The Well Society

[weeyin]

I waiting for the elections for the "Overseas Board Member Who Does Nothing But Swan In Once or Twice a Year to Eat the Pies" position, before I stand.

Candidate Statement: I like the pies.

[Busta Nut]

5 hours ago, weeyin said:

I waiting for the elections for the "Overseas Board Member Who Does Nothing But Swan In Once or Twice a Year to Eat the Pies" position, before I stand.

Candidate Statement: I like the pies.

Bloke from Australia is already trying that this time I think!!!

[SteelmaninOZ]

On 10/10/2018 at 1:49 AM, Busta Nut said:

Bloke from Australia is already trying that this time I think!!!

It's No. Me.

[wunderwell]

Apologies if this has been asked before and I'm not even sure this is the correct post - but I'd love one last shot at a play on the park day.  Getting old.

Does the society/club have any plans for this? Seemed to raise good monies, as good amounts for each position.

[Kmcalpin]

I notice from the Annual Accounts that les Hutchison wrote off £194,000 in the last year, presumably through his "double your money" offer.  As you'll all know he extended this initiative to the end of next month.  Could the Society up its efforts in the coming weeks to maximise contributions?  I know Christmas is coming up.  Maybe a bucket collection?  Every bit helps as they say.  

[superward]

Would also be good to know what the running total is now in regards how much we still owe. 

[Kmcalpin]

12 minutes ago, superward said:

Would also be good to know what the running total is now in regards how much we still owe. 

The recently released set of Club Accounts (year ending 31 May) shows that Les Hutchison was owed £994,00 (£1,469,000 last year) and John Boyle £210,00 (£280,000 last year).  Since then we've had Kipre's transfer fee and Les will be writing off more of his debt through his Double Your Money offer.   Taking everything into account, I'd guess that we will owe them somewhere in the region of £800k by the end of next month. So, progress is being made.

[sinjy]

I wonder what others think of my dilemma. For a few months now I have been thinking of joining the Well Society.  With the double your money offer running until the end of the year I was thinking of paying one to two years up front. But now we have the share offer and I am seriously thinking this is a better option. I will have something in return in that I will own shares and be able to attend AGMs etc. The Society seemed to me was just about donating money each month for no real return. Any thoughts? 

[ropy]

Do both and feel good about yourself, buy the shares now and start a £5 or £10 monthly subscription, only spend what you can afford though.

[Kmcalpin]

14 minutes ago, ropy said:

Do both and feel good about yourself, buy the shares now and start a £5 or £10 monthly subscription, only spend what you can afford though.

Fully agree - do both.  5 shares in the club gives you exactly the same benefits as 500 shares.  You will be able to attend the AGM and view the accounts in full.  You'll also own a little piece of the club.  5 shares might cost you about £50. 

As for the Society- join as its a no brainer.  Pay a little up front if you wish.  What has it done?  Well its kept our club alive and has allowed us to put a team on the field every week.  If it wasn't for the Society and members' donations, the likes of David Turnbull would be plying his trade elsewhere.

As Ropy says though only spend what you can afford.    

[superward]

3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

The recently released set of Club Accounts (year ending 31 May) shows that Les Hutchison was owed £994,00 (£1,469,000 last year) and John Boyle £210,00 (£280,000 last year).  Since then we've had Kipre's transfer fee and Les will be writing off more of his debt through his Double Your Money offer.   Taking everything into account, I'd guess that we will owe them somewhere in the region of £800k by the end of next month. So, progress is being made.

Thanks. Not to be sniffed at paying half a million off. Things moving in the right direction for sure but plenty to do. 

[covenanter]

3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

The recently released set of Club Accounts (year ending 31 May) shows that Les Hutchison was owed £994,00 (£1,469,000 last year) and John Boyle £210,00 (£280,000 last year).  Since then we've had Kipre's transfer fee and Les will be writing off more of his debt through his Double Your Money offer.   Taking everything into account, I'd guess that we will owe them somewhere in the region of £800k by the end of next month. So, progress is being made.

 

23 minutes ago, superward said:

Thanks. Not to be sniffed at paying half a million off. Things moving in the right direction for sure but plenty to do. 

Really! Why are these people still owed money? 

Can anyone give any example or know of any other clubs where once it’s sold to new owners  the original owner then gets any money they invested, wisely or not, during there time of ownership and also profit from future sales they had nothing to do with?

JB and Les are culpable for there choice and subsequent waste of transfer fees and silly wages. They chose to throw their money away.

Before I invest more in the Well Society I want the society to tell  these two they’ve  had enough money from this fan owned club .

 

[weeyin]

14 minutes ago, covenanter said:

 

Really! Why are these people still owed money? 

Can anyone give any example or know of any other clubs where once it’s sold to new owners  the original owner then gets any money they invested, wisely or not, during there time of ownership and also profit from future sales they had nothing to do with?

JB and Les are culpable for there choice and subsequent waste of transfer fees and silly wages. They chose to throw their money away.

Before I invest more in the Well Society I want the society to tell  these two they’ve  had enough money from this fan owned club .

 

Most clubs operate that way. i.e. loans rather than investments. It's not every club that can rely on dodgy financing from Russia or the Middle East.

If it wasn't for Les, there might not even be a club. He loaned us that money at zero interest and has continuously written off large chunks of it. Part of the deal was that he restructured the business operations of the club into a more professional and fiscally responsible outfit. Something that has reaped benefits in the short term and put us in good standing for the long term. He also added the incentive to boost the Well Society membership which, again, has made the club more sustainable.

Many clubs operate on bank loans or loans from investors, and the investors are either paid back from income and transfer revenue at preferential rates (like Dundee Utd) or the the loan is converted into shares at some point (like Rangers). Banks wouldn't touch us after our administration, so loans were the only way we could survive.

JB could have called in his entire loan and screwed us. Or worse, just sold Fir Park to Morrisons. The fact that he wrote off a huge chunk he was owed has also benefited the club.

So feel free to the tell the society what you like, but it sounds like you misunderstand how JB and, in particular Les, kept the club afloat and helped put us in the position of relative strength we are now. 

[stuwell]

43 minutes ago, covenanter said:

 

Really! Why are these people still owed money? 

Can anyone give any example or know of any other clubs where once it’s sold to new owners  the original owner then gets any money they invested, wisely or not, during there time of ownership and also profit from future sales they had nothing to do with?

JB and Les are culpable for there choice and subsequent waste of transfer fees and silly wages. They chose to throw their money away.

Before I invest more in the Well Society I want the society to tell  these two they’ve  had enough money from this fan owned club .

 

you’re so way off the mark your lack of understanding is farcical. Best you do some research before you post again on this subject. 

Heres a start for you 

club statement from Dec ‘14

Motherwell Football Club and the ‘Well Society can confirm that they have entered into a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with Mr Les Hutchison.
 

If the transaction set out in the MOU is concluded, Mr Hutchison will provide the club with working c apital finance, alongside the ongoing funding support provided by the Society, which has just provided another lo an totalling £100k to the club

 

This finance will take the form of an interest free loan, repayable over a maximum period of five years.

 

During that time the Society Board have committed to growing both membership numbers and funds in order to demonstrate that the supporter base is fully behind the concept of fan ownership.

 

Once Mr Hutchison’s loan has been repaid in full, it is anticipated the Society will become the ow ners of the club. Mr Hutchison will effectively act as facilitator for the transition of ownership of the club to supporters, provided there is clear evidence that more of our fan base is willing to support the initiative.

 

We have now entered a 30-day exclusivity period to enable financial and legal due diligence to be undertaken.

 

Mr Les Hutchison stated: “I look forward to working with the Society and the Club to help them achieve their objective of fan ownership and be financially sustainable within five years.”

 

Mr Brian McCafferty, acting Chairman of the Society, added: “We would like to sincerely thank Les for his generous loan to the club which has kept alive hopes of community ownership. We emphatically believe the partnership between Les and the society provides, by far, the best solution to both the club’s short-term financial needs and its long -term sustainability and success.”

 

[Brazilian]

Let’s keep it simple for the apprentice.

they owned the club

the well society purchased ownership  by ways of a repayment plan at preferential terms which include one of the creditors making significant contribution to the payments to himself.

Ps similar to , but at very much more favourable terms than say Man’ Utd

someone owned the club, someone bought the club, and used income to pay for the purchase.

[covenanter]

13 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Most clubs operate that way. i.e. loans rather than investments. It's not every club that can rely on dodgy financing from Russia or the Middle East.

If it wasn't for Les, there might not even be a club. He loaned us that money at zero interest and has continuously written off large chunks of it. Part of the deal was that he restructured the business operations of the club into a more professional and fiscally responsible outfit. Something that has reaped benefits in the short term and put us in good standing for the long term. He also added the incentive to boost the Well Society membership which, again, has made the club more sustainable.

Many clubs operate on bank loans or loans from investors, and the investors are either paid back from income and transfer revenue at preferential rates (like Dundee Utd) or the the loan is converted into shares at some point (like Rangers). Banks wouldn't touch us after our administration, so loans were the only way we could survive.

JB could have called in his entire loan and screwed us. Or worse, just sold Fir Park to Morrisons. The fact that he wrote off a huge chunk he was owed has also benefited the club.

So feel free to the tell the society what you like, but it sounds like you misunderstand how JB and, in particular Les, kept the club afloat and helped put us in the position of relative strength we are now. 

Both were owners not investors that’s why the sold the club and neither had clauses to say they would get their investments back.

However you give a strong case for continuing to give money to one who’s ego took the club into administration and who would have sold it to Asda if he could have and the other who could quite easily have done the same  with his reckless throwing about cash  with no regard for the future of MFC as seen by the way he couldn’t get out quick enough.

Personally I feel it should already have been addressed by the society. Ive already stated I won’t be giving more money to the society until these two have been told they’ve had enough for their time in as owners.

[ropy]

Wow!

[fizoxy]

The well society’s purchase of the club was contingent on paying those loans, and I’m sure it was done on more than just a handshake, so just refusing to pay them isn’t going to work.

If the parties involved decided to forgive them, that would be a different story, but I don’t see why they should.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kmcalpin]

18 minutes ago, fizoxy said:

The well society’s purchase of the club was contingent on paying those loans, and I’m sure it was done on more than just a handshake, so just refusing to pay them isn’t going to work.

If the parties involved decided to forgive them, that would be a different story, but I don’t see why they should.
 

Absolutely.  Legal agreements will have been signed and leaving all other issues aside, if the Society/club simply told Messrs Hutchison and Boyle to do one and they'd get no more cash, as Covenanter suggests, then expensive legal suits would inevitably follow and the club could go to the wall as a result. It would also be morally wrong to do so. 

[Yorkyred]

2 hours ago, covenanter said:

 

Really! Why are these people still owed money? 

Can anyone give any example or know of any other clubs where once it’s sold to new owners  the original owner then gets any money they invested, wisely or not, during there time of ownership and also profit from future sales they had nothing to do with?

JB and Les are culpable for there choice and subsequent waste of transfer fees and silly wages. They chose to throw their money away.

Before I invest more in the Well Society I want the society to tell  these two they’ve  had enough money from this fan owned club .

 

 I think that’s extremely unfair and shows a real lack of understanding. I really can’t see how refusing to invest in the well society is helping the club ?

[superward]

Oh dear. 

[Al B]

That's a really strong entry into any "extreme opinon on a topic you don't understand" competition.

Daily Mail reader...absolutely nailed on.

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, covenanter said:

Both were owners not investors that’s why the sold the club and neither had clauses to say they would get their investments back.

 

You are still confusing the sums of any money they invested versus the sums of money they loaned the club.

Until you understand that basic concept, the rest of the deal will remain a mystery. 

The loans were very much contracted to be repaid, and the terms that were in the contract are incredibly favourable to us.

[steelboy]

We have to pay them back but we should cut the very grateful act. Both of them fucked up the club due to poor management but it's our club so our debt to clear.

Boyle has made a fortune by ripping people off via administration law multiple times and Hutchinson is a Tory crank who spent his career shutting down local industry and moving it overseas. It's perfectly understandable that many of our fans don't want to pass their wages onto these two millionaires.

 

[weeyin]

40 minutes ago, steelboy said:

We have to pay them back but we should cut the very grateful act. Both of them fucked up the club due to poor management but it's our club so our debt to clear.

Boyle has made a fortune by ripping people off via administration law multiple times and Hutchinson is a Tory crank who spent his career shutting down local industry and moving it overseas. It's perfectly understandable that many of our fans don't want to pass their wages onto these two millionaires.

 

Then don't do it.

Just don't pretend that somehow that lending our club money at zero interest and only requiring a portion of it to be repaid is somehow "ripping us off".

And be happy the effort has turned us into a member owned socialist nirvana, comrade.

(But if you had a better idea on how we could have saved the club at its time of need, it would have been good if you had mentioned it at the time).