys and Gray, Interview now online: http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/richard-keys-and-andy-gray/blog/2011-11-22/dempster-football-needs-do-more-fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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