Martin Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 You can't really make any official complaint if you were breaking the rules in the first place. The rule itself is the problem, it can't be enforced fairly, and causes more trouble than it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Under this new legislation can the actions of the Stewards and OB be deemed as discriminatory and offensive ? Like what Gordy has to say, and the way he put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 You state, "The main problem is that standing at the ground is against the rules and we all know that that's the case. When you buy a ticket for the game you thereby agree to abide by the rules". You then state, "As for the old firm fans standing and nothing being done that is also not right but two wrongs don't make a right as the saying goes". We have at most, 1 - 200 fans standing, they have 4 - 5,000 fans standing, the more people standing the bigger the hazard, therefore the greater the risk of an incident / accident occurring. Also, to make matters worse, from the health and safety point of view, the cellik hordes are now copying Man City and doing that ridiculous thing where they turn with backs to the game and start jumping up and down. How dangerous is that? What is done or said to the old firm fans? NOTHING. The Old Firm standing at games is an issue that must be raised, especially if our fans continue to be treated like this. It is cowardice by stewards and police to say nothing to them but pick on the supporters like ours who were ejected yesterday. Why don't the police tell old firm fans to sit down? Can anybody tell me that. Where is the Health and Safety rules, Taylor report guidelines or law then? Or is it just because there are more of them and the stewards and police are shitebags? One rule for them and one for us. It is time to boycott away games until this shite stops. Ladies and Gentlemen (and non specific Genders) we have quite possibly the most sensible post of the year. Thank you Gordy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerWoodsMFC Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Would normally have went to the game, but due to upcoming prelims I thought it best to give it a miss. But what I'm hearing from mates who did go up I'm glad I didn't go as I find it absolutely appalling. Just as Motherwell Fans organised a campaign against Heavy Handed stewarding, this happens. The Club should really make a big deal out of this as people should not be allowed to be treated in this manner. Heavy Hands=Empty Stands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert the Sailor Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 People seem to be talking a lot about common sense about this situation. Yet, logic from our side is often lacking here. The guys sat down the front, people had to move. Whatever way you look at that, thats a poor show. Whether folk were bothered by it or not, people have stated that they had to move. Stewards and police would have seen this as they are not blind, whether anyone actually complained which I doubt is another matter. But they automatically have some ammunition. The signs were there before the game with flags and drums being banned, that the H&S mob were out to show "who was boss". I also don't get the logic of paying good money to travel all the way up to Aberdeen, pay hellish prices to get in. Then when a Steward (Being an arsehole or not) asks you to sit down, at the end of the day, if he wants you to sit and wants to win the argument, he will. Regardless of anyone else standing up, if he asks you personally to sit down. You don't have a leg to stand on. If I was speeding down the motorway at 95MPH and the police stop me for speeding, I could argue with him till I'm blue in the face, that I was following 3 or 4 other cars doing the same speed or that cars are flying past us at the side of the road doing the same speed I was. At the end of the day, he stopped ME, I'm responsible for my own actions and I'm the one going to end up with a ticket, because I broke the Law (rules). By not doing as the stewards ask, you play right into their hands. They love being the "Big Man", they're looking for any excuse to man handle you out the ground and they get a kick out of it. How about taking a "common sense" approach and save yourself the hassle, be the bigger man and sit on it. The stewards are looking for confrontation... for goodness sake stop rising to it. The rules need changing, thats a given. Atmosphere in the stadiums we've visited have been great this season, it really is a shining light in a generation of dwindling support. This hasn't gone un-noticed, by media and football bosses. Supporters lobbying to the powers that be, that a noisy, family friendly atmosphere can be created that isn't doing anyone any harm and enhances the product is the way forward. Getting into skirmishes with the stewards is completely detrimental to that as it'll quickly gain the entire group a reputation that'll be hard to shake and it would give weight to any opposition. Being in my early twenties and going to the football being my absolute passion, I've enjoyed immensely joining in with the singing section at the games I can make. This view will be extremely unpopular with many on here. But a little "common sense" on both sides is needed. Arguing with people enforcing rules will get you absolutely nowhere, you need to target your argument at the people making the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Ladies and Gentlemen (and non specific Genders) we have quite possibly the most sensible post of the year. Wrong. People seem to be talking a lot about common sense about this situation. Yet, logic from our side is often lacking here. The guys sat down the front, people had to move. Whatever way you look at that, thats a poor show. Whether folk were bothered by it or not, people have stated that they had to move. Stewards and police would have seen this as they are not blind, whether anyone actually complained which I doubt is another matter. But they automatically have some ammunition. The signs were there before the game with flags and drums being banned, that the H&S mob were out to show "who was boss". I also don't get the logic of paying good money to travel all the way up to Aberdeen, pay hellish prices to get in. Then when a Steward (Being an arsehole or not) asks you to sit down, at the end of the day, if he wants you to sit and wants to win the argument, he will. Regardless of anyone else standing up, if he asks you personally to sit down. You don't have a leg to stand on. If I was speeding down the motorway at 95MPH and the police stop me for speeding, I could argue with him till I'm blue in the face, that I was following 3 or 4 other cars doing the same speed or that cars are flying past us at the side of the road doing the same speed I was. At the end of the day, he stopped ME, I'm responsible for my own actions and I'm the one going to end up with a ticket, because I broke the Law (rules). By not doing as the stewards ask, you play right into their hands. They love being the "Big Man", they're looking for any excuse to man handle you out the ground and they get a kick out of it. How about taking a "common sense" approach and save yourself the hassle, be the bigger man and sit on it. The stewards are looking for confrontation... for goodness sake stop rising to it. The rules need changing, thats a given. Atmosphere in the stadiums we've visited have been great this season, it really is a shining light in a generation of dwindling support. This hasn't gone un-noticed, by media and football bosses. Supporters lobbying to the powers that be, that a noisy, family friendly atmosphere can be created that isn't doing anyone any harm and enhances the product is the way forward. Getting into skirmishes with the stewards is completely detrimental to that as it'll quickly gain the entire group a reputation that'll be hard to shake and it would give weight to any opposition. Being in my early twenties and going to the football being my absolute passion, I've enjoyed immensely joining in with the singing section at the games I can make. This view will be extremely unpopular with many on here. But a little "common sense" on both sides is needed. Arguing with people enforcing rules will get you absolutely nowhere, you need to target your argument at the people making the rules. Ladies and Gentlemen (and non specific Genders) we have quite possibly the most sensible post of the year. This is where that should be. Oh, and i'd say the reasons behind the Motherwell fans being targeted at a game at Pittodrie are fairly obvious. It's because of the Paedo chants at the "McGhee game", and the attention that brought directly afterwards. I was at that game, and I must admit I did laugh at the time, but that doesn't take away from the fact that actions instil reputations, which then work for or against you in the future. That's what's happened here, and because of the way this weekend unfolded and some fans' reaction to Stewards trying to enforce a rule (as wrong as that rule may be...but that's not the issue), it's now going to get worse, specifically for our travelling support. It's no coincidence that the two clubs/grounds where Motherwell fans have come up against resistance this season, are the two grounds where we have been viewed negatively in recent seasons. Paedo-gate at Pittodrie, and Flare-gate at Tannadice. The rules are most definitely wrong, I 100% believe that but, "if enough of us do it then they will have to ignore it", is the wrong way to go about changing a rule. It just gives you a reputation that's caused the above two examples of being denied. And just because the stewards at most grounds are prepared to overlook certain rules, don't lose sight of the fact that it's those stewards that are the exceptions, not the ones that are enforcing them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Wrong. This is where that should be. Echoed my thoughts as I read Bert's post but I'm sure others won't see it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 For the folk that refer to us as wee guys....ye want to stop it?! We're not a "bunch of wee guys", "alcopopped filled neds" or a "bunch of wee fannies". It makes it easier for the likes of the good DR pompous ego trip to dismiss us as petulant trouble makers if they dismiss us as alchopop'd fuelled little neds. No, it's not at all. People are viewing the group as such, because however wrong the rule is...and make no mistake it is wrong, the method of "let's stand firm and do it anyway, cos it's bullshit and they can't make us", is a very youthful and naive way of dealing with a problem, so it's easy to assume that those involved are youthful and naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another number Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 back couple of pages (and page of record today talking about this. Got Leeann Dempster talking about the situation edit: cant see it on their website but that might be because my phones rubbish, maybe someone else can get a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCDave Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Daily Record Fury as Motherwell fans are ejected from Aberdeen match.. just for standing up during gameNov 21 2011 By Craig Swan MOTHERWELL chief executive Leeann Dempster fears fans are being driven away from the game by barmy rules. Fir Park's powerbroker spoke out after Well supporters were chucked out of Pittodrie for standing up during Saturday's SPL clash with Aberdeen. The Lanarkshire club have been inundated with complaints from disillusioned supporters in the wake of their 2-1 win. During the match, a number of Well fans were ejected after altercations with stewards. It is understood the problems began due to a small section of the visiting support standing up. Dempster said: "Clubs have guidelines but each club uses its own interpretation. "We are prepared, to an extent, to tolerate some things and we work to engage with the fans. I heard our fans were told not to travel to Aberdeen with any flags or any drums. "A couple of years ago Kilmarnock fans brought a load of inflatables. The stewards waded into the section and took them away and I wondered why. "What is offensive or dangerous about inflatables? It was just a bit of fun and no one else in the ground seemed to mind, yet they were confiscated. "We're asking people to come and pay money. When they've paid we're telling them they can't sing, shout, stand up or dance around. "I fear they might start to ask themselves, Why are we coming? Why am I paying money for this?" Dempster will today investigate the situation with the club's safety officer Alan Marshall and has made it clear she is no way critical of Aberdeen and will not make judgments about the treatment of her team's fans or draw any conclusions about the incidents until she is in possession of all the facts. But she knows the bandwagon for standing areas in SPL stadiums is rolling again and believes that could help the situation. Dempster has discussed the matter with the SPL's Neil Doncaster and understands inconsistency in the upholding of the rules annoys punters. Aberdeen fans contacted radio stations on Saturday night defending the Motherwell fans and claimed Old Firm supporters get away with standing at Pittodrie when others don't. Dempster said: "A couple of years ago, the debate was raised about safe-standing and a few eyes rolled, believing that this situation had already been covered and discussed. "But I think that, as the financial squeeze has come, it's changing again. Fans always ask the question about sitting down and they also get upset by it sometimes. "It's obvious that when you're talking about 4000 or 5000 people it can inflame a situation to wade in there. But that irks the supporters who then ask why they would be put out for standing up. "How are we going to tell our supporters to do something when there are occasions when it doesn't get done by others? "Of course you can't have it happen all round the ground but in certain situations there has to be a judgment call if there is no danger to safety." Dempster is convinced that making the matchday experience as enjoyable as possible for everyone is the way ahead. She said: "We have a great relationship with our supporters. There has been a bit of leeway because we encourage fans to bring their flags and drums and to make some atmosphere. "We have a group of supporters who bring masses of colour to games. "We ask them about how they want to support the team and they say by standing up, by bringing their flags and banners. "There is an understanding that if we tell them to sit down or tell them something is not acceptable they abide by those rules and we work as a group. "We have said that if some of their flags are too big to carry around, we could store them for them. We engage with these guys. "So far nothing untoward has happened and the discussions we're having with them seem to be working. We feel it's the way ahead." Motherwell Supporters Trust board member Joe Smith revealed what he witnessed at Pittodrie. He said: "About 20 of our young fans were targeted by the stewards for standing up after Motherwell scored 10 minutes into the game. "They were told to sit down and I think they did but one of them got up and started singing 'Stand up for the Motherwell' which obviously annoyed the stewards. "Five heavy-handed stewards waded in and dragged the lads out the ground kicking and screaming. It wasn't fair because hundreds of Aberdeen supporters stood up when their team scored and the stewards didn't even blink an eyelid." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_sevens Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 edit: never mind, too slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that hat Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 If that accurately reflects Leann's opinion I agree with it totally and welcome the contribution it makes to the whole Pittodrie fiasco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that hat Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Appointment made with local MSP to ask if he'll add an amendment to his Party's shit bill to ensure that it is an offence committed by the club's safety officer if the club's stewards treat one set of fans differently from another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky' Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Pleasantly surprised by the article today, It's an issue that has needed to be highlighted in this way for years I think leeann deserves massive credit for coming out publicly with this issue. Also a decent bit of reporting for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Excellent picture of me there. Haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_M_F_C Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 No, it's not at all. People are viewing the group as such, because however wrong the rule is...and make no mistake it is wrong, the method of "let's stand firm and do it anyway, cos it's bullshit and they can't make us", is a very youthful and naive way of dealing with a problem, so it's easy to assume that those involved are youthful and naive. it's not naive in the slightest, maybe smacks of youthful rebellion to some extent but there's nothing naive about standing up(literally) for something you believe in, no matter how trivial others see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Let's face it, hardly crime of the century considering what used to go on in our grounds. Way I see it stewards fear for their jobs cos in the main they aren't really needed, fitba' crowds these days are pretty tame. Cause a stooshie now and again, pick an easy target mind in case ye get hurt, bingo yer jobs safe cos there's still a need for your presence. Meanwhile when any real problems arise away and hide in a corner somewhere. Mair power to the young yins, why just adhere to stupid rules, if everyone just calmly does what they're told the rules won't change, no dialogue would take place and no chance of anything being done about it. No-one in a position of authority is going to listen to reasoned debate on any subject in fitba' from a mere fan, so their hands need forced sometimes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 it's not naive in the slightest, maybe smacks of youthful rebellion to some extent but there's nothing naive about standing up(literally) for something you believe in, no matter how trivial others see it. It is naive, however, to think that if you knowingly break the rules, you won't be turfed out. Mouthing off at stewards won't get the rule changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Mair power to the young yins, why just adhere to stupid rules, if everyone just calmly does what they're told the rules won't change, no dialogue would take place and no chance of anything being done about it. No-one in a position of authority is going to listen to reasoned debate on any subject in fitba' from a mere fan, so their hands need forced sometimes. Exactly. I live in hope that such actions eventually lead to a serious debate over the idea of standing sections at football. The harsh truth is, if everyone obeyed the rules and stayed in their seats the powers that be would point to that as an example of there being no need for such a facility at the games. As long as the fans in question are posing no threat to fellow supporters I can't really see why any right-minded fan would be against them to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 http://www.racing-metro92.com/Web_TV-63.html lots of sitting in Murrayfield on Friday night.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky' Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 It is naive, however, to think that if you knowingly break the rules, you won't be turfed out. Mouthing off at stewards won't get the rule changed. It is known all to well, if it wasn't for this campaign and what happened at pittodrie, do you think any of the points brought up in today's papers would have even been thought about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange county dosser Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 No, it's not at all. People are viewing the group as such, because however wrong the rule is...and make no mistake it is wrong, the method of "let's stand firm and do it anyway, cos it's bullshit and they can't make us", is a very youthful and naive way of dealing with a problem, so it's easy to assume that those involved are youthful and naive. not naiive in the slightest I'm afraid.......quite the opposite actually. todays media coverage alone is testament to that. Coupled with the very public backing from Leeanne Dempster and the club, I'd say that the very actions of the guys involved has proved to be the catalyst for getting some backing / clarification on what has been for years, a very grey area (and one that has not been policed in a fair or just manner). well done to all involved, and lets hope that in future fans of ALL clubs are treated with the same levels of respect (at all grounds) that seem to be reserved only for Old Firm fans at present. Heavy Hands = Empty Stands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdalli10 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 nice to see the club stand up for the most important thing about a football club = the fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 The whole problem about this issue is its"stewards" who start the problem then "Old Bill" has to sort out the shit they stir when they cant cope !!! U pay peanuts............u get monkeys !!! I would suggest it was the fans who were standing up who caused the problem, regardless of the behaviour or attitude of the stewards had they been sitting on their arses there wouldn't have been any confrontation. Part of the stewards job is to ensure that the spectators remain seated, if you are told to sit down and refuse to comply then they can, and undoubtedly will, remove you from the ground. Coming back with, What about them in that stand over there, or, I bet you'd allow it if it were Celtic or Rangers is not an option, in fact it's just fuckin rdiculous. We DONT have standing areas at Football grounds, and until we do you need to remain seated, that's the be all and end all. Refusing to sit down when asked and being thrown out for it doesn't make you a hero or a martyr, just an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Coming back with, What about them in that stand over there, or, I bet you'd allow it if it were Celtic or Rangers is not an option, in fact it's just fuckin rdiculous. Coming back with the Old Firm example would be "fucking ridiculous" if it weren't actually true. This isn't an opinion held by a few bitter 'Well fans because their friends got tossed out of the game against Aberdeen, it's a fact that's been proven by photographic evidence and that has been mentioned by fans of non-Old Firm clubs up & down the country. As much as you're allowed to point towards the rules, others are also allowed to point out that those same rules aren't been upheld in all instances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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