The Well Society

[fizoxy]

Part 1 of Les Hutchison Well Society interview, apologies if posted elsewhere.

[Goggles & Flippers]

Briefly, on the subject of not having the forethought to prepare these, the focus and hard work was all on getting a deal sufficiently over the line to be able to release a statement, which initially said a bit more but had to be cut down slightly as part of the agreement on getting it out. There were a huge amount of twists and turns in this saga, and a host of different parties involved, so it was difficult to prepare anything in advance.

 

I'm not talking about an in-depth compilation of things from day 1, but something could have very feasibly written in 5 minutes and posted to give an overview and shine a light on the agreement made and most importantly done so to avoid much second guessing amongst the membership. The society has a duty to do this, we're not talking about when the next race night will be, this is fundamental to the Well Society and it's aims. You can't think the society's communication efforts in advance of Les' confidentiality agreement were beyond criticism.

 

While I respect the constraints of a confidentiality agreement I also expect a full explanation when things go public. So far I know roughly the same as a Dundee or Alloa supporter as everything has pretty much been available via public media. We have all contributed money, for a lot at the height of a recession and we deserve to be kept in the loop going forward.

 

However not to dwell. I get Les' involvement, his affinity for the area, the companies he has worked for and his daughters' soft spot. I have taken the following for everything I've read to date, can you confirm which is correct please:

 

1./ Les approached the society earlier in the year to initially gift the club an amount to take it over/close to the threshold given by JB. correct?

 

2./ The idea behind this was initially as he's a nice chap and maybe get a few season tickets out of it for his grandkids?

 

3./ As time progressed, a decision to be more involved rather than just gifting the cash transpired?

 

4./ Is Les' pledge going initially to the WS then for the WS to transfer it in exchange for JB's shareholding or to JB direct? (subject to due diligence)

 

5./ Les' actions in appointing people to the main board would suggest it's the latter, while I accept he has contributed a hefty sum, the WS was sold on one member one vote?

 

6./ Ultimately in the short term, where will JB shareholding go? (-6% already given to WS)

 

7./ What is/will be, his role within the WS?

 

8./ The planned date for the transaction of ownership?

 

9./ Is it envisaged that anything else WS related will be shrouded in secrecy or will all dealings going be conveyed in full when not compromising commercial sensitivities relating to the running of the club? (not talking about boardroom level stuff, we have to trust those appointed on this matter)

[numpty]

Part 1 of Les Hutchison Well Society interview, apologies if posted elsewhere.

In which we discover where folk who live in Barbados choose to have their holiday home...

[David]

£10 per month (that's less than 33p a day or £2.30ish per week about the price of pie at Fir Park) to be part of the club you support?

 

what is stopping you?

 

A lack of email communication is what's stopping me. I emailed the society via the form on their website but had no reply (it's only been a few days yet right enough). Does anyone know if that's the best way to contact them? Or is there a direct email I can contact?

[weeyin]

I just use: wellsociety@motherwellfc.co.uk

 

When Alison was there, she used to respond within a day or so. Katie McCrossan took over from Alison I believe, but I have no reason to doubt she will be just as quick.

[superward]

wellsociety@motherwellfc.co.uk

 

It's in the text above the form on the site.

[fizoxy]

When I contacted them via their web form the reply went to my spam folder (Gmail) so you might want to check that.

 

Whoever the tech guy is for the society might want to look into that too.

[fizoxy]

They actually replied to me within the day, and were just as quick with my follow up questions.

[David]

Cheers folks, I'll fire off an email to the address you've given.

[Raoul_Duke]

Looks like the Argentine Consortium has turned their attention to St Mirren.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30542556

 

I for one am pretty glad we dodged that particular bullet.

[superward]

A good communication from the Well Society, part 1 - confirming some details, at a high level, around the deal with Les in regards how works ownership in the short term, the loan element explained a little more and what it means moving forward. Part 2 to come.

 

http://www.thewellsociety.co.uk/category/news/

[Busta Nut]

Have a listen to Brian McCafferty on the ByTheMinMFC podcast, good guy with the right intentions.

 

The society clearly want to do the right thing, I honestly don't think there is any other option anyway!

[Goggles & Flippers]

First of all, I’d like to thank everyone for their incredible patience throughout an extremely complex and at many times fraught negotiating process.

I will explain in more detail in a further message why we were unable to reveal more information but even now our communications are constrained by certain issues which could hamper our chances of success – the statement that went out last Friday had to be agreed and amended by a number of different parties, partly for legal reasons.

 

There are also details of the deal which have yet to be finalised and some of the financial details which will not be released until a deal is done. But I will try to put over all the details that affect Well Society members.

 

THE DEAL

We are not being asked to do anything different. We have to raise money in order to assume ownership of the club – but without Les Hutchison’s generous interest-free loan to the club we would not still have the chance. The £1.5million figure is now redundant – this was based on a safety net for a bold but nevertheless high-risk business plan which will not be continued after the club lost close to £1million in the last three seasons.

 

There is no set figure now but we have raised more than £500,000 in three years and will likely need to raise a similar amount again in the next five years. But hopefully more – the more we get the better-placed we will be to take the club on.

 

The deal, if we can push it through, would work like this. Les puts in an interest-free loan and takes control of the club during the period of transition to full fan-ownership. But it is very much a partnership and Les has stated that the Well Society chairperson will also chair the club board.

 

We have committed to helping out in the first couple of years with some of the money already raised until hopefully the club becomes financially self-sufficient. After that we have committed to helping the club pay back the loan to Les if it cannot meet the budgeted repayments.

 

The ideal scenario is that the club is doing well enough to make these payments and that all of our money is going towards a safety net for the future. But we have made a commitment to supplementing the loan repayments if needed and must honour this.

 

Again, the details need to be finalised but if we do not make the payments then ultimately we could miss the chance to assume control of the club as planned.

 

Our payments will be in the form of an unsecured loan so that if we fall short then we can get the money back once Les has recouped his loan.

 

Les is not looking to make a penny from the deal, indeed he has already spent his own money on legal fees and flying Alan Burrows to Barbados above and beyond the loan. He also loses out on the considerable interest he would have received if he invested his money elsewhere.

 

So we have to take responsibility for repaying his loan if needed – that is why we must keep raising money and contributing.

 

Thanks again for your patience – I will be providing more information over the coming days. Part 2 of the message will focus on the background to the new agreement.

 

Brian McCafferty

Acting chairman

Well Society

 

Interesting reading from Brian, a degree of light has been cast however a number of other questions remain unanswered but I respect that its due to legal constraints and they will be fully furnished in time as promised.

 

So according to what I read, Les has effectively taken control of the club from JB (or in the final stages to do so). That would explain his ability to influence things to the degree he has with board appointments, manager approval and direction we will take.

 

This is an interim/facilitation exercise to allow the WS to raise further (undetermined amount but not £1.5m any longer) funds to allow him to walk away in 5 years time (similar to Fergus McCann but without looking to make money from the arrangement).

 

In the interim he will employ various resources at his disposal to change the structure, revenue streams and outgoings of the club to make it fully self sufficient.

 

The bit I don't get and would like clarification on (I would think its answerable even under the current restrictions) is why the club itself is tasked with repaying Les' funds? I would have thought it was for the WS in the interim to raise further funds to effectively give these to Les to allow him to walk when the target is met?

 

It may be a Partnership but in reality if Les wants to implement anything is there a chance he can be overruled? All members of the board are currently there through his largess and wisdom and they will no doubt be aware of that.

[fizoxy]

Second part of Les Hutchison interview.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Second part of Les Hutchison interview.

 

Really hope sensible player recruitment and profitable turnaround comes to fruition under Hutchison/Baraclough. It has to be at the essence of a tightly run ship.

 

This was a major failing under the Dempster/McCall regime.

[weeyin]

Anier and Ojamaa were pretty good recruits that we signed for nowt, paid peanuts in wages and sold on for a nice wee profit - so it can be done, But it's not always as easy as that as Randolph demonstrated - quality keeper and zero bids for him.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Anier and Ojamaa were pretty good recruits that we signed for nowt, paid peanuts in wages and sold on for a nice wee profit - so it can be done, But it's not always as easy as that as Randolph demonstrated - quality keeper and zero bids for him.

 

Think much of this was down to a really good agent who we'll hopefully do business with again.

 

Randolph one still baffles me but we need to get better at projecting our players and boosting their profile without begging for cash. Dundee Utd and Falkirk being two shining examples of what can be done.

[dennyc]

In response to Goggles and Flippers valid point about the repayment of the Loan from LH.

 

I too thought along similar lines until it dawned on me that if the Society did manage to raise the £1m, but then simply used them to repay the Loan, then there would be no Contingeancy Fund remaining to provide short term funding to MFC. All membership funds would be gone.

 

If I understood correctly (and correct me if I've got it wrong), the Society's aim from the outset was to raise funds to provide short term finance to the Football Club thus avoiding exposure to funding from a Bank. When a certain level of money had been collected, John Boyle would then pass his shares to the Society free of payment. The funds would remain intact with the Society for use by MFC when required.

 

In effect there needs to be two lots of £1m - One lot to repay LH and one lot to continue the financing of MFC when needed short term. If the Football Cub can generate enough profits within the five year period all well and good. But it does concern me that, if that does not happen, unlike the free handover from John Boyle then a payment will require to be made by the Society to LH to take ownership of the Shares. The funds ingathered by the Society will be gone.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted LH got involved. Hopefully under his leadership the club can turn things round and return to generating income. Without his involvement the future looks bleak. I will continue to support the Club and Society in every way I can but I don't want to see the Society funds disappear forever.The Club needs to be able to repay the Loan without utilising the Society funds.

 

 

 

 

 

[Goggles & Flippers]

Got me thinking too Denny, I imagine a scenario where LH didn't step in however JB extended our target by 5 years. To keep things simple I'll suggest the target is £1.5m even though it's been covered that it is less now.

 

So using this as an example today we'd have 1,200 members and £500k in cash assets. Ideally we would have found the extra £1m and JB gifts his shares and we have £1.5m in assets and approx 3,500 members.

 

The actual result is, today we have 1,200 members and £500k in cash assets and LH has stumped up £1m to buy us time as JB wanted out ASAP. We have 5 years to raise £1m at which point LH transfers the shares he holds (?) in trust to the WS and takes his £1m back surely? However that is based he has swollen the WS coffers to £1.5m so in 5 years if we grow on schedule they would be £2.5m. However if he has kept his funds separate surely he doesn't have to do anything, they're purely a guarantee.

I suppose the crux of this is the above is mostly conjecture and is one of the key things the WS board have to convey and clarify is the overview of the deal in place ..... when able.

[dennyc]

I think we kind of agree. If the LH Loan monies remain untouched that would solve the problem.

 

But I got the impression MFC were fast approaching the point where they would need financial support for a sum far greater than the amount currently available from the Society.... Crap cup and league performances being a major cause. Therefore the likelihood is that the bulk of the loan funds will be used to support day to day survival. So, unless the restructuring and fresh ideas produce increased revenue, the only way the Loan can be repaid is by using all the Society funds currently held plus most/all of any additional monies brought in over the years. End result - fan ownership of a majority of shares but little or no working capital.

 

The LH deal buys us time and might even have saved us from entering admin for which we must be thankful. But, if we are to get out of the mess we are clearly in then the Club must return to profitability so we can start afresh with some sort of financial security when our benefactor moves on. Alternatively Les could just forget about getting his money back and pass over the Shares anyway at the end of the 5 years. This might actually not be that far fetched as apparently he at one time considered just gifting the money to the Society in the first place. I suspect there might be legal or tax reasons why that could not happen.

 

Time will tell, but at least now it looks like we have that time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[santheman]

In response to Goggles and Flippers valid point about the repayment of the Loan from LH.

 

I too thought along similar lines until it dawned on me that if the Society did manage to raise the £1m, but then simply used them to repay the Loan, then there would be no Contingeancy Fund remaining to provide short term funding to MFC. All membership funds would be gone.

 

If I understood correctly (and correct me if I've got it wrong), the Society's aim from the outset was to raise funds to provide short term finance to the Football Club thus avoiding exposure to funding from a Bank. When a certain level of money had been collected, John Boyle would then pass his shares to the Society free of payment. The funds would remain intact with the Society for use by MFC when required.

 

In effect there needs to be two lots of £1m - One lot to repay LH and one lot to continue the financing of MFC when needed short term. If the Football Cub can generate enough profits within the five year period all well and good. But it does concern me that, if that does not happen, unlike the free handover from John Boyle then a payment will require to be made by the Society to LH to take ownership of the Shares. The funds ingathered by the Society will be gone.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted LH got involved. Hopefully under his leadership the club can turn things round and return to generating income. Without his involvement the future looks bleak. I will continue to support the Club and Society in every way I can but I don't want to see the Society funds disappear forever.The Club needs to be able to repay the Loan without utilising the Society funds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You could even argue that there might have to be 3 lots of £1m, one to eventually repay LH, one to make up the £1m losses over the last 3 years and one to continue the financing of MFC by the Well Society during the lean months if we don't cut our cloth accordingly (which hopefully we will)

[Lobey_Dosser]

If Hutchison's revenue streams do come to fruition then hopefully the WS fund doesn't need to be touched. I think it's very important that there is a 7 figure working capital sitting there should the fan takeover materialise.

 

Once the imminent deal is signed and sealed, I hope they focus in on regular funding and set realistic targets in January for how much the WS should raise each year. Possibly with split targets for personal and business level.

 

For instance, if we are require a 1,000 fans to pay on average £20 per month then there's an achievable £240k per annum. Is this sufficient? Could the business community come close to matching this?

 

And a nice wee incentive would be for the loan to turn into a donation should the WS meet all it's targets.

[stuwell]

If I understand things correctly, LH had originally offered the cash with no strings attached but for some reason had to change to the way we are now doing it. So I would imagine there is some sort of a barrier to him just giving the cash to the WS.

Remember the WS was looking to get loans from fans and pay interest yearly so The fact that he's given the money interest free has already saved the WS approx £20000 a year which could be out towards paying back the loan. So over the 5 years we then only need to find another £900000

Also the £1M isn't just. Going to disappear it is working capital that might not all be used up and can be invested in a high interest acc to earn extra income.

[WellSoc]

The latest part of the chairman's message is now up on the Well Society website - sorry for the delay. Part 2 focuses on the background to the deal, which will hopefully give some more understanding of how and why we got to this point. Part 3 will focus more on internal issues with the Well Society and where we go from here.

 

To answer some of the specific points raised above:

The idea of raising a £1.5m reserve fund has been undermined by the recent financial losses of the club - which total close to £1m in three seasons 2011-14. The club also owes John Boyle about 350k from a loan that, I think, without having time to check, was given in 2009 when Setanta went bust.

 

So everything that's been done recently is to help save the club from a seriously difficult financial situation while trying to keep ownership in the community given the interest from elsewhere.

 

People are assuming Les's loan is £1m but all we have said is that the combined input of funds is more than £1m-plus. I can't give details away but what was said in the first part of Brian's message is that we need to raise about the same funds as we have already raised again (ie 500k-plus) in order to make sure that we would inherit the shares. But we obviously want to raise more.

 

The reasons the loan is to the club is that it gives Les more security about getting it back, and the fact he would be taking control of the club would give him more ability to influence the financial affairs and help us put it on the road to financial sustainability. Also, it allows us to raise money for a contingency fund, which was the ethos of the original model. It also gives the Well Society and Motherwell fans in general time to prepare for the transition to a fan-owned club, how it would work and to convince people that it is the best (only?) way forward. But given Les is putting up a major sum of money as an interest-free loan that is giving us this chance, then we have made a commitment to helping the club pay him back if it cannot afford any particular repayment. We would have some time to raise money before this scenario unfolded.

The goal of having a £1.5m reserve fund was based on the business model the club employed in recent years, it was said to be three years of the worst-case scenario losses. A new business plan is needed given the consistent recent losses and one that carries less risk, so we would not necessarily be needing a £1.5m reserve fund. The hope is that there is as big a reserve fund as possible though. Going forward any windfall such as a large transfer fee or cup final/win could potentially supplement the reserve fund. But that's getting a bit far ahead.

Hopefully that addresses some of the points and i will check back again when I've more time. merry xmas to everyone too

[Kmcalpin]

On reading the latest Well Society statement 2 pieces of text jumped out at me. The first was that John Boyle/Club directors issued a statement cum ultimatum to the Society and secondly "John Boyle sympathised with our position but came to the conclusion that, unless we could quickly provide some optimism that we could raise enough cash, he would have no alternative but to seriously progress talks with another party who were interested in acquiring his shares. This interest has now been widely reported in the press but we could not give any details of it at the time...."

 

Now I realise that those who attend Fir Park regularly comprise a number of groups ranging from fans to those who simply want entertainment on a Saturday afternoon. Some want to see the club survive and prosper at all costs; others would quite like to see it continue but not at all costs others would simply do something else on matchdays. I would now say to all fans, that if you can afford it, you should support the Society. We have to deal with the here and now. Its the only option at this point of helping our club. I do realise of course that some fans genuinely believed the South American buyout was the best way forward and thats as may be. Many fans have already signed up, but the Society needs more to do so. It needs donations as well as memberships but it also needs members to participate and give of their time.

 

To the current Society Board - thanks for getting us this far.