The Well Society

[fat_tony]

Search Google Trends.

 

Put in steelmenonline and you'll see the figures.

 

 

It's a good start, but that'll just show you search interest, not how actual site traffic has varied over the years. I know I always visit by either typing the site's URL in or via bookmark, and I'd wager a lot of people do similar. The search interest is probably Scottish journalists looking for a story...

 

What would be really interesting to see, and I think this would require access to the site's own logs/tracking, would be how many people overall visit the site now, and how many actually post, or just lurk.

 

From personal experience there are a lot of times I've come on to post something, seen this place in absolute meltdown, and just thought "fuck it".

[Guest]

Just found this link http://www.thewellsociety.co.uk/benefits/

Apparently I'm due a membership card?

Been a member since April, so I'll look forward to that.

[dennyc]

Re putting some bones on the Agreement with Les. A Board member did answer some questions put to him on Saturday in the Cooper Suite. According to him -

 

Les gets 40% of transfer Income, John Boyle 20% and the Club 40%. Given some decent transfer activity, JB could be repaid fairly quickly and the Club's share would then increase to 60% of further transfers.

 

During the 3 year period, the Loans from LH are interest free. The Club has guaranteed to repay LH in full even if sufficient transfer income is not generated. A repayment schedule has been tentatively agreed, to commence if need be after the 3 year period.

 

LH's daughter remains on the Club Board, but his other two placements stood down as part of the Agreement.

 

LH has no call on any other income which may be generated from whatever source, an example being bonus income from Uefa as a result of Celtic's "march" on Europe.

 

The Society Bank Balance is minimal, currently standing at around £20k. The society has provided support to the Club in recent months and will continue to do so. Managing the Club finances through to next season (and avoiding relegation) is of prime importance. Thereafter there will be a guaranteed increase in payments from the SPFL due to an uplift in Commercial and TV Income. As a result the overall financial picture should improve substantially.

 

Local businessmen are showing an interest in being part of the new set-up. Discussions are ongoing.

 

Further announcements are planned over the next couple of weeks coupled with a recruitment drive.

 

 

My own thoughts? Given that Les does not appear to be the easiest person in the world to deal with, I think the deal is about the best the Society could have hoped for. Better if he had just written off the monies due to him, but I guess that was never really going to happen. Neither was he going to provide any additional support so in that sense we are certainly no worse off.

At least here is now some certainty and the Club/Society can plan for the future without worrying about Les and his demands for repayment.

All that remains is for the Society Board to reconnect with Members, providing the communication, openness and trust which, speaking personally, I feel has been sadly lacking. Time will tell.

[Kmcalpin]

 

The Society Bank Balance is minimal, currently standing at around £20k.

Agree with your post Denny. I'm a bit puzzled though - I believe that Society income is about £8-12k per month. Allowing for normal outgoings, where is the cash going? I can only deduce that most of the monthly income is being fed to the club either as a loan or as a gift. I've no problem with that by the way.

 

Yes, the Society has to raise its game. An update on membership would be a start.

[Dezz]

Thanks for the info above dennyc, interesting reading. Hopefully the future sales of Moult, Cadden and Heneghan (if everything goes to plan) will see us well on our way to paying off Boyle and Hutchisons debt.

 

I, like many others, have become a bit disillusioned with the Society in the past due to the apparent lack of direction and communication issues, but having finally sealed the deal and seeing fans from all clubs all over the UK tweeting us their best wishes it has made me feel quite proud to be part of it. It's clear there is a passion for fan ownership across the country and we should be proud that we're the first top level club in the UK to achieve it.

 

Hopefully going forward there can be a renewed campaign to drive sign ups and we can really sieze this opportunity as, like others have said, it really is the only way forward for clubs like Motherwell.

[Dezz]

Agree with your post Denny. I'm a bit puzzled though - I believe that Society income is about £8-12k per month. Allowing for normal outgoings, where is the cash going? I can only deduce that most of the monthly income is being fed to the club either as a loan or as a gift. I've no problem with that by the way.

 

Yes, the Society has to raise its game. An update on membership would be a start.

I believe the Society release a monthly update on membership via Twitter. The most recent one was included in the September board meeting summary when we had 1,920 members with 1,402 adults. August income was c. £10k.

 

A tweet from earlier today says they have been inundated with messages and new membership requests so imagine we'll hear an update once they get through the new requests.

 

Fully agree that they need to raise their game but small steps are being made with monthly updates and summaries of board meeting which as far as I'm aware weren't happening 6 months ago.

 

Edit : there's actually a counter on the Society homepage. Unsure when it was last updated but it shows 1,930 members, with 1,410 of those adults.

 

Edit 2 : recent tweet says 40 new pledges from the weekend have been processed and more still to do. Pretty encouraging stuff but needs to be built upon.

[CMWellfan]

Things you wish you probably hadn't said number 43034.....

 

Would we like to see more people make use of the site? Sure. And I'm sure any data you are able to put forward as regards usage will make for interesting reading.

 

Will the site head honcho want to go down a weekly email route to tackle that, I pretty much doubt it.

 

I wouldn't knock your marketing and analytic credentials but I would question that folk would find some the content you suggest of sufficient interest to tempt them to visit. Why would you want a match report sent to you when with a couple of links in media you most likely already engage with can bring you that report within seconds of full-time after a game?

 

Anecdotal evidence suggests users have moved on for a number of reasons. Some felt the site lost its personal touch from its origins as WTFC.net when it was essentially a group of mates who started it. Some felt that initial group of posters overly "happy clappy" and not so open to debate. Conversely as the site grew others felt it had become overly negative and riddled with trolls.

 

Over the last decade plus SO has also changed, alongside Fir Park Corner, from being the only places for debate to being just one of many. Folk can engage in 'Well related chat on so many other platforms like Twitter or Facebook and if they wish restrict that debate to just their mates.

 

And yeah, probably the most trivial of all the threads posted each week, the Man of the Match thread, sheesh, I don't know how many hundreds that has turned off over the years....

Run polls and ask the current membership to vote on why they visit the forum.

 

Start with "Do you look out for the Man of the Match," thread? Simple yes or no.

 

Re the forum management can't be bothered to put together an email digest, stunning. They can start by asking on the forum if someone is prepared to do it.

 

Re media content. Show me the last time the media gave us any type of analysis of new players such as McMillan in their 300 word reports? Rare to never. They leave massive gaps in their coverage.

 

Kmcalpin delivers good reports all the time, as do others. They fill in the details the media can't/don't. That's the type of stuff fans eat up.

 

Try it.

[CMWellfan]

It's a good start, but that'll just show you search interest, not how actual site traffic has varied over the years. I know I always visit by either typing the site's URL in or via bookmark, and I'd wager a lot of people do similar. The search interest is probably Scottish journalists looking for a story...

 

What would be really interesting to see, and I think this would require access to the site's own logs/tracking, would be how many people overall visit the site now, and how many actually post, or just lurk.

 

From personal experience there are a lot of times I've come on to post something, seen this place in absolute meltdown, and just thought "fuck it".

That's down to the mods. Plenty of times you'll see the mods leading the abuse, which is laughable.

[dennyc]

Agree with your post Denny. I'm a bit puzzled though - I believe that Society income is about £8-12k per month. Allowing for normal outgoings, where is the cash going? I can only deduce that most of the monthly income is being fed to the club either as a loan or as a gift. I've no problem with that by the way.

 

Yes, the Society has to raise its game. An update on membership would be a start.

That struck me as well given the figures posted online. I had expected a figure nearer £100k. I think that's where the comment that they have been assisting the Club in recent times comes into play. With no Bank overdraft, I think Society funds are likely to continue to be used if and when the need arises. Getting through to next season and the anticipated increased income seems to be the focus.

I did ask about the Society's monthly outgoings and was told that the only expenditure of note was the half salary of one fulltime employee, with MFC funding the other half.

 

For what its worth, there was an acknowledgement that communication had to improve and that more meaningful information should be made available to Members. I was not the only one who raised that issue so the Board should be well aware of the bridges they have to build. Just a suggestion from me, but perhaps Les had undue influence on what could and could not be revealed even though he was not a Member. That should no longer be an issue and hopefully we will see an immediate improvement. As I said. time will tell.

 

Good news about the upturn in membership. Hopefully a few Businesses get on Board.

[joewarkfanclub]

Surely if the Society only has £20k currently in the bank it means that it has lent a significant sum to the club which will be returned to the pot when available? My understanding was that society funds were for interest free loans to the club for cash flow purposes as we dont have access to an overdraft?

[dennyc]

Surely if the Society only has £20k currently in the bank it means that it has lent a significant sum to the club which will be returned to the pot when available? My understanding was that society funds were for interest free loans to the club for cash flow purposes as we dont have access to an overdraft?

That was certainly the intention when the Society was first established. In an ideal world all the funds which have been provided to the club would have been repaid before the takeover and the balance held would now be well in excess of £500k. Clearly, given MFC's financial situation, that has not been possible. That is why some folk had concerns about the takeover happening well ahead of the agreed timescale and before the Society had time to build up a Reserve Fund for "overdraft" purposes. I understand that was one of the issues which caused the negotiations with Les to take much longer than anticipated. The three year delay in having to repay Les (in the absence of transfer income) and the fact no interest is being charged meantime thankfully lessens the risk in that regard. Bottom line is that if MFC is self sufficient, as should be the case by next season, then Society funds will grow. Until then it's survive by any means.

 

Given the latest turn of events I'm not convinced the original arrangement still stands. But that is a point that does require clarification once and for all. Until MFC is self sufficient there does seem to have been a shift in thinking, On Saturday we were encouraged to submit any further questions via the Society Web Site so I guess you are free to seek an answer. It will be interesting to hear if you receive a prompt response in line with the promise of better communication and openness.

 

Not done any research, but how does the Hearts thing work? Do fans subscriptions go straight to the Club for immediate use or are they building up a fund to purchase a controlling share of the Club? I ask because the Hearts model seems to be held up as the way to go.

[joewarkfanclub]

That was certainly the intention when the Society was first established. In an ideal world all the funds which have been provided to the club would have been repaid before the takeover and the balance held would now be well in excess of £500k. Clearly, given MFC's financial situation, that has not been possible. That is why some folk had concerns about the takeover happening well ahead of the agreed timescale and before the Society had time to build up a Reserve Fund for "overdraft" purposes. I understand that was one of the issues which caused the negotiations with Les to take much longer than anticipated. The three year delay in having to repay Les (in the absence of transfer income) and the fact no interest is being charged meantime thankfully lessens the risk in that regard. Bottom line is that if MFC is self sufficient, as should be the case by next season, then Society funds will grow. Until then it's survive by any means.

 

Given the latest turn of events I'm not convinced the original arrangement still stands. But that is a point that does require clarification once and for all. Until MFC is self sufficient there does seem to have been a shift in thinking, On Saturday we were encouraged to submit any further questions via the Society Web Site so I guess you are free to seek an answer. It will be interesting to hear if you receive a prompt response in line with the promise of better communication and openness.

 

Not done any research, but how does the Hearts thing work? Do fans subscriptions go straight to the Club for immediate use or are they building up a fund to purchase a controlling share of the Club? I ask because the Hearts model seems to be held up as the way to go.

Thanks for this.

 

I think my concern, before putting any further money in, would be that the club doesnt become a bottomless pit. If the money given to the club by the society is never paid back, then where is the incentive to manage the finances wisely. Im not in favour of the Society just becoming another "income stream" as after a while it just becomes part of the operating structure. To me that leaves the club at risk if fans thereafter can no longer afford their direct debits.

[superward]

A bit further info today via an interview:

http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/sport/football/motherwell-fc/society-wants-entirely-home-grown-well-team-1-4275559?

 

It states we will retain 40% of every fee we get for players over the next 3 years. So, 60% going to Les to repay the c £1m loan.

 

By my calculations that means if we can bring in around £1.8million in transfer fees we pay off the loan(s). A big ask given previous transfer dealings. However, not impossible.

[weeyin]

Does anyone know if the Marvin and Pearson fees will contribute to that repayment? If so, that will give us a good start.

[Villageman]

 

 

It states we will retain 40% of every fee we get for players over the next 3 years. So, 60% going to Les to repay the c £1m loan.

 

 

Be careful of the conclusions you are drawing from that interview. Not sure that it changes anything from 40/20/40 % Club / Boyle / Huthison deal.

[superward]

Be careful of the conclusions you are drawing from that interview. Not sure that it changes anything from 40/20/40 % Club / Boyle / Huthison deal.

Had never seen the 40/20/40 split anywhere to be fair . Or if I have have forgotten about it.

 

Either way hopefully we can get a mahoosive fee for Cadden and it all gets paid off. Easy meat. :-)

[daver]

We barely fill the stadium for 90% of the games. And when we do get a five figure crowd, there's always spare capacity these days.

 

Don't put too much reliance on my pie remark - it's just one example of how we would create revenue. The club shop another, and adults attending with kids yet another.

 

While you may get 3,000 kids takihg up the offer,you'll never get them all to attend, and defo not all at the same time. You issue 3000 tickets per year in the hope of establishing 300 new lifetime supporters every year. As crowds grow, you may have to reduce the free ticket allocation. That's the end goal. And it's a long term goal - it could take ten or fifteen years to see great results. That's not a long time.

 

At this rate of travel our support will die out. I haven't seen a figure for the SPL but two years ago the EPL average age was 42. They have a different problem due to being near capacity and high prices.

 

I work in the digital marketing field as part of my business. I know for a fact that "make it free," works. There are simple things that can be done to check on who is in possession of a season ticket but non attending.

 

Electronic scanning at the gate is one.

 

Another is to issue a season ticket number and send out emails with the tickets for the kids to download or scan a QF code. Easy for marketing guys to see who is opening their emails.

 

Easy to prepare individual email lists to market direct to age groups.

 

As far as I can see the club social media is good, maybe very good, but they are missing revenue generators. That lengthy thread re matchday posters on Pie & Bovril is a prime example.

 

It's easy for the club to set up an account with various suppliers who will sell and print the posters on demand in various sizes. As has been pointed out over there, even away fans would buy MFC generated posters as many are that good.

 

It's easy for the art "department," to strip off the matchday details and to supply on demand T-shirts. How many Hearts rans would buy that stunning image posted on P&B? And that's never mind our support that would love access to sharp merchandise.

 

The list goes on.

 

Set up a fund for kids season tickets.

 

Set up a fund for youth development.

 

Go Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze for both. £1000, £500, £100, £50. List the supporters and companies that pay into these funds. I'll be platinum on both.

 

There's plenty of fans and businesses who are reluctant to pump into a potential black hole ( the club that is ), who would bite at funding youth. I know three who don't donate to The Well Society who would donate to kids and youth.

 

Demarcate these funds and let us have a go at them.

 

You've got some good ideas that I hope you can take to the club to see if you can help in some way. You've rubbed some people up the wrong way with a few comments but now that you've stated your line of business that helps to back up suggestions and your expertise can hopefully be put to good use.

 

As a club we need to be considering all options and not just dismissing ideas without proper consideration.

[Busta Nut]

The balance is kinda scary.

 

 

This

 

I did ask about the Society's monthly outgoings and was told that the only expenditure of note was the half salary of one fulltime employee, with MFC funding the other half.

is also a strange yin. Looks like Craig Hughes is in a weird place.

[Kmcalpin]

I think my concern, before putting any further money in, would be that the club doesnt become a bottomless pit.

That could happen, however the plan is make the club self sufficient. A Society rep said, a months ago at a meeting that once the takeover of the club had taken place there would be still be an ongoing need for monthly donations and he hoped members wouldn't just assume that it was job done and stop giving. However the plan was make the club sustainable in the long term.

[stuwell]

That could happen, however the plan is make the club self sufficient. A Society rep said, a months ago at a meeting that once the takeover of the club had taken place there would be still be an ongoing need for monthly donations and he hoped members wouldn't just assume that it was job done and stop giving. However the plan was make the club sustainable in the long term.

In my opinion the society now has two main rolls in helping make the club sustainable, firstly to build up sufficient funds to enable it to (if required) assist the club during low income months by means of short term interest free loans - repayable at the end of seasons from finishing position cash and secondly to look long term at new or improved facilities.

To this long term roll , once LH & JB have been replayed, I'd like the club/society to agree some sort of split of future player sales being put aside which would enable at least part payment of new facilities, avoiding putting the club into a level of debt that could be financially unsubstantial.

The society does have further non financial rolls to play in making MFC a vibrant and successful football club.

[numpty]

I think my concern, before putting any further money in, would be that the club doesnt become a bottomless pit.

All football clubs are bottomless pits.. it doesn't matter how much money you give them, you're never going to see any of it back, and they're always going to ask you for more next week. The only question is whether the entertainment and memories you get back instead were worth it.

[KirkySuperSub]

Serious question, I'm so far out of the loop these days with all aspects of the club, let alone the workings of the Well Society.

 

As a member who paid the original £300 'one-off' payment, or so I thought at the time, but who hasn't paid in any additional funds since, what actually IS my current membership status at present?

[Kmcalpin]

Serious question, I'm so far out of the loop these days with all aspects of the club, let alone the workings of the Well Society.

 

As a member who paid the original £300 'one-off' payment, or so I thought at the time, but who hasn't paid in any additional funds since, what actually IS my current membership status at present?

You are a fully paid up and current member end of.

 

If you wish to make a one off payment or modest monthly contribution it would be very welcome but is in no way obligatory.

[KirkySuperSub]

Thanks, I genuinely didn't realise that was still the case. I thought the terms had changed since then, in that you had to be contributing monthly to be classed as an active member.

 

I'm in the strange position just now that I am considering contributing on a monthly basis to the club, however at present I have to say that I still have very little desire in actually getting along to the games, or a huge interest in football at any level, in general at present.

 

It's a strange conundrum.

[joewarkfanclub]

All football clubs are bottomless pits.. it doesn't matter how much money you give them, you're never going to see any of it back, and they're always going to ask you for more next week. The only question is whether the entertainment and memories you get back instead were worth it.

I take your point. However, the original purpose of the Society was not to be an endless revenue stream. It was to build a fund to ensure steady cashflow at times where funds were tight. My understanding was that funds would go to the club at certain times and be returned to the Society when available. If the club is run on a sustainable basis then the amount of money should grow rather than diminish.

 

Its just not clear right now to me that this is still the case. If its not then the Society and the Club have to be clear about it.

 

I certainly wont be putting any more money in if its not going to be paid back to the Society. Given how we've pissed money away in the transfer market in the last 2 years you would be mad to sign up to bankroll that. There has to be some accountability on the clubs part to run prudently.