superward Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Here here good post . Am all for thatYeah I would agree. I think a lot of information is there between news dates and emails it's just a case of knowing it is there. so an updated q and a section on the WS and/or idiots guide or something on the main site would be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I feel the "club" and the "society" are the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I feel the "club" and the "society" are the same thing. The club (and the ground) is owned by Les Hutchinson which he appears to have bought for free. The society is comprised of Motherwell fans who have contributed half a million pounds which they will not get back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Although the two are separate I get where Busta Nut is coming from. We hear next to nothing from MFC off field related while the Society seems all too anxious to take on the burdens of the club. If the Football Club are struggling to meet THEIR repayments what are THEY doing to sort things out? A normal business would be negotiating reduced terms or a deferment until cash flow permits. From what I see the whole Hutchison thing has been thrown at the Society. How about. Hey, Les. We have money coming from Sale of Erwin and Murphy. How's about backing off and giving us time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Although the two are separate I get where Busta Nut is coming from. We hear next to nothing from MFC off field related while the Society seems all too anxious to take on the burdens of the club. If the Football Club are struggling to meet THEIR repayments what are THEY doing to sort things out? A normal business would be negotiating reduced terms or a deferment until cash flow permits. From what I see the whole Hutchison thing has been thrown at the Society. How about. Hey, Les. We have money coming from Sale of Erwin and Murphy. How's about backing off and giving us time. I would question whether it's in the best interests of the society members to have the society chairman as club chairman. There are surely going to be times when the interests of the society and the club (ie Hutchinson) diverge and that individual is going to be unable to carry out both roles properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Fair point. The Society should be all About building up membership/funds and the Football Club should be attending to their own affairs. Asking the Society for financial help should be crossover. I just get the fear that any money gathered by the society is just absorbed Almost immediately by the Club. Can anyone clarify.... Is any money handed over at the current time a short term loAn to be returned a sap or is it gone forever? Sorry about capitals cropping up. Bloody phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 The money is loaned in lieu of bank loans during the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 So it should come back then unless it is repayment to Les. No offence but r u 100% sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Fair point. The Society should be all About building up membership/funds and the Football Club should be attending to their own affairs. Asking the Society for financial help should be crossover. I just get the fear that any money gathered by the society is just absorbed Almost immediately by the Club. Can anyone clarify.... Is any money handed over at the current time a short term loAn to be returned a sap or is it gone forever? Sorry about capitals cropping up. Bloody phone. As I understand it any money going from the WS to MFC should be a loan to aid with cash flow difficulties. The example I've heard quoted before was the SPL paid out bottom six clubs money in the second half of a season some months earlier than the did with the top six clubs and as such the WS helped out the club until the cash flow situation improved and the money could then be returned. Seems reasonable enough. The lingering doubt that I think some have with loans is that the very first, or one of the first, "loans" caught quite a number of people by surprise when it was revealed (despite much talk of ring-fencing members contributions) was it wasn't actually a loan but a purchase of shares. This was latterly explained away as the constitution not actually allowing loans to be made but it I believe it will leave doubt in some minds that it wouldn't be too much of a leap for a future loan to become another purchase, if the circumstances dictated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 that it wouldn't be too much of a leap for a future loan to become another purchase, if the circumstances dictated. I don't think that purchasing the 5% shareholding has brought the society any benefits and purchasing it at the cub's asking price was detrimental to the society. The society would be mad to make any more small share purchases which don't alter the ownership structure of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I don't think that purchasing the 5% shareholding has brought the society any benefits and purchasing it at the cub's asking price was detrimental to the society. The shareholding has indeed brought the Society some benefits. A representative is entitled to attend the AGM, receive annual accounts and submit questions. Apart from that it has a representative on the board of MFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinkydink Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I don't think that purchasing the 5% shareholding has brought the society any benefits and purchasing it at the cub's asking price was detrimental to the society. The shareholding has indeed brought the Society some benefits. A representative is entitled to attend the AGM, receive annual accounts and submit questions. Apart from that it has a representative on the board of MFC. Could have bought 1 share for a tenner and achieved the ability to attend AGM, get accounts etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 The club (and the ground) is owned by Les Hutchinson which he appears to have bought for free. The society is comprised of Motherwell fans who have contributed half a million pounds which they will not get back. That's a Daily Mail level of spin right there..... Hutchison took a majority shareholding due to providing a loan (now c £1m) to the club under the agreement it is paid back and then that shareholding transfers to the society. Are you suggesting he will just keep a hold of the shareholding once it's been all paid back? If not, care to explain how it's been bought for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 That's a Daily Mail level of spin right there..... Hutchison took a majority shareholding due to providing a loan (now c £1m) to the club under the agreement it is paid back and then that shareholding transfers to the society. Are you suggesting he will just keep a hold of the shareholding once it's been all paid back? If not, care to explain how it's been bought for free? Providing a loan isn't buying something. The net cost is zero (forgetting about the interest). As has been shown this week it's not a given that the club or the society will be able to repay the loan and even beyond the repayment of the loan there have been vague statements about 'proving' to him that we are capable of fan ownership. The perfect outcome that has been laid out by Hutchinson and the society is certainly not the only possible outcome and going by the history of our club and recent Scottish football history it would have to be considered a long shot to work out exactly as planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 "The club (and the ground) is owned by Les Hutchinson which he appears to have bought for free." "Providing a loan isn't buying something" You're arguing against yourself now. You have raised some valid points in this thread, but I'm not sure this is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Somebody earlier mentioned the words "lingering doubt" and I think that kind of sums it up for me. If anybody from the Society is reading this can you please advise.... 1 How much has the Society raised to date? 2 How much has been loaned/given to Motherwell FC? 3 How much has been returned by Motherwell FC? These figures should be readily to hand and I assume they will be shown in any Annual Accounts that are made available to Members. Don't get me wrong. I am delighted the Society has been able to help Motherwell avoid administration and if my small contribution helped I am also delighted. However I would like to know where we are at financially and more importantly where are we going. I repeat - Lingering doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 "The club (and the ground) is owned by Les Hutchinson which he appears to have bought for free." "Providing a loan isn't buying something" You're arguing against yourself now. You have raised some valid points in this thread, but I'm not sure this is one of them. He owns the club. He seems to have been given the shares for free because he was willing to provide an interest free loan. Even if a penny of the loan is never repaid and he loses the whole million he still retains ownership of assets which are worth considerably more than that million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 He owns the club. He seems to have been given the shares for free because he was willing to provide an interest free loan. Even if a penny of the loan is never repaid and he loses the whole million he still retains ownership of assets which are worth considerably more than that million. Not quite buying it for free though is it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Not quite buying it for free though is it... How much do you think he paid for the majority shareholding then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Does Les Hutchison really own the ground...or does he have Security over it to protect his interest free Loan. It's not the same has having his name on the Title deeds as owner. Again discussion raises more questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 How much do you think he paid for the majority shareholding then? Essentially c £1m I would imagine a nominal fee of £1 to facilitate the actual transfer which is quite normal in a transaction like this. That is 100% different than saying he bought the club for free. Anyway, I don't really want to waste the thread by going back and forth. If you want to believe he got it for free like you said originally then fine. But in reality the situation is more complex than that as I think you know given your other posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Does Les Hutchison really own the ground...or does he have Security over it to protect his interest free Loan. It's not the same has having his name on the Title deeds as owner. Again discussion raises more questions. Exactly. More details required. In fact, they might already be available, I don't remember. But a refresher would be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 It really would clarify things if a Society Board member could answer the various points this discussion has raised. I know they might have been covered before, perhaps at meetings. However not all members can attend meetings midweek due to work commitments or living miles from Motherwell. Suggestion, how about a meeting before or after a home game. Won't help our overseas guys but maybe help those travelling a distance for a home game. Two birds one stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something else Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Alternatively he might be the kind of person who doesn't just give his money away to hopeless causes It's just the fans who do that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 It's just the fans who do that.. What make you think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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