The Well Society

[East_Stand_Al]

It seems that one of the biggest stumbling blocks in previous proposals is that everyone always wants something extra that benefits them specifically, this appears to have a broad appeal encompassing the main things clubs want, change in voting structure change in finance distribution, Leeanns words were" that the clubs generally agree on nothing" but this is pretty likely to get 11 SPL clubs to say yes.

 

 

Sounds like the SPL is basically a pissing contest.

 

 

ETA There is a suggestion that the League Cup will be moved to start earlier in the year to give a semblance of Summer Football.

Edited February 3, 2013 by East_Stand_Al

[nethertonwellfan]

The bottom line is that a number of loyal and dedicated Motherwell fans went along today with an open mind and sided with the board and the proposed changes.

 

There are so many panty wetters and doom mongers on this board it is unreal. A fair % don`t even attend games and a fair % were against the idea before actually listening to the facts and any direct implications for Motherwell FC.

 

Me - I intend continuing to support Motherwell FC what ever league we play in and whatever the structure is. Do I think it will work long term - possible not, but I am for giving it a chance. I absolutely love the comments about playing the same teams again and again. That would be different from the current structure - how??????

 

Feel free to kick off........

As a loyal and dedicated Motherwell fan who didn't turn up due to work I see no way that zeroing points half way through a season will be beneficial to Motherwell. It is for that reason I will not support this proposal. It is a totally bonkers idea, however I hope that I can attend the next open meeting and put my points across.

 

I would like to pick you up on the doom monger comment too because is that not exactly what the boards of the SPL (our club played it's part in that), SFL and SFA are guilty of? The same people who predicted a doomsday scenario if Rangers weren't accepted in to the top flight and then SFL 1? So why are we so quick to trust them now?

 

Edit : I'd like to thank all those who have summed up the meeting on these boards.

[Special aka]

Lets not forget it's the Boards of all the SPL Clubs who have steered us into this current mess. They implemented the 11-1 voting structure. They implemented the lets play each other 4 times a season scenario. They implemented the all seater stadium requirement. They employed Neil Doncaster. They embraced the disproportionate distribution of incomes.

 

IMHO the abyss is where they are steering us now.

[andalg]

Im afraid no matter what you do with Scottish football its just like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic ! If we really want Scottish football to survive we need to ditch Celtic and Rangers. They take up the bulk of the supporters for reasons that are nothing to do with football and also take up the bulk of the cash available. People say without them we we be like the Welsh or Irish leagues but is that really so bad at least it would be a relativly level playing field. Sponsors would not be so keen to chuck money at the "Glasgow giants" if they only had each other to play against and eventually money would start to flow into the Real Scottish Football League after all its the football thats important not the money is it not?

 

 

Sorry forgot to add that whatever way it goes I will still be Motherwell till I die and support the Society and the club.

[SMc]

Im afraid no matter what you do with Scottish football its just like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic ! If we really want Scottish football to survive we need to ditch Celtic and Rangers. They take up the bulk of the supporters for reasons that are nothing to do with football and also take up the bulk of the cash available. People say without them we we be like the Welsh or Irish leagues but is that really so bad at least it would be a relativly level playing field. Sponsors would not be so keen to chuck money at the "Glasgow giants" if they only had each other to play against and eventually money would start to flow into the Real Scottish Football League after all its the football thats important not the money is it not?

 

 

Sorry forgot to add that whatever way it goes I will still be Motherwell till I die and support the Society and the club.

 

Think this is the bit most people are forgetting, it's not about the politics it's about supporting your team through thick and thin, either you are a Motherwell supporter or you're not, can't have it all ways!

[weeyin]

Think this is the bit most people are forgetting, it's not about the politics it's about supporting your team through thick and thin, either you are a Motherwell supporter or you're not, can't have it all ways!

 

That's the attitude the clubs rely on in order to do whatever they like.

[Brazilian]

Think this is the bit most people are forgetting, it's not about the politics it's about supporting your team through thick and thin, either you are a Motherwell supporter or you're not, can't have it all ways!

Think if you look around you'll find a number of Motherwell supporters that are now just occasional supporters and many thousands that are just fans and even more who aren't even waiting on results coming in

 

The discussions in general are about people's concerns that the dwindling numbers of supporters is steemed to give all you diehard but blindly loyal supporters some company

[nethertonwellfan]

Think this is the bit most people are forgetting, it's not about the politics it's about supporting your team through thick and thin, either you are a Motherwell supporter or you're not, can't have it all ways!

I am 100% a Motherwell fan but that doesn't mean I'm going to spend hunreds of pounds of my hard earned cash if the club and the governing bodies fail to listen to the fans. To me supporting my team through thick and thin means what happens on the pitch to me. Win lose or draw I will support Motherwell. However, if I get the feeling that we are constantly being ignored I will stop spending as much money. Simples.

[andalg]

That's the attitude the clubs rely on in order to do whatever they like.

 

 

Supporting your club doesn't mean agreeing with everything they do . Players and officials come and go but the majority of supporters are in it for life. I joined the Well Society to put money in to the club and hopefully have some say on the direction the club takes but I do recognise that not everybody will agree with me all of the time but in the end we all want the same thing dont we?

[weeyin]

Supporting your club doesn't mean agreeing with everything they do .

 

I never said it did.

 

Players and officials come and go but the majority of supporters are in it for life. I joined the Well Society to put money in to the club and hopefully have some say on the direction the club takes but I do recognise that not everybody will agree with me all of the time but in the end we all want the same thing dont we?

 

Following a club like ours, who rarely win anything, means that what needs to be on offer is some form of entertainment. The nature of any sport means that can't be guaranteed, but there are some structures that increase that likelihood.

 

I'm still a committed fan, and support the club (and Well Society) financially when I can, but ultimately I'm a customer buying a product - albeit with somewhat unique characteristics. Part of being a fan is the habit of attending games. You don't realise (or, at least I didn't realise) how much habit and ritual play a part until you are in a situation where you can't make a game every week. If I miss the MFC TV broadcast on a Saturday because I have other commitments, I still make an effort to catch the score, but I don't feel the same loss I used to if I missed a game when I was season ticket holder.

 

When you give the fans less reason to attend, it won't be long before even more of them find other ways to entertain themselves.

[Stu]

Think this is the bit most people are forgetting, it's not about the politics it's about supporting your team through thick and thin, either you are a Motherwell supporter or you're not, can't have it all ways!

When scores more season ticket holders are driven away and the clubs raise season ticket and PATG prices up more and more to make up for the shortfall, it will be interesting to see if you're still saying that...

[Malky79]

Lets not forget it's the Boards of all the SPL Clubs who have steered us into this current mess. They implemented the 11-1 voting structure. They implemented the lets play each other 4 times a season scenario. They implemented the all seater stadium requirement. They employed Neil Doncaster. They embraced the disproportionate distribution of incomes.

 

IMHO the abyss is where they are steering us now.

 

Just to add that been playing 4 times a season all my live, since the initial Scottish Premier league started before I was born in the 70's. The SPL is pretty much responsible for the rest and more mind.

 

This proposal does seem to have some sense in among the madness of the strange split and is it confirmed bottom league of 18? I think you can sustain a top division of 18 with interest at top and bottom if the general state of the game is in good health. But if we have no pyramid system and relegation at the bottom of it then 18 in bottom division is a dreadful idea.

 

Personally I want to see most of my games on a saturday 3pm. I don't object to midweek fixtures and some rescheduling for TV if the money is worth it. I believe Norwegian league, a country with a similar population has a deal that pisses on SPL's. Seriously we should be able to do better, it's not like English football isn't an attraction on TV there either. Norway TV deal

 

Sunday 3pm is fine now and again, don't even mind any other midweek kick offs provided they flagged up least couple months in advance but there should definitely be a limit on the times what any one club is asked to move.

 

I want to see a league that has some semblance of competition. One and two horse races have been killing the game for fans and as a product for the last 25 years or more. Do all the mucking around you want if it just boils down to Rangers and Celtic we don't have a league worth the name. I know it has always been dominated by them but not since we won the league in 1932 to break a run from 1904 has there been such sustained domination.

 

The cost of games needs to come down. I can just about accept paying £20 when I walking up to Fir Park(don't think it is worth it really) but clubs need to find some way of making it cheaper for travelling fans if not all fans. Away end tickets should maybe be set at a max of 75% of what you charge home fans. I know there could be issues, would you try and pay into the south stand if it was cheaper week in week out? But if overall price can't come down something needs to be done. I enjoy away games but cost is prohibitive.

 

If the proposals lead to any meaningful change in respect of competition at top and cost I'll be surprised.

[nethertonwellfan]

Just to add that been playing 4 times a season all my live, since the initial Scottish Premier league started before I was born in the 70's. The SPL is pretty much responsible for the rest and more mind.

 

This proposal does seem to have some sense in among the madness of the strange split and is it confirmed bottom league of 18? I think you can sustain a top division of 18 with interest at top and bottom if the general state of the game is in good health. But if we have no pyramid system and relegation at the bottom of it then 18 in bottom division is a dreadful idea.

 

Personally I want to see most of my games on a saturday 3pm. I don't object to midweek fixtures and some rescheduling for TV if the money is worth it. I believe Norwegian league, a country with a similar population has a deal that pisses on SPL's. Seriously we should be able to do better, it's not like English football isn't an attraction on TV there either. Norway TV deal

 

Sunday 3pm is fine now and again, don't even mind any other midweek kick offs provided they flagged up least couple months in advance but there should definitely be a limit on the times what any one club is asked to move.

 

I want to see a league that has some semblance of competition. One and two horse races have been killing the game for fans and as a product for the last 25 years or more. Do all the mucking around you want if it just boils down to Rangers and Celtic we don't have a league worth the name. I know it has always been dominated by them but not since we won the league in 1932 to break a run from 1904 has there been such sustained domination.

 

The cost of games needs to come down. I can just about accept paying £20 when I walking up to Fir Park(don't think it is worth it really) but clubs need to find some way of making it cheaper for travelling fans if not all fans. Away end tickets should maybe be set at a max of 75% of what you charge home fans. I know there could be issues, would you try and pay into the south stand if it was cheaper week in week out? But if overall price can't come down something needs to be done. I enjoy away games but cost is prohibitive.

 

If the proposals lead to any meaningful change in respect of competition at top and cost I'll be surprised.

A pretty good post, however I think the bit highlighted would be a bit of a non starter for obvious reasons. I do think that they could and will look at subsidising

supporters buses.

[steelboy]

 

Personally I want to see most of my games on a saturday 3pm. I don't object to midweek fixtures and some rescheduling for TV if the money is worth it. I believe Norwegian league, a country with a similar population has a deal that pisses on SPL's. Seriously we should be able to do better, it's not like English football isn't an attraction on TV there either. Norway TV deal

 

 

that link suggests that they are televising all 8 games from the top league every weekend plus one game a week from the lower division making 270 live games per season compared to 60 odd here.

[Dr.Pepper]

Just to add that been playing 4 times a season all my live, since the initial Scottish Premier league started before I was born in the 70's. The SPL is pretty much responsible for the rest and more mind.

 

This proposal does seem to have some sense in among the madness of the strange split and is it confirmed bottom league of 18? I think you can sustain a top division of 18 with interest at top and bottom if the general state of the game is in good health. But if we have no pyramid system and relegation at the bottom of it then 18 in bottom division is a dreadful idea.

Personally I want to see most of my games on a saturday 3pm. I don't object to midweek fixtures and some rescheduling for TV if the money is worth it. I believe Norwegian league, a country with a similar population has a deal that pisses on SPL's. Seriously we should be able to do better, it's not like English football isn't an attraction on TV there either. Norway TV deal[/url]

 

Sunday 3pm is fine now and again, don't even mind any other midweek kick offs provided they flagged up least couple months in advance but there should definitely be a limit on the times what any one club is asked to move.

 

I want to see a league that has some semblance of competition. One and two horse races have been killing the game for fans and as a product for the last 25 years or more. Do all the mucking around you want if it just boils down to Rangers and Celtic we don't have a league worth the name. I know it has always been dominated by them but not since we won the league in 1932 to break a run from 1904 has there been such sustained domination.

 

The cost of games needs to come down. I can just about accept paying £20 when I walking up to Fir Park(don't think it is worth it really) but clubs need to find some way of making it cheaper for travelling fans if not all fans. Away end tickets should maybe be set at a max of 75% of what you charge home fans. I know there could be issues, would you try and pay into the south stand if it was cheaper week in week out? But if overall price can't come down something needs to be done. I enjoy away games but cost is prohibitive.

 

If the proposals lead to any meaningful change in respect of competition at top and cost I'll be surprised.

 

I think Norway has a bigger tv deal than scotland due to that they have more games on the tv each weekend. Up to 4 games on tv at the weekend is half of the games being played on the fixture list that weekend. Compare this to the spl and its maximum of 2 a weekend played in an early afternoon kick off. Even the English PL can sometimes have 5 games on a weekend consisting of 2 on a Saturday, 2 on Sunday and a Monday night game. The only way we may get a bigger tv deal is if more games are shown which will cause kick off times to be all over the place which supporters don't want.

 

Edit - just saw its 8 games per week sometimes but my point still stands.

[Malky79]

To be honest didn't look at the details of Norways TV deal.

 

Not sure how well that level of coverage would go down. Especially when we want fans to go to games and not just watch them on the TV. Wonder how fans in Norway will take to it. I suspect even if we offered that many games there would be little interest in buying it.

[Tweed]

If we must have the TV, which given the starting point we have I suspect we must. We should try and get Sky to use the 1720 spot they have for the Championship on a Saturday for the SPL - bearing in mind the 1245 Saturday slot frequently clashes with an EPL game I don't see the harm in having two then. And we should push ESPN to use the 1415 Sunday slot we had with St Johnstone. Neither are ideal but are much more fan friendly than 12noon or 1245 are.

[Haggischomper]

They don't give a fuck about fan friendly. They are catering to the henpecked home bodies. We're no use to them really.

[TheLip69]

Clubs like Motherwell were always going to lap this up, it's a no brainer.

The current top 6, becomes a top 8 giving a better chance of staying with the big boys. Instead of relegation for finishing last, you go into a repecharge with 4 teams from a division below you.

This stuff is manna from heaven for the likes of Motherwell, St Mirren, Kilmarnock et al.

It's entirely possible that we may have a season in which no-one is promoted from SPL2 and no-one is relegated from SPL1.

How can that be right?

How can that be football?

[Shaka]

Its entirely possible (very very likely in my view) you could have 4 or 5 seasons with no actual promotion / relegation. Disgusting!

[Frazzie]

A pretty good post, however I think the bit highlighted would be a bit of a non starter for obvious reasons. I do think that they could and will look at subsidising

supporters buses.

 

That would be a fairly pointless exercise as nobody wants to travel on supporters buses these days. I'd rather walk to Kilmarnock on Saturday.

[nethertonwellfan]

That would be a fairly pointless exercise as nobody wants to travel on supporters buses these days. I'd rather walk to Kilmarnock on Saturday.

Aye but you're talking about fans that already attend the games my point was about persuading new fans to attend away games. . The point I was respoding to was someone saying that they should maybe reduce the prices for away fans to 70% of the home PATG price. I don't believe home fans will stand for that.

 

I believe there are a good number of people out there (from all clubs) who would go to more away games but simply can't afford it. If you go to Aberdeen or Inverness you're paying at least 35-40 quid before you've even had a bite to eat and that's for one adult person and it will be even more for families. If you told them that there is a free bus, perhaps even £5 per adult and £10 for a family of 4, then it may persuade people to go. See if it could add 200 to every away gate then it would be worthwhile. I know it won't work for every club (Ross County earlier this season is a prime example) but there is nothing really to lose by giving it a bash.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Its entirely possible (very very likely in my view) you could have 4 or 5 seasons with no actual promotion / relegation. Disgusting!

 

Not to worry, there will always be a meaningless trophy up for grabs.

[Shaka]

Your right! I forgot about the masterstroke of the diet premiership trophy. Maybe we could bring back the lanarkshire cup and then when we end up in that middle split we could go for a league + cup double!

[santheman]

Your right! I forgot about the masterstroke of the diet premiership trophy. Maybe we could bring back the lanarkshire cup and then when we end up in that middle split we could go for a league + cup double!

 

I'd go for that.

Games against Accies and Airdrie actually appeals to me at this moment in time