Catweazles ring piece Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I must admit about having grave reservations about this! However, I'd agree about next to no other viable options, so we are where we are! I had a conversation about two years ago with John Chapman and he simplified the running of Motherwell Football Club in his tenure. If wee Tommy came banging on his door looking for money and it was thought necessary, he got whatever money we had available minus a small amount. He advocated about not spending what we didn't have. The WS at this time is an important fall back for MFC, however, to me The Board of Directors carry a heavy burden. This is an important milestone in the Club's history and if Mr Hutchinson is relinquishing his tenure early, I hope the appropriate planning is nailed to the structure of the old place. This is no time for the well meaning running Motherwell Football Club and I hope the present custodians have the business acumen to carry this off. Time will answer these questions in full. COYW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintymac Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Agree with what Alan burrows said on radio that Les being involved has stopped people signing up as possibly in some fans thinking he was going to be there to bail us out when we needed it . In a way he's forced our hand now . So now it's over to us . My opinion for what it's worth is that there no plan b. This is the only option and I'm willing to let it play out and also play my part . For £5/month or £60/year to join I think that's very reasonably priced . I personally pay £10/month but am acutely aware that may be too much but a fiver ?!!!!. My hope is that the well fans come on board and a least give it a go . No other options that I can see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 It's quite simple with revenues and current player wages in the SPFL it will be hard to have a competitive team and balance the books. We can do it, but it will mean losing key players, imposing a very tight wages structure and perhaps dropping down a division to come back up. As has been highlighted elsewhere, I'm not sure how living within our means somehow equates to not being able to compete. St Johnstone, for example, spend what they have, maximise their income and as such, turn profits. They aren't a 'bigger club' than we are in any way, but retain a solid financial footing. Accies, Dundee United, Hearts and St Johnstone have all made significant sales in transfer windows. Again, while hearts and Dundee United are probably bigger clubs than us, what is stopping us selling players? Like, I don't think it's a simple process to rectify, but in solely practical terms, we should do better in both these regards, for me. We shouldn't post losses and we should be selling players. These are also the principles of the society, so...idk, what's the problem? Others can do it, we can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I've never really been behind the idea of fan ownership, but it would appear that it's time for everyone to pitch in and do what they can to make this work. How do I sign up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 As for lacking experience to run the club, I'm not 100% sure about that, but if it is true then, as owners, we are free to go and find people who do have the experience to run it for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I've never really been behind the idea of fan ownership, but it would appear that it's time for everyone to pitch in and do what they can to make this work. How do I sign up? http://www.thewellsociety.co.uk/pledge/ has the various options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Signed up to the tenner a month, took about 30 seconds! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 It's quite simple with revenues and current player wages in the SPFL it will be hard to have a competitive team and balance the books. We can do it, but it will mean losing key players, imposing a very tight wages structure and perhaps dropping down a division to come back up. I agree with Lobey, and feel the club are now rudderless in terms of an experienced leadership team after recent departures. I have serious fears for the future and would not be surprised if we are courting administration within 12 months unless we get a player sales cash injection. Fielding a competitive team on a smaller budget can be done (see ICT and St Johnstone) but'll it mean playing less exciting football. More emphasis on fitness, experience and organisation. In terms of the club management, of course there'll be a transitional period, but the likes of Jim McMahon has been involved for a good few years and knows the scene inside out. Its critical though that other directors bring some kind of skill or business acumen to the table. As others are now beginning to appreciate, we may not all be deliriously happy with the concept of fan ownership but whats the alternative? If the worst comes to the worst, and I don't think it will, yes we could be courting administration in a year or two's time. If we deem that to be too great a risk then the alternative is probably administration now. thats a stark choice. Its a no brainer. All that said the Society has to get its act together and a good start would be answering members' questions now and improving communications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Following on from my earlier post, it's clear this is the situation we are in and whether you believe it will work or not long term, it's the way it is. I'm nowhere near convinced, but like others, will be doing my bit to give it a go. £10/month direct debit from me and we will see how it goes. If a year from now it's clearly not showing any signs of working, I will reconsider the commitment as I don't want to be throwing money at a sinking ship. But, we have to give it a go. Repeating myself, but if you are in a position to sign up to monthly donations, then would urge you to dip your toe in the water as we will never know if this can work until we try. ...and hopefully the powers that be in the society will pick up on this new willingness from the fans that have previously been skeptical to give it a go and get their act together! I don't view our small fan base as the biggest threat to this model going forward, I view the strategy of the society as the biggest obstacle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Fielding a competitive team on a smaller budget can be done (see ICT and St Johnstone) but'll it mean playing less exciting football. More emphasis on fitness, experience and organisation. More experience comes at a financial cost. There is no reason we can't be bringing on young exciting talent. In fact, as a business model, that's exactly what we should be doing so we can sell them on. That should be happening in parallel to picking up guys like Moult and Johnson that we can improve and move on for a profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I'm just going to chuck this out there but as a general point following on from thisGRAEME's post earlier if the club actually gets itself together and starts managing to break even and even post profit instead of year on year losses (we've done it before, it's not a totally alien concept) then there's every chance that you might actually see people, beyond your average fan, more inclined to put some money in. It's less appealing if you're approaching people with books that show consistent losses. Again though, that's up to the club to genuinely engage with investors and more specifically sponsors and give them a reason to actually invest rather than a plea to prop them up or chuck cash into a money pit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Not for me. Did my bit for 2 years - got fed up at the missed targets, lack of direction, terrible communication and poor outlook for the future. I have grave concerns about this deal and what it will mean for the future of Motherwell FC. Hopefully I've got it all wrong, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 The WS at this time is an important fall back for MFC, however, to me The Board of Directors carry a heavy burden. This is an important milestone in the Club's history and if Mr Hutchinson is relinquishing his tenure early, I hope the appropriate planning is nailed to the structure of the old place. This is no time for the well meaning running Motherwell Football Club and I hope the present custodians have the business acumen to carry this off. How much business acumen is actually required? We're not building a hotel, getting lines of credit, moving stadium or expanding the business any time soon. You've got the football side of the club which is mainly run by the manager then a small commercial operation mainly based around hospitality. The majority of the income comes from tickets and media rights neither of which can be influenced much at board level. You obviously need people who can set budgets but it's not exactly dragon's den. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezz Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 The main thing holding me back from joining was the lack of communication, unfulfilled promises re regular updates from the society and the seemingly ever changing goal posts. Whilst none of these things have changed in the last few days, from listening to the various interviews and reading the posts on here, it's clear there really is no ther alternative in terms of ownership for the club. As others have said, the days of individual wealthy benefactors is over on Scottish football. Therefore I've said up for £10 a month today and it really was easy and took less than 1 minute. Going by Twitter it looks like there has been a fair few other signing up in the last few days so let's hope there's some positive statements from the society soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwell Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I was a firm 'not for me' until this week. I'm now completely on the fence. If the well society can improve their communications and assure professionalism i'll be on board. I'm not for the 'fans need to step up' chat. It's brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I was a firm 'not for me' until this week. I'm now completely on the fence. If the well society can improve their communications and assure professionalism i'll be on board. I'm not for the 'fans need to step up' chat. It's brutal. Brutal but true. If that's the message needed to get folk on board then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwell Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 It's that kind of attitude that is putting me off though. I'm fairly sure I'm not alone. I don't owe it to the club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 The rest of your points I can't really argue in any way, but this one I don't understand. Why can't we be self-sustainable? Surely we have to be self-sustainable, regardless of who owns the club? I don't think many top clubs in Scotland are self-sustainable in the true sense of the word. We certainly haven't been. For such a plan to get off the ground you need a suitable buffer to cover lean times. Les, the club and WS all signalled this over a year ago. If we want to be truly self-sustainable and operate at the corresponding level, then that's another debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Can I ask you if there are any circumstances whatsoever in which you would join the Society? I would also address this same question to Stipelisgod. Is it because the Society is not being well run or because you're both simply opposed to the principle of fan ownership? At the outset it was recognised that the Society was not for everyone and thats fine. The same situation has occurred at Hearts not surprisingly and there was recently talk there of setting up some kind of "Telephone Preference Scheme" type opt out. Those who are not interested, under any circumstances, of joining their scheme or indeed are vehemently opposed to it could register their details with the operators and they would be guaranteed no further contact. It would save the individuals hassle and annoyance, perhaps even stress, and save the club unwanted wasted effort and money. Could that be an option here? My only other point is that I hope no-one is refusing to join because they think that there are other options - as Steelboy has said above "talk about outside buyers coming in is fantasy stuff." In principle, I am open to fans having a share in a club. Primarily to prevent a rogue chairman running riot. My stance stems from being a numbers man. While I have no interest in Motherwell fans being the majority shareholder, If I seen any sign of strategy or feasible financial projections that could offer a glimpse of potential success, I'd put my heart before my head and invest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Not for me. Did my bit for 2 years - got fed up at the missed targets, lack of direction, terrible communication and poor outlook for the future. I have grave concerns about this deal and what it will mean for the future of Motherwell FC. Hopefully I've got it all wrong, I understand its not for you Gaag; thats got to be your decision and yours alone. I also understand you have grave concerns about the deal, but I would say in response we don't know the details of it yet. As you have grave concerns, what alternative would you put forward? If the club and / or the Society were to share your serious concerns and decide not to proceed with this deal what should they or indeed can they do? Its a genuine question and for the life of me I just don't know what alternative solution is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I understand its not for you Gaag; thats got to be your decision and yours alone. I also understand you have grave concerns about the deal, but I would say in response we don't know the details of it yet. As you have grave concerns, what alternative would you put forward? If the club and / or the Society were to share your serious concerns and decide not to proceed with this deal what should they or indeed can they do? Its a genuine question and for the life of me I just don't know what alternative solution is there. The honest answer to the question you have posed incorporates my concerns. The fact that we don't know the details yet are being rallied into donating more because of some "your club needs you" approach sticks with me a little. I wouldn't pay for any service or invest money in any other walk of life unless i had some semblence of what I'm getting into. The fact that I care more about the club than I do for many other things I put money into is where it wrangles. It seems as though they are relying on peoples unconditional support to make an investment into something without giving them the respect or honesty to help them understand it better. My serious concerns at this stage are based on a mixture of prior knowledge, complete lack of communication (some may even see it as bordering on misinformation) and the timings/financials of a deal that we know next to nothing about. In my work when I am looking at new business acquisitions, there is a very distinctive, in depth and robust due diligence process that we go through - most often in situations where our employees or the public don't know anything about it. That's fine, no point in releasing information until you can speak with certainty. However the critical difference here is that we aren't asking our employees to put their hands in their pocket to pay for it. As many people have stated - we don't owe the club anything. The club owes us their existence, and at the very least should that should flow throughout both the club and the Well Society. Bravery, Passion, Integrity and Transparency. It's not too much to ask, right? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the traveller Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I have major concerns about their ability to be able to properly run the club. They banged on for months about how we needed 2000 active members to allow them go forward in taking the club over from Hutchinson. It then transpired the agreement said they only needed 1000 and on top of that they could give no definition of what an active member is. If you can not even get the basic fundamentals correct then it does not auger well or inspire confidence for the future. It has been an organisation without a chairperson for a number of months now and yet several of it's directors have now migrated on to the club's board. That they might be the only option available currently does not let me believe our future is by any means secure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 The Society is not running the club. The Society owns the club (or will own the club once the deal is done). The Board will run the club. The Society will influence who is on the Board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the traveller Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 If you own something how do you not run it? Does someone else independent of you somehow run it? The board will surely run the club on behalf of the owners, ie the society. If the society only 'influences' who is on the board despite being the owner of it how could someone else have the ability to choose who the board consists of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Does Les H run the Cub due to his owning 76% of the shares? Technically, of course, the Board are in charge of day to day affairs but surely we can all agree that in reality Les pulls the strings. When it owns the very same 76% of shares is it not realistic to expect the Society via its Board to pull the same strings. Or does anyone out there really think that Les H hasn't run the whole shooting match since he appeared on the scene? And I'm not saying that was either a bad or a good thing. It was probably both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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