The Well Society

[ECOSSE1991]

Is it correct that the Motherwell FC Annual General Meeting is being held on Tuesday 6th December at 7pm within the Millennium Suite and the Well Society Q & A within the Centenary Suite at 8pm?

[Del_Superwell]

Correct

[weeyin]

I think they were planning to put the Q&A on Periscope so I expect the link for that will be on Twitter nearer the time.

[kmmfc]

Has anyone got a link yet to watch on periscope?

[ixi the patriot]

link http://www.periscope.tv/w/1YqGoVlOPyEKv

[grizzlyg]

Cheers Dezz, I never received email with newsletter. I will contact them as this is getting silly.

[Andy_P]

Between the two meetings I felt it was a pretty positive evening.

 

There was certainly cause for optimism at the club's AGM from a financial perspective. Losses to May of this year were cut considerably on the previous year, the suggestion was made that for the first time in a decade and a half or so that the club have sufficient funds to see them through until the end of the season without loans being required to help cover things and that no sales are required in the January window.

 

Going forward increased revenue is anticipated from two more Old Firm home games next season, an increase in the solidarity payment from Celtic's Champions League progress and increased prize monies through the SPFL's TV deals.

 

Crucially of course that rests on us remaining in the top flight!

 

Interestingly there were also moves to issue some shares with a view to allowing some investors to have a modest stake in the club. There is apparently some interest from people wishing to put money into the club on the proviso that it goes directly to the club and not for servicing existing debts.

 

The new governance structure was covered at both. Most seemed happy to let the club do as they saw best fit although one Gent raised concerns at both meetings. Personally I do believe the email we received yesterday should have been issued only after discussion at both meetings last night - particularly since it appears there will be a follow up clarifying points and issues that have been subsequently raised - however in principle like most I'm happy enough with what they have proposed.

 

There are some causes for concern ahead. The currently trailed structure by the SFA for elite youth development is clearly causing the club concern and it was made clear no options will be left off the table in terms of the club fighting its corner. The worry is that we would be marginalised and would miss out on future talent if a limited number of academies are the route taken by the SFA.

 

This was particularly frustrating in light of the current successes of the U20's recently and obvious excitement there is about some of the talent we have at the club in lower age groups. It was mentioned for example that May is a key month where players can move clubs and the club have to fend off challenges from clubs in leagues such as the English Premier League for their youngsters.

 

There are also future changes to the structure of European competition imminent which are a short-medium concern for fear of the ability of mid-ranking sides like Celtic to make progress in Europe thereby limiting what we might receive in the solidarity payments. Not nice perhaps to be hanging on their coat-tails but an indicator that it is now a fairly important revenue stream.

 

Anything more that comes to mind I can add later.

[Kmcalpin]

Between the two meetings I felt it was a pretty positive evening.

 

 

A good and comprehensive resume Andy so thanks for that. In the short term at least, the club is on a sound financial footing and the transfer strategy is still to speculate to accumulate providing the cash is available. We won't need to sell a player for 3 years. Some money has already been paid back to Les Hutchison and John Boyle. The issue with the proposed governance change is that shareholders were not consulted beforehand and as a few are not Society members they did not know anything about it. I don't think there is any disagreement about the merits of the change though. There was also a brief discussion, as you said, on youth academies. We have a particularly good batch of Under 15s at the moment and a large number of clubs have and are sniffing around them. I was a bit taken aback and shocked at just how competitive the individual academies are; going as they do a bit beyond what I'd call healthy competition.

[superward]

An interesting point coming from the Well Society AGM, I thought, was the intention to introduce a constituency style system where each board member is linked to x amount of members like an MP would be. Giving a more direct link to request info, raise concerns, give ideas etc.

[steelboy]

 

There are some causes for concern ahead. The currently trailed structure by the SFA for elite youth development is clearly causing the club concern and it was made clear no options will be left off the table in terms of the club fighting its corner. The worry is that we would be marginalised and would miss out on future talent if a limited number of academies are the route taken by the SFA.

 

This was particularly frustrating in light of the current successes of the U20's recently and obvious excitement there is about some of the talent we have at the club in lower age groups. It was mentioned for example that May is a key month where players can move clubs and the club have to fend off challenges from clubs in leagues such as the English Premier League for their youngsters.

 

I didn't know anything about this until McGhee brought it up the other week. Cutting the size of the pro youth system is a good idea but giving all the funding to eight elite clubs is crazy.

 

There is talk of an elite Highland academy despite the fact that the total population of the Highlands is less around a third of that of Lanarkshire and there are far fewer kids. I suspect that the Old Firm want a clear run at the entire west of Scotland which is why we are being marginalised.

[Andy_P]

You would be correct in your assumptions, at least in part, steelboy. Though it wasn't referenced at the AGM itself there was mention at the WS section of a 14/15 year old whom Rangers have paid money for despite attempts to retain him.

 

But what was felt to be significant in addition to the Old Firm was the presence of Hamilton on the steering group. Read into that what you will...

[Kmcalpin]

I took from last night's discussions that the idea has been diluted somewhat or some cold water poured on it. The 8 initial elite academies would do all they can to retain their status and try to ensure that those in the next tier couldn't progress. Reading between the lines Rangers, Celtic and Hamilton would be 3 of those top tier academies. Add in say Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen and that doesn't leave much scope for others. I believe that Dundee United, Kilmarnock (who seem to be expanding into Lanarkshire) and a few other clubs are not at all happy. If this change goes through the effect on our club could be very serious indeed.

[superward]

I've heard about all of this but not actually sure what academy status means. Anyone care to explain? What would actually change? Would kids choose to go to a club with an academy status over one without it but the same level of facilities/coaching etc? Do we get SFA investment as an academy? If players move between academies now does this change things from a money perspective?

 

None of those leading questions...just an area I know little about.

[steelboy]

I've heard about all of this but not actually sure what academy status means. Anyone care to explain? What would actually change? Would kids choose to go to a club with an academy status over one without it but the same level of facilities/coaching etc? Do we get SFA investment as an academy? If players move between academies now does this change things from a money perspective?

 

None of those leading questions...just an area I know little about.

 

It's about getting funding from the SFA for coaching and playing fixtures against the other best academies.

 

If this elite 8 thing happens and we're not in it we'll probably have to cut back on coaches and will be a second class team in terms of fixtures. It will make it harder for us to recruit and keep talented young players.

[superward]

 

It's about getting funding from the SFA for coaching and playing fixtures against the other best academies.

 

If this elite 8 thing happens and we're not in it we'll probably have to cut back on coaches and will be a second class team in terms of fixtures. It will make it harder for us to recruit and keep talented young players.

Thanks. I was just reading about it a bit more there as well actually. An article in the Herald and and article about Annan pulling out of the system.

 

Seems a broad consensus that the current system does not work as well as it should. But to essentially give an advantage to 8 teams seems very very poor.

[Onthefringes]

Think there is a thread currently on Pie & Bovril relating to this - elite band currently being served by a working group that consists of our neighbours and Roy McGregor on behalf of the Highland Academy. Suspect they will be forging plans to remain as part of any cartel. Forth Valley Academy who include Falkirk's famed academy in association with Stenhousemuir, East Stirling and the likes will also expect bigger pickings given comments attributed to the dinosaur that is Alex Smith recently.

 

For Motherwell? I'm expecting to see moves to secure winter training facilities given some recent boardroom additions.

[Burn_Broomfield]

I can't believe Accies are being allowed to push this along with Celtic and Rangers. Their end game is purely selfish and designed to secure the Lanarkshire academy, clearly Motherwell are the only fit and proper Club in the area. Only the SFA would allow this stitch to actually happen. It's amazing that they are still held up as a some sort of bastion of Youth Football despite only producing 2 players of note in their history in McArthur and McCarthey, their youth system along with their track record of producing quality players is woeful.

[Onthefringes]

Another interesting take is how Brentford are likely to restructure given their findings...

 

http://www.brentfordfc.co.uk/news/article/brentford-academy-restructuring-11.05.16-3109002.aspx

[superward]

It's an interesting one for sure.

 

I don't really think the argument, for example, that Hamilton shouldn't have the academy, it should be Motherwell sits that well with me. For me, the whole system needs to be fair. I am not even going to attempt to suggest how that is possible or what it should look like. But it needs to fair across the board and not to the advantage of 8 teams (whoever they may be).

 

A bit more discussion on the Brentford model in regards that, and definition of elite v not elite, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/38178077

[steelboy]

Brentford have just decided to give up on youth development and buy in a team of 17 year olds to train.

 

Not for us.

[superward]

From the article they are signing players who haven't made it through the elite development schemes. So I don't think it's a solid case of buying them in every or each time.

 

But either way - it's not a route I think I would like us to go.

[daver]

Surely as the SFA is made up of the clubs this could be vetoed. How does this fit in besides the football schools? Do we benefit from Braidhurst being one of those?

[Kmcalpin]

Surely as the SFA is made up of the clubs this could be vetoed. How does this fit in besides the football schools? Do we benefit from Braidhurst being one of those?

Well you'd expect that the clubs potentially involved in the top 8 category (and there could be more than 8 if you count joint academies) will vote for it. Then there are the smaller clubs who wouldn't be involved anyway - the big boys might offer them some kind of sweetener. So, in short, its very hard to tell how the numbers would stack up. I'm sure I read somewhere that there 6 clubs, including ours, who were dead set against the proposal. Time will tell.

[Burn_Broomfield]

Well you'd expect that the clubs potentially involved in the top 8 category (and there could be more than 8 if you count joint academies) will vote for it. Then there are the smaller clubs who wouldn't be involved anyway - the big boys might offer them some kind of sweetener. So, in short, its very hard to tell how the numbers would stack up. I'm sure I read somewhere that there 6 clubs, including ours, who were dead set against the proposal. Time will tell.

 

So what you'd have is Hearts out of it despite having one of the best Youth set ups in the Country

Motherwell also out despite our history and the fact we are current Youth Cup holders

Dundee Utd, Dundee and St Johnstone all out.

I would say it's only likely to be Ayr or QotS for the remaining spot if Killie are raising red flags about it.

 

Leaving Rangers(who have 2 reps on the board), Celtic, Hibs, Aberdeen, Falkirk, Ross County, Hamilton and say QotS in possesion of all the SFA grants, exclusive pick of the best kids in each area and carte blanche to kill Scottish football. Only the SFA could cook up such a thoroughly abysmal idea and claim it as salvation.

 

If it were to come to fruition, I'd start to question if I'd ever be back at any game in Scotland ever again and many would be the same.

[superward]

Would the academies have exclusive pick? Or is it just that there would be many factors that would encourage them to go there over the other clubs?