ONeils40yarder Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 This is getting really tedious now, 8pages going round and round in circles. Some, like me, will boo him and some won't. Nobody is going to convince me, or probably the other criminals, that I shouldn't boo him so why don't we draw a line under it until the next time we play a team with a turncoat playing for them. That'll give us a couple of days-off before Mcgeady comes to town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 99% of things that can be used to slag an opposing footballer can and will be used. The folk who are easily offended by this need to get over it. James McCarthy is in the wrong country Ross Tokely beats his wife Zander Diamond is a mutant etc 99% of things are fair game, including the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 whats the remaining 1% that is unacceptable? Just out of interest because we have all heard some pretty ridiculous shouts at the footy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 whats the remaining 1% that is unacceptable? Just out of interest because we have all heard some pretty ridiculous shouts at the footy In my view, songs about deaths are the only thing I can think of just now that is unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Aye I'd go with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Aye I'd go with that Well the way I see it, James McCarthy, regardless of cirsumstance, chose another country over that of his birth. Ross Tokely, regardless of circumstance, knocked his with about. If you're big enough to chose another country over your own or slap your wife about then you have to be big enough to take abuse for it. Folk like Diamond and Davie Dodds just had bad luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edradour Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 It's not being narrow minded, because i think my hatred is based upon intelligent and well thought principals!!! Hatred based on intelligence, that's novel. Just a pity your intelligence doesn't run to knowing the difference between principals and principles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMc Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Anyone who pretends they boo McCarthy for his ability should admit it has nothing to do with it IMO. He is a good player but one who I definately don't think is such a stand out he would be booed if he didn't pull on an Ireland top instead of a Scotland one. I think people who waste their time abusing wee boys because of their nationality are really just pathetic. Your at a game of football, enjoy it & go home. And if you do shout and ball at a 17 year old player, at least admit its because you can't accept what country he is from. Rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 In my view, songs about deaths are the only thing I can think of just now that is unacceptable. Songs about somebody's handicap are unacceptable. The songs about Dean Shields were, quite rightly, quickly shouted down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Anyone who pretends they boo McCarthy for his ability should admit it has nothing to do with it IMO. He is a good player but one who I definately don't think is such a stand out he would be booed if he didn't pull on an Ireland top instead of a Scotland one. I think people who waste their time abusing wee boys because of their nationality are really just pathetic. Your at a game of football, enjoy it & go home. And if you do shout and ball at a 17 year old player, at least admit its because you can't accept what country he is from. Rant over. Sorry, but James McCarthy was born on November 12th 1990 in Glasgow. What part of Ireland is Glasgow in again? I forget. EDIT: This is on his Wiki. McCarthy was born in Scotland and has chosen to play for the Republic of Ireland due to his Irish heritage. Partly as a result of this McCarthy has experienced playful and light hearted chants from supporters of Dundee Utd[2], Rangers[3] and Motherwell[4]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMc Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Sorry, but James McCarthy was born on November 12th 1990 in Glasgow. What part of Ireland is Glasgow in again? I forget. So you think where your born is what makes you? So if your born in London your english? If your born in Paris your French? Well I actually feel James McCarthy is Scottish. BUT many people don't have the belief; I know many people who have Italian heritage but were born in bread in the same Glasgow as James McCarhthy who class themselves as Italian. Now, personally, I think McCarthy, Aiden McGeady, & Jim O'Brien are Scottish. BUT they don't. And this is the point Im making, it is not up to me, you or anybody else to judge what country they feel loyal to. And so when people take it upon themselves to shout abuse at them, Im saying it is because they can't accept these players have chose Ireland over Scotland. Whether I think they are right or not, I don't have the right to pick for them and so I should let them get on with the football. I also think if it was Australia rather than Ireland they chose, their would be little or probably no criticisim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that hat Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Hatred based on intelligence, that's novel.Just a pity your intelligence doesn't run to knowing the difference between principals and principles. But I thought highly of my school's erudite principal, never knew his views on race relations though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 So you think where your born is what makes you? So if your born in London your english? If your born in Paris your French? Yes! If you're born in London you are English. It's that simple. Now, personally, I think McCarthy, Aiden McGeady, & Jim O'Brien are Scottish. BUT they don't. And this is the point Im making, it is not up to me, you or anybody else to judge what country they feel loyal to. If I have an opinion I'll make it, whether it's in the stand at Fir Park or on an internet forum. I can form any opinion I like and voice it as my own. Do you have a problem with that? And so when people take it upon themselves to shout abuse at them, Im saying it is because they can't accept these players have chose Ireland over Scotland. Whether I think they are right or not, I don't have the right to pick for them and so I should let them get on with the football. I also think if it was Australia rather than Ireland they chose, their would be little or probably no criticisim. Yes, you are right, that's the point. They chose another country over Scotland and in my eyes that near enough treason and unforgivable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 And if you do shout and ball at a 17 year old player, at least admit its because you can't accept what country he is from. It annoys me the focus that is put on him being "a wean", "a wee boy", "an 18 year old" etc. If he's old enough to play professional football, and he's old enough to decide which country he will represent for the rest of his career, he's old enough to take pelters from opposing fans for it. If the focus is going to be on him being a "wee laddie", maybe he should turn out for the under 19s where there won't be crowds to, rightly IMO, get stuck into him. EDIT: I also think if it was Australia rather than Ireland they chose, their would be little or probably no criticisim. Oh ok, well I think there would. What point are you trying to make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Jim O'Brien in The Evening Times He'll get slaughtered on here for that - but hey he's got my respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfinz Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Jim O'Brien: "I don't know why people have a problem with it." My take on the problem is if someone who was born in Scotland to Scottish parents decides not to represent Scotland, and instead represents another country (be it Botswana, Ireland, Northern Ireland, England or whoever) I see that as reasonable grounds to people having a difficulty with the lad! For what it's worth, I dont feel that Mr O'Brien is offering a subjective viewpoint - of course he wont see a problem, he did it too. In a similar fashion, I dont offer a subjective viewpoint, as I view it as treason! I can never understand why a Scot would not feel an unconditional attachment to our country, never mind rather be another nationality! I choose not to abuse or join in any verbals, but have no problem with others that choose to do so! I also remember Burton O'brien getting abuse for a similar thing (S.Africa) but not to the same extent, though his talent didn't stretch to the same extent as McCarthy & McGeady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that hat Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 For what it's worth, I dont feel that Mr O'Brien is offering a subjective viewpoint - of course he wont see a problem, he did it too. In a similar fashion, I dont offer a subjective viewpoint, as I view it as treason! Objective/subjective? Having preceded McCarthy by opting to play for Ireland Jim O'Brien will definitely be offering a subjective opinion on this issue, precisely the reason why he was selected to give this viewpoint. Likewise your "treason" opinion is also subjective as it is not formed with reference to facts upon which we can all agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Pacino Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Anyone who pretends they boo McCarthy for his ability should admit it has nothing to do with it IMO. He is a good player but one who I definately don't think is such a stand out he would be booed if he didn't pull on an Ireland top instead of a Scotland one. I think people who waste their time abusing wee boys because of their nationality are really just pathetic. Your at a game of football, enjoy it & go home. And if you do shout and ball at a 17 year old player, at least admit its because you can't accept what country he is from. Rant over. I didn't shout and bawl at him because of his ability or because of the country he chose to play for. I did it because he elbowed one of our players after the ball had gone out of play. Is that allowed or can he not be booed for that either because he thinks he's Irish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I didn't shout and bawl at him because of his ability or because of the country he chose to play for. I did it because he elbowed one of our players after the ball had gone out of play. Is that allowed or can he not be booed for that either because he thinks he's Irish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 He looked ready to cry at the end of the game. I enjoyed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Now, personally, I think McCarthy, Aiden McGeady, & Jim O'Brien are Scottish. BUT they don't. It doesn't actually matter whether you think McCarthy, McGeady and O'Brien are Scottish or not, the fact of the matter is they are. Football isn't actually that important, representing Ireland at a game of football doesn't suddenly make you Irish. They can respesent Ireland, Northern Ireland, France or Swaziland at anything they want, from football to chess. They are still Scottish. I also think if it was Australia rather than Ireland they chose, their would be little or probably no criticisim. I don't think anyone is naive enough to suggest that there won't be some folk who boo him because he chose Ireland, rather than because he didn't choose Scotland - but claiming there would be no criticism if it was any other country other than Ireland is utterly ridiculous. If Brian McLean was good enough to play for Scotland had he chose to, he'd also get abuse from those of us who would feel he had denied his national side his ability and don't try and pretend otherwise. I spend a large sum of money travelling Europe every year supporting my national side - if I wish to abuse some wee ned for denying my national side his potential talent (though as I said earlier, I'm fast coming to the conclusion he's over-rated and mediocre) in favour of a typical west of Scotland identity crisis, and potentially put him off his game against my club side, then I will - and for reasons that I am happy with, regardless if some folk on the internet try to pretend it's something more sinister. In summary, fuck him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 So you think where your born is what makes you? So if your born in London your english? If your born in Paris your French? Well I actually feel James McCarthy is Scottish. BUT many people don't have the belief; I know many people who have Italian heritage but were born in bread in the same Glasgow as James McCarhthy who class themselves as Italian. I know what you mean but McCarthy thinks he is Scottish and was brought up Scottish, but went in a huff because he wasn't chosen at 15 years old by Scotland. If he was brought up Irish by his parents then fair enough but the fact of the matter he wasn't. And despite what people say neither was McGeady. Where you are born does not make you nationality alone. But drinking one pint of Guiness which seems to be the only need for being Irish is a little much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I've said it before and I'll say it again. I can see Motherwell being the first club taken to task for 'racial' abuse by the football authorities. (Can I just say, before someone starts I'm not advocating that here - I'm just making the prediction) How bizarre and ironic would that be? Like in legal cases - although we all assure each other that it's not racial. It becomes difficult for the club to stand up at a hearing and convince the authorities that it isn't. Again not saying that it is - just pointing out that it might prove difficult to defend at a hearing. I'd love to see them try it, a half-decent lawyer would wipe the floor with them. "Your client, Mr McCarthy, claims to be a true Scot and a long time Scotland supporter, but isn't it a fact Sir, that most true Scots, most Scotland supporters would gladly donate limb for the privilege of pulling on the dark blue shirt and marching out at Hampden, and isn't it a fact thamt most true Scots, most Scotland supporters when approached by any other nation would answer with that weel kent two word phrase in which the second word is "off". Your client also claimed that he supported Scotland and wanted to play for Scotland but Scotland "didn't think he was good enough" so he opted for the Republic of Ireland. This true Scot, this Scotland supporter believed his nation, the nation he loves and supports had cast him on the inrternational scrapheap, AT THE AGE OF 16, his chances of a Scotland cap had passed him by, BEFORE HE HAD EVEN LEFT SCHOOL. You dont think he's been a wee bit premature here do you? I know a 52 year old man whose last game off football was a kickabout with his grandaughter in the back garden, he still sits by the phone when a squad is being named. You see, he IS a true Scot, he IS a Scotland supporter. Your client isn't and wasn't, he may think otherwise, but then agin it doesn't appear that thinking is one of your client's strongpoints, does it?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Football Club Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I had a look over at the section where the songs seemed to be coming from and I felt a bit for the lad. That moment was awesome, big Jim just seemed to go,"Thank fuck its no me thats getting it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fal_Dosser Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 If this was happening in just about any other country, I reckon it would be largely dismissed. For my own part, I couldn't give a monkey's chuff what country he decides to play for - quite simply, the lad is a very promising young player, and any opposition fans tend to pick on players who can hurt their own team, and give them abuse as a result - arguments will be made about the Irish thing, but if that wasn't the focal point, chances are, something else would be picked up on (he's a moaning faced wee shit for example), but hey, we live in the West of Scotland, so let's make it a massive issue. Players such as Lennon, Ferguson, that tit Boyd, have had dogs abuse from me in the past, not always because they are the best of players (tit Boyd again), but because they tend to do things in games that hurt my team - that's why I give abuse, it's got piss all to do with religion - I accept there will be those who latch on to this aspect, but to label a teams fans because of a few who no doubt do use the religous aspect, to my mind, is bordering on desperation for a story - also find it very strange how the Bigot brothers fans are allowed to get away with the religous bile week in, week out, and do we get this fuss, do we f... ! Football is dying on it's feet with regards to atmosphere as it is, the quicker we get beyound issues like this, the better MON RA DOSSERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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