Brazilian Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 not seen this on here yet but have on a few other sites:supporters direct fans survey its a follow on from a previous survey about league structure, fans input etc and with the changes being steamrollered through and Mr Mcleish bumping his gums about ten teams again, it always good to have an up to date fans opinion link to supporters direct survey more details at http://www.supporters-direct.org/news/item.asp?n=14184&cat=sd_sco Suppose could be in any other football but as its specific to the leagues setup it could affect all Motherwell fans who might not look in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 not sure why they keep going on about league reconstruction they need to change how the games are played. if games are entertaining then fans will come back. They also need to look at the "system" where the rich teams just get richer. Spread the income evenly among all the teams. although the teams with larger crowds will still get more money at the gate. Some changes I would propose are ( probably too radical ) if you dont't score a goal then you get zero points. So a 0-0 game both teams get 0 points. Goals are what need to be rewarded so make it 1 point for a score draw, 2 points for a win, and a point for each goal scored. So if you get beat 4-3 you at least get 3 points. If you win 1-0 then you get 3 points. maybe an extra point for shutting out the opposition. I would have relegation/promotion playoff's each year. Top 2 and bottom 2 in knockout. When a player goes down injured the referee decides whether to stop the game or not. Then all the players can just concentrate on playing. I know everyone hates it but they need a replay booth for key incedents. All very well to recind the inverness guys red card but it made inverness play most of the game with 10 men. I would also suggest a TV program.......(since footballing/referee powers that be wil never do it ) ..... reviewing referees performances and have a league table for them, giving them ( or taking away ) points accordingly. Have a panel on with people like Hugh Dallas ( now won't that be contiversial ) and a couple of others showing cases where the officials done well and cases where they are making bad mistakes and cases where the wrong decision was reached simply because it is too hard for the officiating team to see and keep up with everything. They could then show league table for the referees each week. Might spur them on to be a bit less egotistical and certainly a lot more accountable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harrow Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Jesus, you've lived in the US too long! So two teams can play 5 games, One undefeated with 0-0's and two 1-0 wins but still end up level on points with a team who gets scudded week in week out but get a fluke 7-0 win. Goals are the biggest part of the game, but there is a lot more to football. The biggest problem is that football is no longer the national past-time it once was. There are now so many cheaper, easier and sometimes more enjoyable activities for people to partake in. Add to that the exposure of football on TV where you can now watch a better quality (well not always better, but sold as better) of football from the comfort of your own home. Cheaper entrance, safe standing and an understanding of the cost/value weighed against the product on the park (you get what you pay for) and we might get somewhere. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkySuperSub Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 not sure why they keep going on about league reconstruction they need to change how the games are played. if games are entertaining then fans will come back. They also need to look at the "system" where the rich teams just get richer. Spread the income evenly among all the teams. although the teams with larger crowds will still get more money at the gate. Some changes I would propose are ( probably too radical ) if you dont't score a goal then you get zero points. So a 0-0 game both teams get 0 points. Goals are what need to be rewarded so make it 1 point for a score draw, 2 points for a win, and a point for each goal scored. So if you get beat 4-3 you at least get 3 points. If you win 1-0 then you get 3 points. maybe an extra point for shutting out the opposition. I would have relegation/promotion playoff's each year. Top 2 and bottom 2 in knockout. When a player goes down injured the referee decides whether to stop the game or not. Then all the players can just concentrate on playing. I know everyone hates it but they need a replay booth for key incedents. All very well to recind the inverness guys red card but it made inverness play most of the game with 10 men. I would also suggest a TV program.......(since footballing/referee powers that be wil never do it ) ..... reviewing referees performances and have a league table for them, giving them ( or taking away ) points accordingly. Have a panel on with people like Hugh Dallas ( now won't that be contiversial ) and a couple of others showing cases where the officials done well and cases where they are making bad mistakes and cases where the wrong decision was reached simply because it is too hard for the officiating team to see and keep up with everything. They could then show league table for the referees each week. Might spur them on to be a bit less egotistical and certainly a lot more accountable. How about more breaks, say every fifteen minutes, to fit in more Budweiser commercials? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Certainly a very, emm, american way at looking at a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Never gonna happen like that thankfully, but don't be silly Kirky, game will stop for a minute at every break in play to get a "word from our sponsors" If, and it is a big if the point system change it will be the bonus point for x amount of goals. Or the old MLS system where they had a shoot out system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 well thanks for all the positive feedback LOL hey just some suggestions i am sure there are many things that could be done to improve the game but i thinkas one of you mentioned or hinted at, some of it is down to there are more things to choose from now rather than just football. Plus it seemed like we had more talented players back in the day before we started "coaching"youngsters. ............Anyway to keep in line with the american way of life i am off to get some coffee, donuts and tacos then come back and read all about our glorious victory today. and I have been here a long time ( 22 years ) but did attend both scottish cup finals ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shallow Dave Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Ha ha. you've got me biting now.... Do you really believe this: "if games are entertaining then fans will come back." ? A few years ago, I had a business trip to Baton Rouge/St Gabriel chemical complex and I was taken to a college baseball game, LSU versus either Nebraska state, or maybe Omaha city. I dealt with the 'hand on the heart' and the compulsory singing of the National Anthem, somewhat reluctantly of course. (This was in Bush junior times). [Note: tempted to insert a certain Smiley, here; though let's keep this thread civilised.....] I wondered at the size of the crowd, over 90,000, it was reported, considerably more than the national stadiums of both football and rugby in Scotland. This for college sport. Wow! What I couldn't deal with, though, was the utter banality of the 'sport' that was on show that day. Give me 1000 adjectives to describe the spectacle that day and 'entertaining' would not be one of them. As Iggy Pop once famously said: "Do you understand what I am saying, sir?" To balance things, I have to admit that the crayfish boil I attended immediately afterwards was 'magic darts'. Would UEFA and FIFA allow an oddball, and as others have alluded to, madcap, points system, in one of their associations just because the local environment has 'its own set of social problems' that need to be addressed? That's your rhetorical $64,000 question, I think........ The great thing about the internet is that it can broaden the mind and get into other's culture, without the need to set foot on one of those aluminium flying thingies..... I am very grateful for that, to be sure..... Oh, and I didn't travel back for the Cup Final and I didn't even see the match on TV as none of the channels were showing it in Shanghai; not even where the Sellic Fan Club drink. What exactly is your point regarding Cup Finals....... SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 ............Do you really believe this: "if games are entertaining then fans will come back." ?................. Yes, i think there is a better chance of them coming back that way than if it is not entertaining. Entertaining, meaning more goals not all the hoopla that surrounds the american sports. I am certainly not for making everyone sing the national anthem at each game and definately not for the whole " a word from our sponsors" approach. Not sure if you sang or put your hand on your heart but I know I have never done that over here altohugh I have no problem with the Americans doing that. I put forward some suggestions ( as stated initially, radical ) that are actually changes. Would they be for the better? I think so. Would they ever get close to being implemented. No. Football is not just a sport anymore it is a business. A declining business. In order to halt the decline I think it's worth looking at other businesses, sports and countries and to learn form their experiences and not be afraid to implement changes to make the business successful. From what I can tell there have been no major changes to halt the decline other than some tinkering with number of teams in the division. However I will say that it does seem like motherwell are trying to do some things differently in order to make Motherwell FC be a successful business but Scottish football has to do that as a whole entity. ..............Oh, and I didn't travel back for the Cup Final and I didn't even see the match on TV as none of the channels were showing it in Shanghai; not even where the Sellic Fan Club drink. What exactly is your point regarding Cup Finals....... No point regarding finals. Merely a comment agreeing with earlier post that I have been in america too long but regardless of how long I have been away I am proud to be a motherwell supporter and proud to tell people how much my club means to me so much so that I have travelled back from here twice just to see a football game. Literally that is what I done this year. Left here on a Thursday and was back in Texas Sunday night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shallow Dave Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Football is not just a sport anymore it is a business. A declining business. First point; I agree. Second point; not globally, not, crucially where the economic growth is; in Asia. Perhaps, in Scotland; maybe. Back to first point, let's say I like a certain restaurant, say The Thai Garden in Glasgow, and say their chef leaves and the food becomes shit. As a consumer, I have every right to walk away and eat elsewhere. Therefore, why do football clubs believe that they, as businesses, can act on a different type of 'loyalty' than other types of businesses? Maybe that's the reason, I made no attempt to return to Scotland in May? Maybe I am analysing the situation purely rationally and with no emotion whatsoever? I truly think that if you tinker with the points system, which is to solve a very localised problem, as already mentioned, UEFA and FIFA would both go: "What The Fuck?????". But, maybe not- as both of these organisations have a habit of surprising us, ha ha..... Anyway, this is what the forums are for- discussion, differences and debate. I'm not seeing the "Higdon Is Not The Answer" thread high up the board, this sunny afternoon.... And I am not going to spend too much time altering the opinions of people over 12 time zones away from me, even if we may have shared an 'ML' postcode at some time in the past.... SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 The argument about attendances is pretty simple - meaningful games, pushing for europe crowds go up towards the end of the season, decent cup run, fighting relegation you might get a bigger crowd in if there's a deciding fixture, playoffs, maybe. The thing is outside of that folks just don't turn up if there's fuck all to play for, witness bottom six fixtures if we're safe or top six if we can't catch the team above us. If we were 8th in a 16 team league and able to comfortably beat the bottom 4 who would turn up for 8th v 9th? Ten teams is too few, sixteen too many, fourteen with a top six and a bottom 8 would work. If it's too cold my old man won't attend he's quite happy to Sky Sport's News his afternoon with a cup of tea and listen to the commentary online, no doubt there are also those who stick a coupon on and have a couple of pints with what they'd pay to get into Fir Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 hadn't realised the old firm were ring fenced from being relegated just so they can have there 4 hate games each season oh how the other half lives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harrow Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Still trying to get my head round all this need to change things so radically, when in fact we can't change the audience (Scotland’s Demographics), the competition (other sports/TV/Gaming) nor our national fascination for the Old Firm which is bleeding the game dry. The idea of radically changing the points system, is ridiculous indeed, especially in one that is so flawed. Yabbas Turd is spot on about meaningful games (without the Old Firm there is an argument there would be more meaningful games). If you look at the Bundesliga, if not the best league in the world right now, its certainly one of the best. It does not have the financial backing like the EPL or La Liga. The clubs are mostly financially stable and the league isn’t overly weighed with foreign players. There are few high scoring games but the games are usually entertaining, and the league is also pretty well balanced. German football has went through the mill in recent years but has built a realistic and sustainable model. By doing little more than living within their means, sensible pricing, sensible wages. All clubs are ‘selling clubs’. The clubs also give the fans what they want both on the park and on the terraces (standing is not an issue, having a drink is no issue, and there not treated like shit, its about having fun. Stewards and police have to be mindful of that and the clubs force that point to them). We don’t need any of the glam and crazy initiatives that are applied in the US, we just need to accept what level our local football is at and create a model that is realistic and can compete against the alternatives. Motherwell are well on the way in achieving that. I’d confidently say if we ripped out the seats in the East Stand and reduced the admission, we would see a small increase in attendance (which would probably only offset the cost reduction, but its a start). However we need the SPL to drive the changes. We need to have a realistic expectation of what a success is? Its not football Manager, its not the EPL or La Liga and thank fuck its not America! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 The argument about attendances is pretty simple - meaningful games, pushing for europe crowds go up towards the end of the season, decent cup run, fighting relegation you might get a bigger crowd in if there's a deciding fixture, playoffs, maybe. The thing is outside of that folks just don't turn up if there's fuck all to play for, witness bottom six fixtures if we're safe or top six if we can't catch the team above us. If we were 8th in a 16 team league and able to comfortably beat the bottom 4 who would turn up for 8th v 9th? Ten teams is too few, sixteen too many, fourteen with a top six and a bottom 8 would work. If it's too cold my old man won't attend he's quite happy to Sky Sport's News his afternoon with a cup of tea and listen to the commentary online, no doubt there are also those who stick a coupon on and have a couple of pints with what they'd pay to get into Fir Park. The same people who turn up for it now, and who've always turned up for these games. These games tend to be the best to watch anyway, without the threat of relegation there's a freedom there which allows the team to experiment and try new things and blood new players. The fact is 10 or 12 is far too small, every season all of our teams outwith the OF are well aware of two things, One, they aren't going to win the league and Two a bad season could well see them relegated. There is very little margin for error and that's whats stifling our game. Every league needs that buffer zone, that wee band in the middle where clubs can take a breather and build for the future. There's a lot to be said for mid-table mediocrity. The punishment for relegation doesn't fit the crime, the sudden loss of TV money coupled with lower gates and lower admission prices could see some clubs forced into liquidation. At the moment every one of our clubs excepting the OF starts the season knowing relegation is a distinct possibility. Just as an example, probably the last really good Hibs side was Eddie Turnbulls team of the late 1960's and early 1970's. Hibs finished third in 1968 behind the OF, in 1969 they finished 12th, in 1970 3rd, in 1971 12th again, and then for the next five seasons it was 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd. That team in it's early years was a work in progress nowadays that progress would have been halted by relegation. That's the price we pay for 4 Old Firm matches a season, and I dont think it's worth the price. You can fill in as many surveys as you like but it wont change a thing only Sky can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 If you look at the Bundesliga, if not the best league in the world right now, its certainly one of the best. It does not have the financial backing like the EPL or La Liga. The clubs are mostly financially stable and the league isn’t overly weighed with foreign players. There are few high scoring games but the games are usually entertaining, and the league is also pretty well balanced. German football has went through the mill in recent years but has built a realistic and sustainable model. I like the Bundesliga's financial model and think it's one that the other European countries should adopt. They do, however, have the advantage of over 1 billion Euros in TV and sponsorship revenue to share between teams before the gate receipts are accounted for. They do try and keep the teams on a more equal footing though and the quote below sums up how that brings in the fans: "In the last three years of the Bundesliga we have three different cup winners and three different champions," Seifert says. "Sepp Herberger, the coach of the West German team that won the 1954 World Cup, said: 'You know why people go to the stadium? Because they don't know how it ends.'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harrow Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I like the Bundesliga's financial model and think it's one that the other European countries should adopt. They do, however, have the advantage of over 1 billion Euros in TV and sponsorship revenue to share between teams before the gate receipts are accounted for. They do try and keep the teams on a more equal footing though and the quote below sums up how that brings in the fans: "In the last three years of the Bundesliga we have three different cup winners and three different champions," Seifert says. "Sepp Herberger, the coach of the West German team that won the 1954 World Cup, said: 'You know why people go to the stadium? Because they don't know how it ends.'" Weeyin, your right enough about the TV and sponsorship that they have. Its not the money they have, its how they manage it that interests me. Thats why we have to know and accept our place' and build accordingly. And I'd never heard Seiferts comment, and that in intself ins the nail on the head to increase crowds and maintain interest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Still trying to get my head round all this need to change things so radically, when in fact we can't change the audience (Scotland's Demographics), the competition (other sports/TV/Gaming) nor our national fascination for the Old Firm which is bleeding the game dry. The idea of radically changing the points system, is ridiculous indeed, especially in one that is so flawed. Yabbas Turd is spot on about meaningful games (without the Old Firm there is an argument there would be more meaningful games). If you look at the Bundesliga, if not the best league in the world right now, its certainly one of the best. It does not have the financial backing like the EPL or La Liga. The clubs are mostly financially stable and the league isn't overly weighed with foreign players. There are few high scoring games but the games are usually entertaining, and the league is also pretty well balanced. German football has went through the mill in recent years but has built a realistic and sustainable model. By doing little more than living within their means, sensible pricing, sensible wages. All clubs are 'selling clubs'. The clubs also give the fans what they want both on the park and on the terraces (standing is not an issue, having a drink is no issue, and there not treated like shit, its about having fun. Stewards and police have to be mindful of that and the clubs force that point to them). We don't need any of the glam and crazy initiatives that are applied in the US, we just need to accept what level our local football is at and create a model that is realistic and can compete against the alternatives. Motherwell are well on the way in achieving that. I'd confidently say if we ripped out the seats in the East Stand and reduced the admission, we would see a small increase in attendance (which would probably only offset the cost reduction, but its a start). However we need the SPL to drive the changes. We need to have a realistic expectation of what a success is? Its not football Manager, its not the EPL or La Liga and thank fuck its not America! I am pretty sure no one , including me, is for introducing the "glam" from america into Scottish football and i am not sure what crazy initiatives are applied in the states. Their game is pretty much the same way as ours. 1 for a tie and 3 for a win althought they do have a play off sytem which I think is intended to make more of the games meaningful. I'll take the blame for the flawed points system. I modified a 10 point system that is flawless ( 'cause I like goals and hate 0-0 ties ) The 10 point system is a great idea used in the youth game in many countries. It stil preserves the order of magnitude of rewards for win tie and loss but rewards the same outcome with varying points depending on how many goals are scored. So if a team gets beat 4-3 at least they can take something from the game. win = 6 points ranges 8 to 10 points depending on score tie = 3 points ranges 4 to 7 points depending on score loss = 0 points ranges 0 to 3 points depending on score goal = 1 point for each goal scored up to 3 shut out = 1 point if you shut out the other team. You are right that we cannot change the audience but it would help if we could help attract some of them back. If not for financial reasons at least for improving the atmosphere and maybe enabling a reduction in the cost of admission. There are many people that like to watch football but for a variety of reasons don't go anymore. You mentioned some of those such as go back to standing areas, getting a grip on the stewards etc. Aside form the off field issues needing addressed i do believe we need to find ways to encourage attacking football and make the games more enjoyable to watch. There has been plenty of debate on here regarding winning Vs style of play. Most, if not all would prefer both. WI know we need to win in order to stay in the league or get into europe but it can be painful to say the least, watching some of those dire games where we do actually get 3 points. I am sure there are many games that were more enjoyable (as a spectacle ) when we did not win. eg 6-6 Vs hibs. So you score 6 goals, contribute to a great game but get the same 1 point as a team who "parked the bus" and subjected the crowd to a dire 0-0 tie and no enjoyment whatsoever. Your observations about the german game are very interesting so perhaps the SFA or SPL or whoever could learn someting from the Germans. They have the same pissy weather as we do in Scotland so it would appear that someting can be done without the need for summer football. Anyway, C'mon the Well!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harrow Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 By Crazy initiatives, I mean in general that seem to tag onto North American culture, across all sports and in many cases all walks of life. It’s just a different culture, which in some ways has seeped into European and other countries, but is just not accepted broadly. But that itself is a different discussion completely. The idea of the points system being a general case in point. I would ask, why change a points system, when countries like Germany can prosper without changing any of the game rules. And not just prosper, but be very successful. Changing the rules of the game like that is just window dressing. You can paint a shit any colour you want, but its still a shit. The changes have to come much deeper to make a difference. Anyway, understanding the demographics of our country, understanding what is deemed to be a successful outcome and building a model both in business and coaching terms to lead to that outcome, making the supporter feel that he is wanted (standing/better policing) and stopping the Old Firm’s bleeding of our sport would be a fine start. In fact, I haven’t looked at your new points system, but if you are rewarding on goals, you would actually make the league a hell of a lot worse. All Rangers and Celtic need to then, is add (or remove from other clubs) good strikers and the league wouldn’t be over by Christmas, it would be over by September! If you want to be radical and take a business approach. In business you will always invest to improve your weaknesses. So this should be applied in Scottish Football. The next TV deal, the vast amount of money should go to the non-OF clubs and Rangers and Celtic to take less, which would be a start to balancing the playing field. Now that would be good but never happen. By the way, I see a lot of high scoring games out here and they are shocking, to the point they are just about unwatchable, goals are not the be all and end all of our game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 By Crazy initiatives, I mean in general that seem to tag onto North American culture, across all sports and in many cases all walks of life. It's just a different culture, which in some ways has seeped into European and other countries, but is just not accepted broadly. But that itself is a different discussion completely. The idea of the points system being a general case in point. I would ask, why change a points system, when countries like Germany can prosper without changing any of the game rules. And not just prosper, but be very successful. Changing the rules of the game like that is just window dressing. You can paint a shit any colour you want, but its still a shit. The changes have to come much deeper to make a difference. Anyway, understanding the demographics of our country, understanding what is deemed to be a successful outcome and building a model both in business and coaching terms to lead to that outcome, making the supporter feel that he is wanted (standing/better policing) and stopping the Old Firm's bleeding of our sport would be a fine start. In fact, I haven't looked at your new points system, but if you are rewarding on goals, you would actually make the league a hell of a lot worse. All Rangers and Celtic need to then, is add (or remove from other clubs) good strikers and the league wouldn't be over by Christmas, it would be over by September! If you want to be radical and take a business approach. In business you will always invest to improve your weaknesses. So this should be applied in Scottish Football. The next TV deal, the vast amount of money should go to the non-OF clubs and Rangers and Celtic to take less, which would be a start to balancing the playing field. Now that would be good but never happen. By the way, I see a lot of high scoring games out here and they are shocking, to the point they are just about unwatchable, goals are not the be all and end all of our game. The league is pretty much over before it starts it's just a matter of when it is officially confirmed. I totally agree with your send last paragraph but we know that will never happen. Anythign to try and level the playing field should hopefully help towards more parity and a more competitive league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harrow Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I would say another consideration is to look at football in context of the current state of the country/global recession. I am in no way qualified to talk about the day to day living as I haven't stayed in Scotland for many years. But I would assume its like everywhere else. If that's the case, it's about survival and planning for the future. One thing I would be inclined to do would be to have someone like John Boyle involved in the SFA. Sure the guy created a lot of problem for Motherwell at the start (I would hope to think a lot of they was through, bad advice), but since then he has build a very good an sound structure, talked sense (as well as give us a laugh when possibly pissed), but most of all, in the managerial front, has made some fantastic appointments. but all in all a lot of our problems are cultural and not just football related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 i am not sure how the entrance fee, as a percentage of weekly wgaes, has changed over the years but it seems hell of a price to go watch a football game now. Especially with the state of the economy. But on the business side I am not sure who is allowing the clubs to get into so much debt. How can a team like Hearts get into 15 million pounds of debt? How did they ever realistically expect to make enough to cover that??? and he wants to sell them for 30 million??? Rangers are apparently having financial issues too but you could perhaps envisage them having some sort of chance of making some decent money. Thankfully I think Motherwell have learned their lesson and it would benefit other teams to learn from our mistakes and not have to experience the same traumatic events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harrow Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Well that's another issue itself, the greed of agents and the greed/stupidity of the players (well maybe fool hardy chairmen agreeing such terms is ruining things!). Again I'd point to Germany where every club is a selling club and don't really hide the fact. We are in throws of quite possibly will be looked back upon the worst financial crisis the world has ever known, but associations, chairmen, players, agents and at times the fans don't see this. I'd always expect a player to earn double what a laymen makes, purely because of the short career. Depending how good he is, he can earn more. But when average players walk away with the weekly wage that some are getting, football is fucked. We're quick to criticise the bank execs, but seem to not bother that a person like Sutton earns the money he does (no offence to Sutton, I'd do exactly the same as him. Anyway, I also believe the problem to be cultural, hence why I do not stay in The UK or indeed what we perseve as a 'developed country' fuck that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Some very good points and posts made in this thread in the last few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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